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Originally Posted by N0help4u

So you are saying that a guy that lived all his life gay came to God and asked God to change him, no pressure from the church, god doesn't change them?

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Yes, that's what I'm saying. That's not how God operates.

I had a boyfriend in high school - wonderful guy, loving, and a great kisser -- who married one of our classmates and had a daughter. In his 50s he finally acknowledged he is gay (and always had had those feelings, but wanted to fit into a straight world, is religious so am sure he prayed fervently to be straight), so he and his wife divorced but remain good friends. He's been with his male partner for ten years now.

I know loads of people like that. I know lots that DECIDED to turn gay. I know of some that turned to God and went straight

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Originally Posted by N0help4u

I know loads of people like that. I know lots that DECIDED to turn gay. I know of some that turned to God and went straight

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A person can't change his biology. He can act a certain way, but that doesn't change who he really is inside.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Then he wasn't gay in the first place.

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I have seen what you are saying loads of times. I have seen people DECIDE to turn gay. Least I Have seen a tiny percent that do .'overcome' their gay urge they had all their life by praying

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Originally Posted by N0help4u

I have seen what you are saying loads of times. I have seen people DECIDE to turn gay. Least I Have seen a tiny percent that do .'overcome' their gay urge they had all their life by praying

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I can decide to turn gay too. I can do that fifteen minutes from now. Doesn't mean I am gay, but just means I am living as a gay. My being straight is still my basic nature.

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Originally Posted by joypulv

Would you say he's not really a horrible person, just misguided?

(He was 4 when the organization was founded. I don't know when he became president. Although married with adopted children, he openly talks about being gay or struggling with it.)

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I haven't seen Alan in 40 days and 40 nights so I don't know. His parents were really nice people.

I thought he founded it but I haven't really looked into them much at all. I always thought they were a fluke every time I heard something about them. And I didn't even know Alan was involved. People are just sometimes misguided.

This could be it - the high school he went to was on Dyke Road. I think that solves the mystery.

Yes and that is why the gay community.has gotten as large as it has so many people claiming their gayness because they decided to 'turn gay'

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Originally Posted by N0help4u

Yes and that is why the gay community.has gotten as large as it has so many people claiming their gayness because they decided to 'turn gay'

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What?

I know a lot of people that claim they turned gay because they had too many bad experiences with the opposite sex. They never had the desire to be gay but ended up living totally in the lifestyle,

Even that reverend guy (Alan Chambers) is living in the closet of self-loathingness and regret.

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In January 2012 then- president of Exodus International Alan Chambers, during his address to a Gay Christian Network conference, stated that 99.9% of conversion therapy participants do not experience any change to their sexuality and apologized for the previous Exodus slogan "Change Is Possible".

Speaking to the New York Times in July 2012, Chambers talked about how he believed gay people can have gay sex and still go to heaven. "But we've been asking people with same-sex attractions to overcome something in a way that we don't ask of anyone else [with other sins].

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Also:

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Most of Exodus' leadership have successfully avoided controversy regarding their sexual identity for decades.

Michael Bussee, one of the founders of Exodus and Gary Cooper, a leader within the ministry of Exodus, left the group to be with each other in 1979.

Chambers says that he has mostly overcome his attraction to men (although he does speak openly about his own ongoing sexual attraction to men.

Chambers went on to tell the host (Michael Smerconish), that he has same-sex attraction and for anyone to say he does not have temptations, or that he could never be tempted, or does not have same-sex attraction is not true.

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I guess it seems like it's the same difference ad once an alcoholic always an alcoholic even though you haven't drank in 30 years and have no real desire to

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Originally Posted by N0help4u

I know a lot of people that claim they turned gay because they had too many bad experiences with the opposite sex. They never had the desire to be gay but ended up living totally in the lifestyle,

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You have had one-to-one conversations with all these people who have told you directly that they have decided to be gay? If not that, then how do you know this?

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Even that reverend guy (Alan Chambers) is living in the closet of self-loathingness and regret.



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For a Christian who is gay, this is a very difficult issue to struggle with. Alan's family's belief is that being gay is wrong and that gay people go to hell. Honestly what is a gay person supposed to do with those beliefs. I understand deeply why he had a difficult time with it. You can't just wish this away.

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Originally Posted by N0help4u

I guess it seems like its the same difference ad once an alcholic always an alcholic

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If you view homosexuality as a disease.

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Originally Posted by N0help4u

I guess it seems like its the same difference ad once an alcholic always an alcholic even though you haven't drank in 30 years and have no real desire to

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For a recovering alcoholic, the desire is always there. It's a daily struggle -- "one day at a time."

Not saying it's a disease alcohol was only made a disease for money reasons.

I'm glad for my friends sake that God is bigger than people's all or nothing categories.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

You have had one-to-one conversations with all these people who have told you directly that they have decided to be gay? If not that, then how do you know this?

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Yes my x sister in law her lover and her lovers daughter they all joked how they were going to turn gay and eventually did. My x sis in law did because she blamed her ex husband for their daughters death. Also many of my co workers and various others I have talked to over the past 15 years. I also know a lot of 'born that way gays'

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Originally Posted by N0help4u

I also know a lot of 'born that way gays'

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Me too!

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Not saying it's a disease alcohol was only made a disease for money reasons.

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As much as I and a lot of people have issues with the DSM and big pharma, I do agree that alcohol addiction is a disease.

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Originally Posted by N0help4u

I guess it seems like its the same difference ad once an alcholic always an alcholic even though you haven't drank in 30 years and have no real desire to

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I think this is a terrible comparison. I'm not going to even go into it. Awful.

Anything is possible. There is no proof that your orientation is genetics. I think it is a choice and when it is a choice, you can always choose the other side if you want to.