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Originally Posted by Hopeless Mom

The hard part is the hatred with which he has separated himself. I'm told that it's what some kids do. I'm also told that sometimes the closer they feel to you, the more they need to desacrate the bridge to you in order to assure themselves that they can't return so they can convince themselves they are on their own.

I can look back and wish I had done more to try to overcome his lack of empathy for people. It didn't spring up overnight. He's always been this way.

I see kids being difficult with their parents and want to step in and say, "make sure to take him to a soup kitchen to help out so he gets a sense of pride from goodness and giving back. Help him know and appreciates how blessed he is."

I thought I had made that effort with my son. I see that I didn't do it enough to make a difference.

I know there is nothing further I can do to mold my son's character and I look positively at the fact that he can stand up on his own two feet and be independent. Even if he doesn't appreciate the efforts it took to make him that way, I know in my heart it was my doing.

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There are a lot of posts similar to yours about kids basically disowning their mom or parents when they get in their 20's and revise history in their head and to anybody who will listen to make mom and/or dad look horrible. I hear a lot of adults even older talk about how they were phsyically abused with broken arms and all by mom or dad and half the time I don't believe them.
The fact is that you could have done every single thing right and even moved mountains for him but he doesn't get it he is looking at things from some sort of self centered perspective where he feels you are the villain and he is the victim.
Only time and him coming to his senses can change this.

IF he ever does come to you to ask for help like borrowing money tell him that you two have to talk things out in a mature way before you even consider thinking about helping him out. If you just help him out he will only be there in your life long enough for his hand to be out and then bye-bye.

Good advice! I've been concerned with an appropriate response to him. That's a very viable one.

And I appreciate your comment about vilification. According to my son, I'm a wicked detestable villain! When he was young, he fell on his roller blades and bumped his head. In his mind, that was a concussion, and somehow, my fault!

The only other injury he sustained in his entire life occurred when he was intoxicated and fell off a bar stool, splitting his head open!

You know how you hear of strange coincidences of connectivity between loved ones... I was in Alaska on vacation. My thoughts turned to my son and I called him just as the doctor was stitching him up.

I'm sure if I hadn't been thousands of miles away on vacation at the time, it would have been my doing as well! (LOL!)

Thanks!

[QUOTE=Hopeless Mom;1858409]Jake2008- I so appreciate your support. Just knowing that another person understands is a blessing! I know you can't fix this. If I can help you in your struggle, I'd be happy to try.

Thank you. I do know what you are going through, as I reached the same crossroads a short time ago. It was the most difficult thing I have ever done in my life, to accept that, there will be no further change, and hope for one no longer exists.

To fight the good fight so to speak, and move mountains out of the way to have and see progress was not a wasted battle, because what I have now is better than it would have been, had I not done what I had to do.

Sorry to talk in circles, but it is nearing that place for you now, and I think taking that personal inventory of what you've done to raise your son, against what can no longer be, as the result of all that hard work, is really, really difficult to accept.

But, you'll get there, and feel a little comfort in knowing that you can let go of the guilt, which women seem to have for their children in super sized doses! I know I sure did.

And you have already helped me. By offering what I know to be the truth to you, from my own experiences, I was forced to think about history between my daughter and myself, and I didn't break down. And, I thank you for that.

I joined this site last night and wrote a huge post on thei thread which never appeared. H mum and Jake I am in exactly the same position.

But when I look baldly at the facts, of the three sons this eldest 28 year old who is 'recreating me' as a total villain was always tricky and hard work 'special' ! Rewarding and fun and also periodically hell.

There are people - like my x husband who through a relationship never really forgive anything , just build up a bag full of grudges from when you may not have got it quite right. At the same time they have no bag full of joys at the things you did which were wonderful.

Your posts have been so very helpful.

We did our very best. Perhaps they would be serial killers or burglars if we hadn't. At least they are independent adults - with us as scapegoats for every inadequacy or fear the ouside world gives them. Not a role we need.

