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Are you still here? Get on the road.Quote:
Originally Posted by shazamataz
I don't know about the possession charge. How can you find who all has the photo? If it's on a phone you're outa luck.
Let me repeat, don't assume how much the Mom is aware of. She may know and feel helpless, or be clueless, either way.
I have read recently where both the one making the porn, as well as those in possession of the porn, and those viewing and sharing the porn, can all be charged. No matter what the age.
It is likely that you will never know how many people have viewed the picture(s), as it would be forwarded to others.
That is one of the things that bother me, is the risk taking behaviour of this girl.
Good luck in your trip to find answers Shaz.
Unfortunately we don't have the money right now to drive there until next weekend, otherwise I would be there in a heartbeat.
Grr I just wish there was a way to erase a certain photo from everyone's phones, a self destruct of sorts!
I wouldn't want the kids with the photo to be charged... a stern talking to or a warning yes, definitely, but I wouldn't want a record on my conscience... unless they had deliberately forwarded it on to people.
Of course they deliberately forwarded it on to others, shaz. A teen with a photo on their phone like that, what do you think is going to happen. I can't see them erasing it out of pity for another teen.Quote:
Originally Posted by shazamataz
Yes, it is child porn, so you got a lot to get around in this situation and at this point it just can't be swept under the carpet. Too much has already happened.
Given this young person's track record, as you have explained it, nothing is going to make a difference, she is on a role with all of this attention.
Tick
More then likely this is what could happen. The evidence is found and the one she gave / sent it to might get charged and the word will spread like wildfire and those that have it will erase it and go into complete denial. The longer it has been out there the further it could have went. But if it leads to the 18y/o getting charged with something so be it. It will send a strict example into your community that this type of behavior is unacceptable. No 18 y/o needs to be having anything to do with a 13 y/o unless its his sister. What I would be worried about is that if she was told it won't go anywhere and then she is approached or blackmailed into doing something else. That is why you need to hold true to your heart and help this girl through this struggle.Quote:
Originally Posted by shazamataz
Hello:
Let me jump in here. A kid sending a picture of another naked kid to a buddy is NOT child pornography. It's not nice. It's rude. It's embarrassing. It's juvenile. But, it ain't a crime. Real child pornography, on the other hand, where children are indeed, exploited, is a major offense punishable by YEARS in prison and LIFELONG tracking. It's a crime designed to put dirty old men away.
That ISN'T what this is. This is KIDSTUFF! It ain't great kidstuff. But, it ain't a crime. Now it's true. The law hasn't yet made the distinction I just did. Therefore, you must. However you handle it, don't call the cops. They won't make any distinctions.
excon
Hi ex, well then who teaches the kids a lesson ? Who is the one that gets punished for distributing the picture over the net ? It has to be the oldest member of the teens who are doing it. Whoever has it on their cell phone may not be liable, but that pic is going to stick around. Teens will be commenting on that pic, going back to it and looking for a long time yet. So you have to know it is going to end up on some dirty old man's computer file so he can ogle it anytime he wants.
I say absolutely 'kidstuff' can be as harmful as any dirty old men. I also know absolutely you know what you are talking about, that is irrefutable.
I do agree on not calling the cops, I think I said that in my first post. Talk about a can of worms being opened up, this has to take the cake !
Tick
Here is where we come to a point of disagreeing. Yes I agree there is such a thing as kidstuff. But if the 18 y/o was the one that convinced or coerced the 13 y/o to take the picture or took it himself then at a minimum its contributing to the delinquincy of a minor. So yes a crime is being committed. And if his intent was to get himself off and to share it with others then it crossed the line into child ponography because an "adult" was involved. If that line isn't drawn then where would it stop?Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
There is a law against cyber-bullying... includes camera phones.. texting threatening or sexual remarks to one or more people. It also includes anything sent on a computer which is detrimental to a child's well being .Quote:
Originally Posted by califdadof3
If the kid showed the picture to the brother at school or any other school function... or if the boy does show the picture at school... it is a crime.:)
It breaks the zero tolerance code. Do you have this in the schools there Shaz?:confused:
Hello again, dad:Quote:
Originally Posted by califdadof3
I don't think we disagree. I'm not for pedophilia. I don't support child pornographers. I think sex offenders and child molesters should be in jail. Where we disagree, if we do, is at what point does one bring in the authorities...
In the scenario under discussion, there is a lot of rumor, supposition, guessing, stuff we can't be told, and probably some gossip too. In short we don't KNOW anything. In fact, you're the one who used the magic word "IF" above. I didn't use it. You did.
I'm simply suggesting that until we KNOW he did anything, the line that we both agree is there, has not been crossed.
excon
I think you can see in my posts that what I support is intervention. I didn't mention police. I did mention possibly CPS because of the fathers behavior. And possibly from the current situation. But I believe this thread was started on the premising question of " should I get involved". And I was offering my opinion as to why. As far as I know ex you're a stand up person. And I have no reason to believe otherwise. Im just throwing out there the different levels this can go to and why. Also Im giving my support to intervention. Im not there. So its not up to me to call the shots on this one. But that is left for the OP to choose.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Hi Excon... I think we all need to just think of this little girl right now. Shaz will do the right thing and maybe this child will be safe. I think I could kill with bare hands anyone who who would ever hurt one of my children or grandchildren.
