<<is it best to communicate and wait for indicators of interest from her (value in you) before you tell her that you like her ! (value in her) or tell her that you like her as an indication of interest (value ) from you first so that she will either view you in a partner way or reject you in a partner way >>

you do not have to tell her you like her. As I said before you need to be uncertain in the beginning, a woman does not like a man who tells her he likes her without even knowing who she is!!
Just ask her out simply like "we should go and have a coffee/drink sometime"
if she says ' no' then don't act upset , just change the subject.

usually if I like a guy who talks to me , I would not ask him out but if he brought up something that I have an interest in example music, I would tell him oh I know this good place etc, and usually he would say oh we should go some evening.

So perhaps next time you talk to a girl find out her interests and do that approach, you will be able to tell by her attitude if she is interested or not.Again for the third time today "CONFIDENCE IS KEY"

First of all, women do approach. I've been approached any number of times.

Now, as for the rest of it... of course you're of value. But if you expect everyone to think that, then you're in for a whole lot of disappointment in your life. Do you automatically put a high value on every single person you see on the street? That random person over there, the one you didn't even notice until I pointed him out to you... that's who you are to some people. That's who we all are.

It's always a roll of the dice when you approach someone. There's no way to change that. The thing is, how much value do you ascribe to them before approaching? The more of that you do, the more you think about them, the harder it will be to take a rejection. If it's just somebody that you look at and say 'Hey, she looks neat' and go say hi, and she tells you to sod off, all you've lost is those few seconds. Who is she to you? Nothing important, just some girl. It's when you've seen her, thought about her, agonized over asking her out, started fantasizing about the ensuing relationship... then you get devastated if she says no, because you have all of this emotional invested in something that hasn't even existed.

Don't wait to ask a girl out... just go out and do it. Rejection is only hard if you've built up an expectation of acceptance.

Here's a couple questions for you, Onlineguy, just to put it into a little perspective:

Have you EVER been approached by a girl? If so, did you automatically say yes just because she was interested in you?

If you haven't been approached by a girl... If a girl you don't know, but who has a class with you or something, approaches you, and is NOT your ideal woman (she's overweight, doesn't know how to dress, or stutters when she talks to you because she's so nervous, for examples)--Would you automatically say 'yes' because she has value? Or because she had the guts to ask you out? Remember... you don't know this girl at ALL. She's just someone you have a class with. You know NOTHING about her, but she likes you, and has just asked you out.

Do you see what I'm getting at? Just because guys have the guts to ask a girl doesn't mean they'll automatically be taken up on it, regardless of how cocky he is, or how much of a jerk. And while physical appearance isn't everything, if you don't at least talk to someone first, they're not going to know anything about you EXCEPT your physical appearance!

Basically... it's not necessary for either gender to ask someone out. But if you don't ask, you'll never know.

Following on somwhat from the other posts.
By Onlineguy
If a guy finds a girl physically atractive, aproaches her and ask her out. He in affect is letting her know that she is of high value to him. If she says yes great. But if she says no then the rejections is a statement of him being of low value to her. Nobody likes to be of low value.
Not true you cannot equate not being interested with no value.

Since women do not aproach and will only go for a guy who aproaches her, then she does not put herself in the position of rejection. But equally she may not get aproached by a guy who could be right for her.
Equally if a guy is to shy then he misses a chance to be with some who is right for him.

Also women act in an unaproachable manner, kind of a shield. They will shoot a guy down before getting to know him. Unless the guy is just being nice in which case they will see him as a friend. Resulting in rejection at a later date if he pursues a relationship.
I agree there are some people in the world who act like this and you just have to accept they exist and leave them alone if you can.

So in effect all of this relates to a guy having to show her value, and taking a roll of a dice !
There 's that value word again. We all have value but that doesn't mean people will be attracted or interested.

I don't know about you guys and girls out there, but without meaning to sound arrogant or full of myself, of which I am neither. I am of value ! I won't allow someone to say or treat me like I am not and I do not take kindly to someone showing, treating, or indicating that I am of no or little value. So I will not allow someone to be in such a position over me.
That's your personal convictions. You are entitled to them. Everyone has their own ideas as to their personal value.