At base I am broken hearted about it. All this talk about apron strings etc on the thread is just not relevant to this problem. It is much deeper and more disrespectful and violating than that. I never wanted a Liberace! The other two I don't see much of because they are busy making their own lives . I'm proud of that. But when they contact me - which they do regualrly, they are loving and respectful.

I think because my eldest has had problems he is now perhaps a bit ashamed of having needed me so much at times in the past, but his way of dealing with that is disgraceful. I have only ever hleped him when he has asked - never smothered or interfered . It's not in my nature to do so.

No its wrong , utterly heartbreaking and rather obscene. But we did our best. And though even in their kindness I think a lot of people on this thread don't fully understand , their words are still correct. We just have to put them away now.

Others don't know how final that is likely to be given their selfish detatchment and it is no easy decision. We know it will probably be for ever.
In their insulting violence they are the ones not letting go. We have to cut that away and it will take huge courage because I am quite sure mine won't come back in any shape or form. If anyone knows him I do.

My husband is a selfish detached man who has let me go afte 28 years without a backward glance. My son has half of his genes and that for a role model The outlook is poor.

But for me... and thank you so much for sharing your grief. It has to stop. I can take no more humiliation and must face blame and blanket rejection from a human bieng I gave life to and unconditionally gave my life to. My conscience is clear.. his won't be.

It is the death of hope which is hard to face. To call it cutting the apron strings is just insulting. We did that years ago. It is the end of a sacred human relationship and of the hope of normal civilised behaviour from one whose love and respect should be a law of nature. But I am facing it rather than be humiliated any longer.

I too live alone with a chronic medical condition and full time work. BUT there are so many better things to do out there than grieve over a lost cause.

If he comes back? No I will never give him money or things again. He took me for a total ride before dumping me this year. Then accused me angrily of helping him too much and is now sponging off his father whom he has sworn hatred to this last 4 years. If he requires anything from me in he future I will not have it available I will be the kindly nodding smiling granny figure and keep my cards to my chest.

He has sacrificed the right to any of the adult and trusting relationship I have with the other two. I could never trust him again. This is the second time he has vilifired and rejcted me in 10 years . I have to learn. It is so over. There is a world out here and realistically my kids are no longer the centre of it no matter what. I am not being shafted and slandered into the bargain.

We made a very good polyester purse out of a sows ear. The very best we could do with what we were served up with. Time to let go and stop hurting.

Love Eglantine

That was very well written.

How true that eventually you need to see the 'child' as a grown up person, responsible for their own lives, regardless of what the life they choose is.

I know myself that while Doctors and Pyschiatrists and lawyers and all the other third parties were involved, it was far from a simple 'cutting the apron strings', although how I wished it would have been that simple.

Even with all that makes that person who she is, there is still no less love in your heart for them, it really was just seeing that the end of the road branched off and decisions had to be made.

A life is too short not to live it.

Good call Jake

Dear Eg-

Well said!

Unfortunately getting past rejection by the hand of your own child is at best a roller coaster ride. I have days of "who cares"... he's an adult and not the center of my life, and in an instant what I think is a balanced perspectve can be trigered into grief by a child playing in the park who reminds me of him, or by passing a place where we had a fond memory.

I simply try not to think about it and try to find joy in other parts of my life. Not easy to do when arthritis impedes the sports activities I enjoy and because I have no family other than my son.

Since you have other children, there may be a sense of loss he'll feel at not participating in family activities like the holidays. Unfortunately, while he may want to be present in your life again because he may feel he is missing out, his attitude is likely not to change.

I go from "make the effort to communicate because he's my child and how can I give up on him" to "leave him alone, and good riddance." I am totally at a loss for which way is the right way. I've kind of resolved that whatever I do is the right way or the wrong way because there are positives and negatives to be said for both. I can only pray that god forgives me if I'm doing it wrong, because I surely don't have the answer.