When Shaz finds out more then we'll know how far this has gone. Right now we need to pray for all of them and if anyone doesn't believe in prayer than just keep a good thought for her. Hugs to you Excon:)
And time goes on, and a naked 13 year olds body is in a picture being passed around, and there is the question of rape, that she told her brother about.
For those two facts alone, the only one I'm saying a prayer for is that little girl.
We all want the best for this little girl. I think Shaz will do what needs to be done. This child really needs them and she really deserves adults who will stand up for her. The picture really bothers me and if he keeps showing it around, this child will face a whole lot more problems.:(Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake2008
I just read this shaz, wow, sorry to hear this has been happenng.
I'm sorry I haven't been able to read the other posts, still not feeling well... but has anyone sat down with the daughter and talked to her?
/
Seeing as she has already cried rape before, there must be something happening in her life to need the attention she is crying for.
Does the mother know that the father lets his 13 year old drink and smoke? If so why does she let her go over there?
I tthink Shaz is going to find out all this and then she'll know what to do.You're right Bella what kind of parent doesn't see what's happening!:confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurora_Bell
Probably. If they found out who took it, that person would probably get the added charge of creating and/or distributing child pornography.Quote:
Originally Posted by shazamataz
Let's hope they find out.Quote:
Originally Posted by hheath541
At this point, the focus needs to be on the girl and her family. If the boys involved with this photo end up being collateral damage, so be it.
I don't mean to sound harsh, but who CARES? They did something I'm sure they knew was wrong. They knew exactly who the picture was of. They are obviously intentionally showing others, and revealing her identity. They are active participants in possible destroying this girls life. Who CARES if they end up getting in trouble in the process of making sure this girl is OK?
A 16 year old boy and his 15 year old girlfriend were both charged for possession and distrubuting child pornography here in NS. She sent him a pic of her through pic mail.
The girl is all that matters. Thirteen is a hard age anyway and now she has to go through all this. I hope the boys do get in trouble. But for the girl the damage is already done.. I agree heath.. It's the girl who matters most!Quote:
Originally Posted by ;
Ya I agree to, with pic's like that circulating, it's going to be hard for her to recover from that, especially as she gets older. Not only in her personal life but it may effect her in getting jons etc...
The person distributing is just as guilty as the other two participants. But the girl really is the victim. She is 13. Something deeper is going on. Something mentally. In my opinion.
Let me say this again. All Shaz has to go on is hearsay. 75% of what has been posted is based on speculation about the hearsay. We can help best by waiting until facts are known. Then we can be the world's best international legal research team.
We're with you, Shaz. Eager, even.
I agree Bella.. Poor kid !Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurora_Bell
Sorry for the lack of updates, we are trying to find out as much information as possible.
Have talked to the family in question and surprisingly there was no yelling, no hanging up on each other. (they are notorious for that)
It was only a brief conversation but the mother does want to discuss it further, seems the family who live close aren't being as supportive as we would have hoped so she is actually glad someone is taking an interest and wants to hear her side of the story.
The daughter doesn't know we have talked to her mother yet and we are keeping it that way for the moment, might be talking to her tomorrow but we will play it by ear.
I am getting second hand information still as it was V who phoned her.
I am glad the mother is open to talking. I hope when it comes to it, the daughter is too.
You're all in my thoughts and prayers.
We are thinking of you Shaz.
We are thinking of you Shaz. You have a heart of gold. Too many people don't want to get involved when they hear of something like this. Thank goodness she has you... :)
It's all too easy just to walk away and pretend you never heard about it, especially when they live so far away, but that's not something we wanted to do.
I'm glad we had everyone here to help talk us through it, what we should and shouldn't do, I really do thank you all for that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shazamataz
If anyone can do it.. You all can.. :)
I'm just glad it's being addressed. I know I didn't really put much of an in put in, but it is really refreshing to hear that you are willing to help someone with this type of troubles.
I really do feel for the 13 year old here.
True.. Bella!Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurora_Bell
Sometimes we really don't know what to say until we start typing. Then it all comes out. Bella, I know what you mean.
Off topic but wanted you to know there is a purebred rescued Collie at our animal shelter, two years old, needs a good home. She doesn't look to good right now though (I don't care), she was so flea ridden they had to shave her down. You can imagine how funny she looks !I am going to see her tomorrow with my son. Apparently she is a treasure and I also hope she isn't gone cause I can't get there until tomorrow.
Another topic, Bella, I hear they are doing laser spaying now which is great, less invasive. Of course adopting means you pay for and adopt an animal, show if she isn't spayed, she will be.