( We don't allow this to take place in out work envioroment or our social envioroment so why in our pursuit of finding another to care for!! ).
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Surly the attraction should be 50 50. But how can it be if it has to rely on a man aproaching and the woman having all the power/ control... call it what you will.
It takes time to know what the attraction is, and where it leads to. You cannot assume anything until you take the time to get to know someone and evaluate your feelings in an honest healthy way.

I think more of someone who considers / treats me and shows me that my value is appreciated. If a woman rejects a man without giving herself a chance to know him, this is showing him lack of value and disrespect. Both unaceptable behaviour from a guy to a girl and from a girl to a guy!!
We call it life and we are all free to be with who we want. Because a female rejects your interest doesn't mean she is a bad person o lacks respect. This is more about your fear of rejection than how she feels. Personally I think when you say hello, and don't get the interest level you want then thats something a mature person has to deal with.

So what is the way to ask someone out without them being on such a higher value than you and being able to shoot you down, reject you.?
Hey, just be yourself and shoot your best shot, and accept it for what it is. Emotionally healthy people have no problem with taking the risk of life. Fear is not a good excuse for not trying.

(is it best to communicate and wait for indicators of interest from her (value in you) before you tell her that you like her ! (value in her) or tell her that you like her as an indication of interest (value ) from you first so that she will either view you in a partner way or reject you in a partner way ?
Those are the kinds of things that you have to find out for yourself as all you have to do is pay attention and stop assuming, and forget the value thing, because everyone sense of value is so different.

Is there a way to be with someone without the possibility of rejection ? Which I take offence at.
I suspect your fear of rejection has an effect as to what action you take in dealing with the opposite sex. It is no worse than anything else in life as the key to it is how you handle it and there is nothing like experience to teach us the nuances of life and how to deal with it.

No body likes rejection, even if it is done in a nice way. It makes you feel unatractive, undesirable and unwanted. Evan if only for a short time.

So you see a girl you like, friendly to them, talk to them and get to know them.

Problem is if you don't let her know you like her,she may see you as a friend, but if you do let her know you like her she may reject you.

What do people think the signs are that she likes you in a b/f sense, so that you can gage this before you ask her out ?

Any ideas ?

Quote from another post ! Femail poster.

"Yes, I have to find the man attractive but to me attractive includes how he carries himself, how he makes eye contact, how he interacts with others. I wouldn't go over to a man just because I thought he had good looking features".



You see, as a guy we do. If we find a girl hot physically then we have the emotional interest to go and talk to her. If we do not find her attractive physically then we will not have the emotional interest to go over and talk to her

? So if girls do not have the interest to talk to a guy even if she finds him physically atractive. What makes her have the interest in going to talk to him, to get to know him ? Or does this just not happen ?

Waaaaaay back when I was single (A long long time ago, in a galaxy far far away)...

I didn't turn guys down when they asked me out UNLESS:

1. I was dating someone else exclusively
2. They just asked me out with nothing specific in mind ("You just wanna hang out sometime" came across as lame--like the guy liked me but had no ideas of his own or just wanted to get into my pants so wanted me to choose what I liked so that he didn't have to do any work)
3. I had other plans for the time suggested
4. For whatever reason, I *really* didn't like the guy asking me out. Granted, the only times that happened, it was a female friend's ex, or a guy who had very poor personal hygiene, or one that I knew enough about to know that being alone with him for a couple of hours would make me stop being nice.
5. The guy came off as desperate. (That's scary)

Just ASK her already. I think the problem here is really that you feel THAT rejected by being turned down. Feeling that badly about it means that you've invested too much into a simple question. I agree that no one likes to be rejected... but seriously, you're just asking someone to spend time with you. Would you feel as badly if it were another guy that said "no, I'm sorry, I have plans"?