I just keep trying to reassure myself that I did the best I knew how. If he can't feel my love in that, or can't feel love and respect for me, there is simply nothing I can do about it. It's the most painful thing I have ever faced.

I wish you abundant good luck in coming to peace with your situation.

H Mom

I think we all have those days.
I know I do.
My son who is the nearest to me geographically will think I don't care about him when I really do. He seems to think I give the others attention when actually it is that I hardly ever get to see them and never know quite when I will see them again.
Then often when I do see them I feel so numb because it hurts remembering they were the one that was learning to ride a tricycle and now it is the grandbaby on the tricycle.
Some days I just can't function because I am so not use to hearing them.
I have the extremes too. One minute feeling I need to hear them the next feeling hopeless and like what's the use.
The only comfort I have sometimes is that they ALL turned out to be great kids.

If it's any consolation to you, I'm sure Eg, Jake and myself would give our right arms to be in your circumstance!

You have children who have not rejected you full of hatred and severed you from their lives.

Your children have moved on. That was the way you intended it, wasn't it? I'm sure you did everything you could to enable them to be independent, and now they are. It's not the absence that is so painful to Eg, Jake and I, (and ladies please forgive me if I'm assuming too much), it's the loss of love that our children are conveying to us.

Lead a joyous life. Find the activities that inspire you, now that you no longer have your time taken up by your family's needs. You've done the job of parenting well. You have children who despite their absence, care about you and your welfare. The one who lives near you still feels connected with you or he woud not be envious of your concern for the others. The rest are living productive lives and you still have a bond with each of them. You are very lucky.

H Mom

Yeah I agree. I am just saying that the mere fact that kids do grow up and move out can be hard enough and then for them to turn on you must be 100 times harder.

No one promised me a rose garden but they didn't tell me I'd have to sleep on a bed of thorns! :-)

I'm trying to dust it with powder so I can appreciate the blooms once again!

Thanks for your encouragment.

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Originally Posted by Hopeless Mom

Dear Eg-

Well said!

Unfortunately getting past rejection by the hand of your own child is at best a roller coaster ride. I have days of "who cares"....he's an adult and not the center of my life, and in an instant what I think is a balanced perspectve can be trigered into grief by a child playing in the park who reminds me of him, or by passing a place where we had a fond memory.

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Hopeless mom this is what I struggle with the most.I can be "BALANCED" and think I'm glad he's doing this and he's an adult etc etc. then it all goes out the window the next.

This was the latest,Saturday I was driving with my wife and we see a car on the side of the road for sell that looks like my sons so jokingly we said hey look he's selling his car at the same time I look in my left hand door mirror and my son is coming right by me no wave nothing than he just speed up to not get caught at the light

My wife isn't his mom but she's done so much for him and she is just a innocent victim of his and mine conflict its another issue I have to live with

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hopeless Mom

Dear Eg-

Well said!

Unfortunately getting past rejection by the hand of your own child is at best a roller coaster ride. I have days of "who cares"....he's an adult and not the center of my life, and in an instant what I think is a balanced perspectve can be trigered into grief by a child playing in the park who reminds me of him, or by passing a place where we had a fond memory.

I simply try not to think about it and try to find joy in other parts of my life. Not easy to do when arthritis impedes the sports activities I enjoy and because I have no family other than my son.

Since you have other children, there may be a sense of loss he'll feel at not participating in family activities like the holidays. Unfortunately, while he may want to be present in your life again because he may feel he is missing out, his attitude is likely not to change.

I go from "make the effort to communicate because he's my child and how can I give up on him" to "leave him alone, and good riddance." I am totally at a loss for which way is the right way. I've kinda resolved that whatever I do is the right way or the wrong way because there are positives and negatives to be said for both. I can only pray that god forgives me if I'm doing it wrong, because I surely don't have the answer.

I just keep trying to reassure myself that I did the best I knew how. If he can't feel my love in that, or can't feel love and respect for me, there is simply nothing I can do about it. It's the most painful thing I have ever faced.

