I agree that you have a point there. I don't want to teach my kids that it is okay to hit. I think they need to know that it is a disciplinary tool used by those (parents only) who are entitled to use it. I don't see my kids trying to give another one in their kindergarten class a time out. I think that kids need to know why it is used. Every situation requires something different.

e.g..
-fighting is not allowed in school
-my son was pushed by a bully in grade 1
-my son pushed back
-the bully walked away
-my son got a demerit for fighting
-RIDICULOUS!
-he was not punished at home for these actions although he did get into trouble at school
-we teach our children to stand up for themselves
-I think if everyone did, bullies wouldn't be such an issue.

Do you see where I was going with this, because I'm not sure I've connected my points here.

Oh... I was just saying that every situation is different and requires different punishments. I think the kids need to know who can punish them and know that they are not in charge of punishing anyone else.

I realize this may go over a little one's head. Anyway, I'm done... I think I've said what I mean.

I agree with you there. Just because I don't spank my kids doesn't mean that I won't teach them to defend themselves against bullying (that can be a whole other thread:)).

Since my kids are younger I don't yet face the challenges you mention here. If anyone does have younger kids you'd better believe in the power of positive reinforcement as it is more powerful than punishment in shaping behaviour. Imagine catching your child playing nicely with the baby, walk over to her and give her a great big hug and a kiss and tell her "You're doing a great job playing with <baby>, that makes me happy. Good job." That behavious is now incredibly reinforced. Same goes with making the bed, going to bed at the proper time, etc. Got to catch 'em at a young age for this to work though.

Spanking is fine, because spanking isn't beating up your kid, it's a punishment with no lasting damage, where the only side effect should be that the kid starts to grow up and behave!

I didn't get hurt or scared by spanking, taught me a good few lessons! And I think it helped me, just like it will help others.

=]

Another good punishment was getting sent to bead with just a piece of bread and a glass of water, man I missed my dinner, that tought me too! ( I love food! )

WARNING too much spanking and you could risk your kid getting a... fetish... :S (I joke, although it might be true)

Aqua and Karma, I agree with you both.

As I said before I only spanked Rae once when she was in 1st grade, never spanked Johnny (4). Positive reinforcement can do WONDERS!!

Some parents take spanking way too far. Some children that get spanked just laugh it off after it has been done too many times. There are so many different ways to use discipline and I agree with you when you say that each child and each circumstance calls for different reactions from parents.

I think the important thing is variety.

Possitive reinforce meant is great but like with anything, shouldn't be your only method, and should happen to offten.

Same with spanking, same with raising your voice, same with getting things taken away, same with getting send to your room, a bit of everything is the healtiest way!

I do agree with the positive reinforcement. I do remember to use it, some days being better than others.

Here is a thought: positive reinforcement does not require us to respond to negativity. When a child whines, screams, tattles, etc or makes it so someone else does, then we respond. It is sometimes easier to respond than it is to take the innitiative and really see what is going on.

I notice that when I am in a good mood, I am much more able to notice the good things. When I am under stress, I tend only to react. Wrong, I know, but I am only human.

I get what you mean Aqua. One of the things I do for the whining is NOTHING! I totally ignore the whining and praise when the job is well done. Sure it is easier said than done to ignore the whining, but almost 20 years of practice sure does help.

If parents present a united front I think it goes a long way in letting kids know what is expected and what is not tolerated. There must also be balance as children need not only love and hugs and rewards for very good behavior.

Yes, I am going to try to work more on possitive reinforcement. I think it is important for their self-esteem and teaches them at the same time. I guess we will not rule out spanking, but use it accordingly.

Great ideas!! That is pretty much how I do it. I have threatened Johnny with spanking, but never done it.

With positive reiforcement he, at 4, has learned to say "I'm sorry" before I even step into it.

I think the occasional spank with the hand is not a bad idea. It all depends on the situation. Anything else would be considered abuse.

What would you guys do with a 2-3 year old? We have tried numerous things and he just laughs. We are generally consistent but it is hard because you rfeel like a broken record. Some behavior we thought of just ignoring and maybe he will grow out of it but we didn't want him to think it was OK and continue to do it.

Jduke, can you distract him, like, if he's touching something you don't want him to touch, give him something to play with? Or simply remove him from the situation? Like for example, if he's misbehaving in the mall, put him in a cart? My 4 year old is a little older, but he knows if he doesn't behave at the store I will make him ride in the cart, which he hates. I say to him, "you can either not run in the store, or you can ride in the cart". Then if he keeps running, I pick him up and say, "I see you decided to ride in the cart." It works for me, anyway.

Btw, have any of you ever read the book, How To Talk So Kids Will Listen & Listen So Kids Will Talk by Adele Faber and Elaine Mazlish? It was given to me as a gift when I found out I was pregnant, and it's been very useful to me in dealing with the kids.

I like to "redirect." When Johnny (4) acts up I try to find other things for him to do. I like the advice that Chava gives though, and I also use that. It teaches from a young age that they make their choices and they have to live with the consequences to their choices.

BTW, I did the cart thingy to Johnny just yesterday at Wal-Mart.

My oldest used to throw a huge fit when she didn't get what she wanted in a store. I kept telling her no and she wouldn't listen. One day it started up in the grocery store... I think she was five or six at the time... I had finally had enough. I took her in the cart to the busiest isle I could find and I threw one hell of a temper tantrum myself. Needless to say she was so embarrassed that she never again threw a fit in any store when she was with me. It beat spanking her and really got better results... lol... I didn't care that I looked like I was crazy and that people from other places in the store came to watch it got the results I wanted. Now all I have to do is ask her "what does no mean?" and she always says "no means no". I try to use the child against themselves... like if they know they aren't sapposed to be doing something I'll get one of their toys and start playing with it and tell them that they can't. Pretty soon they forget what they were doing and want to know what you are doing with their toy. I guess it's a form of reverse psychology but I'm really not sure... It has worked with most of the kids I've cared for though, no matter what their past so I keep doing it... lol. I still believe that a swat on the rear drives home a point when they are putting themselves in danger. I think I only use it when it becomes the lesser of two evils.

You are too funny Myth. I think I saw you in Wal-Mart in Millington LOL. I saw a woman do the same thing, and the kid turned red and got quiet real quick.

Hey it works wonders though... they get embarrassed by the same things we do... lol

Yeah, and it can be fun if you know what you are doing. Hey, those people will probably never see you again!!

I still swear it was you LOL

Orange, yes I/we have tried to distract him. It usually doesn't work. He'll just go right back to it. He has a memory like an elephant. He could be complaining about something just before nap and I distract him enough for him to forget and when he wakes up the first thing he mentions is the thing he was complaining about. This is usually at home he is like this. When we are out I put him in the stroller when he is acting up. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. At home, however, it is one thing after another. For example, up the stairs, get him down; on the coffee table, tell him to get off; don't hit your brother, he laughs; don't drink your brother's water, again laughs, etc. This is all within 10 min. It gets frustrating and tiresome. Especially when I am trying to get work done around the house. Of course, both my wife and I are on him constantly. I hope it is just a phase. Thanks for your input.

JDuke - you have to offer up some negative consequences to his behavior.. not necessarily spanking but something that has some affect. Saying "no" is only the beginning of a negative consequence - i.e. should be a warning to the kid that if this escalates, stuff is going to happen. I don't see that you are "armed" with any stuff... time-out, stand in corner, no toys etc.