Yes, I really would just ask. I agree rejection it is painful - as someone who has recently been rejected let me tell you it is BLOODY painful - but I'm still glad I did it. Really. Because otherwise you'll never know, and you'll forever be kicking yourself and thinking 'What if' If she turns you down, that's it, end of story. But if you never pluck up the courage in the first place then it will go on and on and on leave you nothing but feelings of frustration. Ask. Because I'm sure she'd be delighted.

Have courage, take a deep breath and go for it. Best of luck.

OLG, Let me point out that fear of rejection or anything else is a personal problem to be overcome. I don't know if it's the many times I've been rejected, or the times that facing that fear and getting positive results is what got me over the hump, but its something that can be overcome. Just find your courage and just ask her. You may be missing some great dates unless you do.

I know girls that I like, I am friendly with them, but look for indications that they like me in more than just a friend way.

trouble is I do not apear to get these vibes, so I am reluctant to ask them out. Nobody likes to be rejected, not liked or their feelings not returned. It is showing another that they are of more value to you than you are to them.

To my mind it should be 50 50.

Any suggestions guys ?

(I guess I do not like the feeling of not being wanted, especially if I want the person a lot). What makes this harder is that I do not just wish to go out with anyone, but look for someone who I am very attracted to and who's personality I like.

Guess I have very high standards. The girls I go for, receive a lot of emotional interest from guys but you can't help who you like, can you ! ).

Have you ever tried asking one of them out?
Just do it confidently and with humour.

Whoa Nellie, for starters you are comparing apples to oranges here! You know your own feelings of desire well but you do not know other peoples' feelings nearly as well. People are private about such things so to say you are probing and don't find 50/50 has more to do with this skewed, bad science approach you are using than anything, I suspect.

Most people ask out who they are initially interested in and most people accept invitiations from whom they are interested in... with the goal to be getting to know each other better. Desire needs to be wisely tempered by that crucial getting to know process. There is no guarantee that who you like physically, or superficially will turn out on closer "inspection" to be someone you still desire. Now if you are wanting to ask someone you sense is "out of your league", then you have two choices -- let them go for more realistic possibilites or do what is necessary to get in their league!

This works the same way for everyone so---- invite who you like, weather a few rejections, get to know those who said yes, and above all else go slow!

I know girls that I like, I am friendly with them, but look for indications that they like me in more than just a friend way.
Usually if you are enjoying their company and they yours just ask.

trouble is I do not apear to get these vibes, so I am reluctant to ask them out.
Just ask or how will you know?
Nobody likes to be rejected, not liked or their feelings not returned.
If your enjoying each others company you are being liked, and if your friendly the feeling are being returned, if they are friendly. Believe it or not rejection may be disappointing , but you can live thru it. But if you let your fear rule you will never know whether you'll be rejected or not. Get over your own fear, as females have their own fears also.
It is showing another that they are of more value to you than you are to them.
It may start uneven but thats the fun of getting to know and like someone and sharing, and caring. Feelings grow.
To my mind it should be 50 50
Sounds good ,but seldom if ever is true as you must get to know a person over time first. You won't get anywhere expecting it to be automatic, thats something you work for, in a fun way.
Any suggestions guys ?
Your fear is holding you back so its up to you to get over it. Have courage and just do it.

(I guess I do not like the feeling of not being wanted, especially if I want the person a lot). What makes this harder is that I do not just wish to go out with anyone, but look for someone who I am very attracted to and who's personality I like.
We all want that
Guess I have very high standards. The girls I go for, receive a lot of emotional interest from guys but you can't help who you like, can you !
Maybe not but you can help what you do about it. How old are you anyway??

In the following I will use the term person to indicate men and women.


Guys as on observation I have noticed that people always want something that is of value. If it is not of value then it is not wanted.

Now in the arena of attraction (subconsious emotional, instintual reactions)

Contorversial bit ! For discussion.

Everyone of us is attracted to the Very good looking people. Men to supermodels and women to hunks. Now there have been countless studies done that verify that people response totally different to attractive people as opposed to unatractive people. (harsh but true)

Each one of us would if we had the chance date a supermodel or hunk ! (if you think of your ideal person, who you really fancy it will not be an unatractive person... that proves that point).