I wish you abundant good luck in coming to peace with your situation.

H Mom

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Thanks H Mom You said it all there - except that a another exquisite complication here re the son we have talked about is that he is now taking further' regenge: ( for what I still do not know) on me by trying to manipulate the other members of the familhy. He has seriously annoyed my other 2 sons by campaigning against me me... but I don't know - some of it will reach its mark. It all hurts in any case. He also is now sponging from my X husband having spent 3 years swearing his undying hatred of him, I loathe my X but would never try to prevent his sons form having a relationship with him. However thte hypocrisy of this just cheeses me off. He took me apart 2 months ago for having 'spoilt him. 'given him too much opportunity and things' Havng trashed me he turns to his father after 2 years estrangement and gets a £500 camera out of him by way of saying hello. I do wonder what I have spawned here!

Is your son infuenced by a psycho girlfriend as mine seems to be? He seems to have become her crazy mouthpiece no more !

I am newly divorced , financially compromised and working every hour god sends aged 59... like I need this!! I am making new friends having had to abandon my previous community thanks to my husband's slanders.. . like I said before - we are dealing with a mix of genes here... and negative male role models no matter how much unconditional love we piled in as compensation

My best wishes to you for strength in this - I so understand your dilemma. I guess I am experimenting with a compormise between the two things you consider Druing his now rare phonecalls I just listen and do not get involved. I wish him well and say that I look forward to the next news form him. I don't break off with him. I do not speak my hurt and anger . When /if he calls me... I respond nicely but for the foreseable future he will get nothing more from me... just to then have abause piled on me. I refuse to confront him - hw will just cash in on this. But passively, if he tries to get anything else out of me if he wheedles back onto better terms with me... H Mom I just 'won't have it' even if I have.

My heart goes out to you... in this weird day and age so much has not turned out as those of our generation had hoped. And yes I weep over those tricicles. Hold the good memories and know you are a good mum and always will be. Love is never lost.

Love Eglantine

I don't know if I can give you any "suggestions" or not. Your son had a rough childhood, beset with physical and emotional issues ; through no fault of his own and, despite what he and his father may claim, certainly through no fault of your own. Just as you didn't cause his problems, I doubt that you can do anything towards helping them now. You say he's seeing a psychiatrist. I'm sure a lot of people would suggest that in a case like this. Whether that'll help or not, nobody can really predict. In order for it to help I think that he'd have to be willing to face his issues but it sounds like he's in denial right now. So right now I think that you just have to accept things as they are, painful though it may be. Time may have a way of making things right so keep the faith and rest knowing that you did right by him as his mother, regardless of what he and his father may think.

I know coming from a divorced home as I was growing up I went through mixed emotions for both parents I went from worshipping my Dad to thinking he was a complete waste of space back to thinking maybe he knows a thing or two same with mom going from this is all her fault I see why Dad left her to this poor woman she went through so much and I'm 43 they split up when I was 8 so I'm thinking that's just the vicious cycle of divorce blame,denial,acceptance and we never really know which one our kids are in at any particular moment all we can do is listen<if they give us a opportunity> and continue to be the best person WE can be,I haven't followed through yet but I would like to help a single mother. Or mentor a boy from a broken family , or do some volunteering to help me makes since of this and to feel better about it.one thing for sure I have NO control over my sons thinking about ME.

Eg-

I hear your pain. You're correct in your consideration of the "genes" that comprise his character. It is abundantly painful to have to face the unfullfillment of our character expectations for our children. Yours seems to have mastered manipulation along the way. I doubt that you're the only person who sees it.

Divorce is an unfortuante circumstance for families because it often divides loyalties, despite the efforts one party or the other takes to maintain nuetrality with their children. It takes the conscious effort of both parents to prevent malignment. Your son is old enough and independent enough to use the rift between you and your ex to his advantage... which he could be seeing as material gain vs an emotional connection. His "parental unit" has splintered and he is reacting by playing the sides. If he can get a rise out of you with his behavior, he can pay you back for disturbing his peace. After all, in his "me" centered universe, you should have stayed in your failed marriage for his personal comfort.