Hugs
"No" to what? No to reporting this? "No" to Shaz being kind hearted and helping this child? Or "no" to it being a horrible mess? Whatever you are saying "no" to, you need to explain yourself a little better. Or not get involved. I think you are a child yourself so... behave.Quote:
Originally Posted by Unsure_11
Shaz, You are privy to child pornography and abuse. It's not a matter of IF you should get involved somehow, it's HOW and WHEN. I'm sorry that this has fallen into your lap, but you know that the welfare of this child is paramount. Now, how do you deal with it? What exactly does the mother know? And how much is she willing to share with the authorities concerning her ex-husband's neglect and contribution to the corruption of a minor, his daughter? His interaction with this child should stop, now. And as far as the 18 year old, he should be investigated.
God bless you all.
All we've got to go on here is third hand, Mike. A question that wasn't asked is how sure is the brother of the pictured girl's identity. This is why I keep cautioning Shaz and V to not make assumptions. The entire family could possibly be duped by teenage drama, or we could be facing incestuous rape. We don't know. Shaz, you've got my e-mail if you or V or the child needs somebody to address a rant to in private. It will stay private.Quote:
Originally Posted by jmjoseph
I haven't read all the posts so if I missed something, sorry. Please don't shoot me. ;)
Shazzy, speaking from experience, I really wish someone had questioned my behavior, had seen it for what it was, talked to me, gotten involved.
My parents didn't know what I was doing, I was very good at hiding things. Other family members did know and they did nothing. They swept it under the rug and just hoped I'd get over it, get used to it, grow up and stop what I was doing.
I was molested as a child and raped as a teen. Because of that I slept with anything that moved and had a penis. I didn't give a damn about myself. It sounds to me like that's what you're dealing with.
Crying rape, even if there was no rape, is a call for attention, but it's not always because the girl is just needy. I would bet that there's something going on here and no one has bothered to get to the truth of the matter. This girl is screaming for help, you see it, that's why you're asking this question.
If you do get involved this will be the hardest thing you've ever done. It will drain you physically and mentally and it may well end badly where her parents are concerned. The fact is, nothing worthwhile is easy.
You have it in your power to help this girl. I would be there by your side if I could. I can't, but I'm here if you have any questions, need any advice, or just need a shoulder. Sadly I've been this girl, and I lived to tell about it. Let's make sure she does too.
That's my advice. :)
True, but I have to add, where there's smoke, there's usually fire. Something is going on, it's just that nobody knows for sure what it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Catsmine
I did see that many people told Shazzy not to get involved. I understand why, I really do, but I can't agree with it. Why you may ask? Because I was that child. No one bothered to step up, to butt in, to ask question, to offer help. They all figured it wasn't any of their business. Truth told, I probably would have told them all off anyway, but now, at 39, I can't help but wonder what my life would be like now if someone had just cared enough to get involved, to find out what was going on with me.
I'm not the kind of person that sees someone getting robbed and just walks away because it's "none of my business". I'm the person that steps up, even knowing that I may get hurt, because I know I have to do it.
No, it's not really Shazzy's business. Yes, getting involved will make things hard. But, is it the right thing to do? Isn't every person we encounter important, worthy of our help?
Sorry to disagree here, I just see so much of me in this girl. No, I never cried rape, even though I was raped. But I did give off many signs that something was wrong. No one stepped in. No one intervened. I got lucky, I found it in myself to heal, to move on. Most people aren't as lucky.
Even third hand is worth looking into is it not, Andy?Quote:
Originally Posted by Catsmine
If this child is drinking and smoking, the father is not very involved in her life.
A sibling confided in Shaz, and it should be investigated at the least. That's all I was suggesting. Not a raid.
Shaz knows this family well enough as to be here asking for assistance. And she knows that the father is not known to be responsible.
Maybe it is just attention seeking. Maybe it's being read all wrong. I hope it is. But what if it isn't? This is a child. And she is "dating" an 18 year old.
Tough call. I'm not envious.
Well I am just glad the mother is open to conversation. She needs support too in all of this and how to protect her daughter. .
I am so happy that Alty posted here as well. Gives a lot more insight to what could be going on here.
Abuse, especially at a younger age does so much harm. Like Alty said too is that children or teens can be very good at hiding it too, but the actions of that being abused can change so drastically and many parents have no clue what is going on.
One thing I want to point out is this. Yes, I hid it, but not overly. I wanted to be caught on some level. I wanted someone to say "hey, why are you doing this?" I wanted to talk about it, but I had to be asked to open up, I couldn't do it on my own. No one ever called me on my actions, not one person. Like I said, I got lucky, I found a great guy and he was the reason that I learned to love myself as much as he loved me. It's so hard to explain.
It's not an easy situation, for anyone, least of all the child. It's so hard to say "I was molested, I was raped". My parents went to their graves never knowing, I kept it to myself and the people that knew did so as well.
I wish I could express myself better, express exactly how it feels, but it's not easy. Maybe it's for the best. I wouldn't wish my experiences on anyone.
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