So I would say from observation and discussions that starting from the bottom up, so to speak.

A bad looking person will be very responcive to the emotional interest of a very good looking person. Good looking man gets bad looking girl to bed easily. Good looking girl get bad looking man running after her.

Same applies for a medium looking person and a good looking person.

Now in reality a bad looking person appears to be of no value to a very good looking person, or to a good looking person, or a medium looking person. But these people are of value to a bad looking person.

A medium looking person has no value for a bad looking person but has value for a good looking person and greater value for a very good looking person.

And so on for a good looking person.

======

Now since we always want something that is of value to us, a bad looking person is looking for a medium looking person, a medium looking person is looking for a good looking person and a good looking person is looking for a very good looking person.

Another convtoversial bit for discussion.

Now women will always be of slightly higher value than men because they have what men want sexually and don't need it as much as men. (they obviously want it as much as men).

So take a bad looking guy, trying to connect with a very good looking girl. He is of no value to her and because he is very far down her acceptable value scale she will reject him in a harsh way ! As will a good looking girl and a medium girl, but they will not reject him in such a cold or harsh way as they will appreciate the interest as shown.

Simaraly take a bad looking girl, trying to connec with a very good looking guy. She is of no value to her and because she is very far down his acceptable value scale he will reject her in a harsh way ! As will a good looking guy and a medium guy, but they again will not be as harsh as they will appreciate the interest shown. (Note also that the guys may use the interest of the girl for sex. It is still rejection just a harsher way).

This is why Very good looking people are total *****es / bas... d to less good looking people (opposet sex or not, as the same principle aplies to social conections as well as emotional, romantic connection)

====

Now if a medium guy tries to connect with a bad looking girl, he will quite often be able to sleep with her (hense the view unatractive girl are easier to bed). Because he is of value to her, as he is higher on her value scale.

But if he tries to connect with a medium attractive girl, she will instictivly be looking for good looking guy. But will not disreacard the medium guy totally because he is near her value scale. So for him to connect with her, he then has to demonstrate personality and value that will raise his value and his atractfullness to her to a point where she sees him as good looking.

Now if a medium girl tries to connect with a bad looking guy, she will quite easily get of with him because she is of value to him, she is higher up his value scale.

But if she tries to connect with medium looking guy, he will be instinctivly looking for a good looking girl. But he will not disreagard the medium girl totally because she is near his value scale. So for him to connect to her, she then has to demonstrate personality and value (sexual or not) so that will raise her value and her atractfullnes to the point where he sees her as good looking.

-=-=-=-

So a woman will only instinctivly iniate an emotional connection (relationship) with someone who is of value to her. She will only respond emotionaly and be receptive to the emotional interest of someone who is of value to her. Better looking on her value scale, or equal in looks, but high degree of personality demonstrated.

The same applieas to a guy.

-=-=---=-=


So if a guy aproaches a girl and she does not consider him of value. Ie up her emotional value scale then she will not entertain his emotional interest in him. The greater the gap the harsher the rejection.

A very good looking girl will fain disgust at a medium looking guys aroach, but not at a good looking guys aproach. But a medium looking girl will not fain disgust at a medium guys aproach. A bad looking girl will be open to a medium guys aproach.

Hense good looking people, whilst not necisarily better in relationship, have more opertunities for partners than do less atractive people.

-=-=

Summ: I hope I have not offended anyone with these obeservations, or my spelling.. lol.

I believe that the process of attraction is an instinctual emotional response and that women and men both go for looks, even thought they may not think it, simply because they have not stopped to think about it.

Now of course other factors do matter ! Status, personality, abuse, weath etc. the list goes on.

But if all other factors were excluded and a guy aproaches a girl or a girl aproaches a guy then the value of appearance is the overiding factor.


-=-=-

Questions: What makes a husband run of with a younger model... Looks.

What makes a girl humiliate a geek but go for a hunk who will sleep with her friends... Looks.

What makes a guy think ugler girls are an easy lay... Looks.

Why are good looking people used to sell products! A product is a product, your being asked to buy the product not the good looking person, so why is a good looking person used.