If I were in your shoes, I'd send him a letter and it would say something like the following:

Dear Son,

I'm writing to you because I see by your recent behavior toward me that you are having a problem with your father and my divorce. I want you to know that I am entitled to a happy life and I was not achieving it by remaining with your father. He and I see life differently. That doesn't make him bad and it doesn't make me bad. It just makes it difficult for us to get along. You, _____ and ______ were exposed to our unhappiness with each other and for its effect on you, and for any part in your pain that I had, I am deeply sorry.

I want you to know that I am here for you and when you can behave in a respectful and loving way toward me, I am happy to be around you. I will never stop loving you, but you are now at an age where you are becoming an adult. You don't have the same need for my presence in your life that you had when you were younger, so I no longer have to put up with bad behavior from you.

I intend to live my life in the most productive, happiest fashion possible, just as I expect you wish for yourself. If you would like to be a contributing supportive part of that, I am happy to hear from you. If you do not wish to be, I will miss you dearly, but my life will not change.

I would love to have the enrichment of your love, presence and caring in my life. If you are unable to do so, I will try to understand. It is not healthy for our relationship; however, for me to put up with your criticism and disrespect.

You need to "mean it" when you send it!

S_C:

Thanks for your supportive words!

Zip-

When my son was young I tried to get a "big brother" to mentor him. Having no family in the area made it especially difficult for him to grow up without a Dad. If he'd had a male figure to bond with, perhaps things would be different. I'd certainly encourage you to follow-through on filling that void for a child. What a great difference you could make in his life!

Hiya Jake!

I hope you're weathering the storm! Has there been any improvement?

I wrote this poem today and I'm wondering what you think about sending it to him. I truly value your insight and appreciate your taking the time to read it.

Huge thanks!
HM

Beware of the child who learns to despise
Who sees the world through self-absorbed eyes
Who fails to acknowledge a difficult task
Driving love with a vengeance, out of his past.

A son with no comfort, no caring, concern
Who fails to provide, 'less there's a return.
For love for love's sake has no meaning to him
Only give when you take. What a concept- how grim.

A son who decries “who needs you”, beyond lost-
He's clueless, unloving, defiling the cost.
Ripping to shreds the bond that you treasure
The loving a mother feels, now and forever.

We don't get to simply give up when you're cruel
We don't stop our love when you act like a fool.
Spurning a mother causes such wretched pain
A merciless act- how selfish, how vain.

We all suffer rifts, death and breaks in our life.
The death of a friend, divorced husband or wife.
The death of a parent is a break with the past.
We grow up expecting- we know they won't last.

A break with a child is the end of a future.
Of family, comfort, of warmth and of nurture.
Of all of the elements of joy family brings
A rift is a tragedy, quashing the dream.

A son makes his family, his life carries on.
A mother's family ceases by the loss of that son.
Both by death or by rift, the hurt is the same,
But by “rift” is a son who torments to gain.

No manner of therapy, pills, medication
Ever replaces the love and affection
A son who's so callous he chooses to act thus,
Betrayal so foul- shakes the foundation of trust.

There are things that are sacred between mother and son
I carried, protected you through sunshine and storm.
I grew you as best as I knew how to do,
If choosing a life, yours or mine, I'd chose you.

Yes, you're independent. Yes, that was the plan.
You didn't like tactics that made you a man.
Perhaps you'll know better when you raise your own.
And I hope he won't toss you aside when he's grown.

So look in the mirror- if you like what you see
Remember you got there by what came from me
And though you don't need me-, that's my doing too-
Remember as I age, my family is you.

Hello helpless,
That is so from the heart,and thought out.
You have again made me cry.
Bless you

I think about you and jake and these kids and what is going on,with you helplessmom I feel for you so much,you see I have my daughter and she visits and my son will visit with her he refuses to pull in my driveway he makes her go to a nieghbor ,but at least I have her to tell me what's going on.my son proubably wishes I didn't have that and was suffering more and worring more.the lates was my daughter told me chris is waiting until he does good so he can show me,hey dad look I'm doing good without your help and I told her its been a year of NC,how much is going to mean to me that he IS doing good after years of not hearing anything.the reason I bring that up is it may be what your boy is doing,if you remember they are about the same age,met a girl and decided they don't need us at all so that might be what the thinking is " i want to give it some time until im doing good than i can show them".
Thanks for the poem and by all means get it to him and only hope it means something to him.

Thanks Zip!

I appreciate your feedback.

Perhaps your daughter could try to convey that Dad misses him and loves him regardless of whether he succeeds. Have you tried writing him a letter to that effect?

Keep the faith!
HM

This is a good op for anyone dealing with this situation
Mother / father son or daughter the pain is there
Hopeless mom has done an excellent job putting the feeling into words

Zippit, thank you. I did miss it.

I too, find much truth in the words of that poem, and can appreciate the pure love you put into it. It must have been very hard to write, and I'm so glad you took the time to do it. It really is heart wrenching.

Hopeless- you are fighting the good fight. I keep thinking that myself on the down days; it has been a rough couple of weeks actually. I've put in a formal complaint about some things I just cannot accept, so a new battle looms. But, the bottom line is the safety and well being of my daughter. Sometimes I just have to shake those cages and bring up the fact that they are dealing with a human being.

I don't know yet what the ultimate conclusion will be, I still have hope where nobody else seems to, maybe I'm right. Time will tell.

We have all been given a full plate that's for sure.

Thanks again Zip, and you Hopeless, if you don't mind, I'm going to copy that poem for a few individuals that might benefit from the wise words.

Can anyone tell me <or us> how you would handle this?
What do you do if he/she all of the sudden shows up at your door?
What do you do if/when you get that call
"hey mom,its me!"
Please!
I wish there was more input from others here
And I'm really disappointed that there isn't.

Zip

Dear Jake-

I hope all works out with your latest battle.

The one consolation that no one can remove from us is the belief that we have done our best. Regardless of how others interpret your actions, I hope following your conscience gets you through!

There's an old saw that "no good deed goes unpunished." I've come to believe that with the increased "entitlement" concepts that have crept into society, the number of people who can recognize or appreciate a moral commitment is shrinking and therefore, the amount of negative backlash one faces grows proportionately.

It's a pity that it comes from our own.

As to the poem, if you think it can help anyone, I'd be honored that you use it.

Zip-

I've been concerned about the same issues you asked about.

If my son were to call my cell, I would likely let it go to voice mail and listen to his message before I would interact with him.

If I lived somewhere he could appear on my front porch, I'd hug him, and ask what he wants. What I would say to him would be totally dependent on what he said.

If he asked for something, I'd tell him I'd think about it and get back to him. I would do so and write him a letter telling him whether I'd go along with his request and why. Between you, me and the lampost, the likelihood of my son getting anything from me except love is very unlikely!

If there wasn't an apology, recognition or commitment in what he had to say, I would know that whatever he needed at the moment, that brought him to my door, was not borne of carring or love.

I can't imagine taking an apology at face value if there were a request attached.

HM

I feel the same in regards to a request
He is real stuborn so I dought it will happen that way I hope it doesn't because he will have to be in serious need I.E. the girlfriend kicks him to the curb,he lives with her family and has put everything into her.
My main goal at that point would be to develop a relationship where he fully understands what he has put me through and I would want to move slowly and make sure it never happens again.
At least once a week I have a dream with him in it,it was my real dream that him and I would work together either in our own company or something else and we did work a large wal-mart landscape job where I was foreman and he worked with me and it was great,I just want him to know I would rather have nothing than to let him bounce in and out at his leisure