Why as phycologal epxeriments have show do we offer aid to good looking people but not to bad looking people.

-=-=-=

So I put it to all of you, that we all instinctivly go for looks above personality and we are only open to personality once the looks are acceptable.

*** Point to note: this changes as people get older and their own looks naturally deteriorate, so they view others on personality rather than looks. But we all should view others on personality not looks.

Perhaps this is natural selection in progress ! But for a person to say looks are not considered or are not more important than personality in selecting a mate, I believe they are lying to themselves.

( From my own personal experience, I would say I am medium looking, good looking women snub me, meduim looking women will fall for me, but with an effort from me and bad looking women will hit on me ). If looks do not play apart then all these women should view me near enough the same, I should be able to aproach a supermodel or an unatractive girl and get near enough simialar responses, since we are all human ! But none of us do... Why.. Looks matter

As a good looking man, I object to your insinuations!

Just kidding. I am hopelessly shallow...

But seriously, my friend, you're getting caught up in the semantics of your situation. Understandable - sounds like you went through some troubles that you don't want to lay at your own feet. The truth is you got yourself in this situation and itsn't because your ugly or even of moderate good looks - if those were the only thing at play then how on earth would the human population be where it is today (alcohol? )?

You have other issues at work. You can't control your looks, other than the basics of hygene and keeping in shape. Why worry about something which is out of your control? Work on what you CAN control. Your mental health, your personal out look, your intellect and your personality. These are things you can improve with effort and a positive outlook and believe it or not women WILL respond. You don't have to be Squarejaw Hunkenstein to attract a woman (thought it does help!). There's a girl, out there, who actually has you in mind when it comes to her 'type.' In fact, there's more than one! YOu just have to be a position to be receptive when the time comes. That means forgetting about all this looks and attractiveness bullcrap.

Good luck, my friend. Keep thinking and you'll come to the answers your need eventually but don't get caught up in worrying over things out of your control. Life is too short for that.

Quote:

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Life is too short for that.

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Are you kidding? Life is the LONGEST thing you will ever do!

To the real point... Anyone that believes that "looks don't matter" crap, you're only lying to yourself. This world has become to PC. Everyone is afraid they will offend someone else.

Looks do matter. Not only in relationships, but in all aspects of life. If you were a manager would you hire a dirty, unkept person or would you go for the attractive, clean person? I know I wouldn't hire a bum. (No offense to the homeless out there.) If you saw a pretty, blonde girl that had needed a dollar would you give it to her? Sure you would. How about that homeless person sitting outside the bar? I'm going to guess the answer is no. Why? "because he'll only spend it on booze or drugs" Did I get that stereotype correct?

We enter a relationship because we are initially attracted to a person physically, not because they "have a great personality". The animal kingdom works the same way, so this should be nothing that is new or surprising to anyone. There is an Alpha male, he is the toughest of all the males. He is the one that gets the ladies.

There is nothing wrong with being attracted with someone because they are attractive.

Onlineguy, you make fabulous statements. Keep up the great observations. You could go down in history someday!

Look life all about chances, and everyone gets rejected that's a part of life. If you don't take a chance whether your getting vibes or not I guess you'll never know right?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by onlineguy

I am medium looking,

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That made me laugh really hard. For some reason I thought that would make a great T-shirt.

I personally think I'm higher ugly or lower medium looking.

Looks may matter, but they also don't matter, it depends on the person and it also depends on you. When I first met my boyfriend I wasn't all that interested in him. I wasn't attracted to him right off, he's got a belly, :p even a few of my friends think I'm "too pretty" for him, which makes me upset because I wish they could see him as I see him----a super hot man! A lot of that looks bullsh** fades when you get to know someone and see them for who they are, what they're made of and that's what really matters. Looks are nice, yeah, but when someone knows they're good looking they kind of suck because they can come off as conceited. Not every good looking person is like that, but a lot are. Confidence in yourself (no matter what you look like) shows a lot more than just knowing you're a good looking individual.

I think how you present yourself, and how you perceive yourself matter more in the long run.