I have read so many stories of alcohlics,mothers,fathers and even kids who binge drink.
Then there are those who party and drink (so called "social "drinkers).

As I have never tasted alcohol nor have any plans to try it,
I keep wondering...

Why do families drink in front of kids?
Especially when parents keep telling kids not to drink etc. Isn't this sending mixed signals to the children?

As some are very sure that they will not get addicted or become an alcoholic, what guarantee does anyone have that this will not happen one day if a person keeps drinking alcohol?

I know this maybe a touchy subject to some as it is accepted in most cultures to have that occasional drink,but I would like to hear your personal thoughts on this...


Thanks:)

You know what I grew up with an alcoholic he died when I was 21 I then made a living out of the trade and now I just don't drink I used to smoke but not any more.

It's a hard one its all very well having a civilised glass of wine with food but I've never wanted to just drink because I can guess that's what my dads drink problem taught me my sister on the other hand will happily have a gin and tonic to finish her day.

You can't class everyone that drinks as an alcoholic that's a extremely serious disease and it kills people I think the big thing is to know when you have had enough and stop and that's where alcoholics fail.

Does one need to be an alcoholic to have health problems because of drinking?

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Originally Posted by firmbeliever

Does one need to be an alcoholic to have health problems because of drinking?

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It is normally associated yes my father eventually stopped eating and just drank and the dr said well what's killing him is also keeping him alive she told him he could have 6 weeks, 6 months or 6 years it was up to him 6 weeks later he was dead he ended up with major liver and kidney problems.
He really wasn't that nice a man to be honest he was a mental abuser never physical but he was mentally cruel and it was constant from the age of 11 to 21.

You do have to drink a heck of a lot mind you everyday to get in the state he was in it wasn't just the odd beer it was constant from 5am till 10 at night not just the couple in the evening I think there is definitely a line between social drinking and not being able to control your alcohol intake to being an alcoholic.

I love red wine with a good meal. I like going out for a beer at the pub with friends. Everything in moderation I say. One can abuse anything really. Some kill you faster than others.

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Originally Posted by curlybenswife

It is normally associated yes my father eventually stopped eating and just drank and the dr said well whats killing him is also keeping him alive she told him he could have 6 weeks, 6 months or 6 years it was up to him 6 weeks later he was dead he ended up with major liver and kidney problems.
He really wasnt that nice a man to be honest he was a mental abuser never physical but he was mentally cruel and it was constant from the age of 11 to 21.

You do have to drink a heck of alot mind you everyday to get in the state he was in it wasnt just the odd beer it was constant from 5am till 10 at night not just the couple in the evening i think there is definitely a line between social drinking and not being able to control your alcohol intake to being an alcoholic.

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So sorry to hear about how hard it must have been for you...
I cannot even imagine the toture for a girl of 11 years and up,to have gone through what you have.
In a way I guess your experience helps you to be a better mom for your daughter,especially if she grows up emulating you.

I have read somewhere that most mentally and physically abusive people have so much lacking in their character/persona that they use the abuse to hide their weaknesses.

About there being a line between social drinking and losing control,
I do not wish to touch a fire to see if it is hot because I know one day it may burn me... :eek:
But I guess you are right there are those who do the occasional drink.
For me personally it is part of my faith and belief,being commanded by my Creator not to drink alcohol as it does more bad then good and that is reason enough for me to stay away from it.:)

Like any other topic alcohol drinkers have different reasons for doing what they do, I used to drink myself when I was in high school because I was in a boarding school and others guys influence and boredom led me to start drinking but know I have a job and don't want to spend my money on alcohol.

Anyway, some people drink for the fun of it, others because they are addicted but there is a fine line between social drinkers and addicts.

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Originally Posted by firmbeliever

So sorry to hear about how hard it must have been for you...
I cannot even imagine the toture for a girl of 11 years and up,to have gone through what you have.
In a way I guess your experience helps you to be a better mom for your daughter,especially if she grows up emulating you.

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Your right it has made me what I am today quite probablt a very hard person but I know the difference in many things that a normal person wouldn't even bat an eyelid at, it was no picnic but he is gone the suffering hasn't been there for over 10 years and I have no intention of ever putting my children through what he did us he had his reasons for drinking like he did but as with all alcohlics they have to ask for help or there's no helping them.

Does anyone else have stories of their own alcoholic problems which they have kicked, I wonder how it feels?

Thanks all for sharing..

I do occasionally drink a lot (to excess?) socially, but I have no dependence upon it.

I'm very confused by people who have never tried it and never wish to...

I also don't understand when people say it's a fine line between social drinking and alcoholism, that's simply not true.

Yes, while I am sometimes quite a heavy social drinker, I would never let a substance rule my life, and I can't see it happening.

I think there is a fine line where alcohol is used to deal with emotional stress, but social drinking is a completely different matter.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

I also don't understand when people say it's a fine line between social drinking and alcoholism, that's simply not true.

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Only a person who has not actually lived and breathed through a true alcoholic would utter such a line.

I believe that one has a genetic predisposition to addiction. To say that social drinkers are all on their way to becoming alcoholics is preposterous. Usually some psychological or genetic factor needs to be present for that to happen.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

I believe that one has a genetic predisposition to addiction. To say that social drinkers are all on their way to becoming alcoholics is preposterous. Usually some psychological or genetic factor needs to be present for that to happen.

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So your saying the fact my father was a alcoholic that I too will also be one?? What absolute flipping rubbish.
Id rather sell the stuff and make money out of it than drink it anyday.

To be honest it's a distinct possibility should you face some adversity.

The studies are still not conclusive as to causality but they keep studying ti because they see a pattern.

The Genetics of Alcoholism

Alcoholism and Alcohol Abuse

Addiction and genetics - World Wide Addiction.com

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Originally Posted by Capuchin

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I'm very confused by people who have never tried it and never wish to...

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I am one of those, and for me it is part of my faith and belief and its in obedience to my Creator that I refrain from it or any other form of addictive substance.:)
Not that it is hard to do it... I just never had the wish to try it.

Could be growing up in an alcohol free environment made it easy :)

Firm, what country do you live in?

Loz, obviously you will not become an alcoholic if you don't drink. But if you did start to do whatever your father did when he fell into it, you'll be at a higher risk of falling into it too than someone who doesn't have alcoholism in their family history.

That's just the way you're made and the probability that you have inherited some part of your father's predispositions, just like I have probably inherited some of my grandfather's predispositions to heart disease (although my dad hasn't showed anything yet, fingers crossed!).

Nk I would have to blooody drink to become one mate I went through merry hell as a kid and I can assure you I have no intention of going the same way there isn't even a bottle of wine in the house anymore its bought very occasionally when you sell as much as me and ben did you do go off it quite a lot.
Don't JUDGE ME especially when you have never been in my shoes go very careful what you are accusing me of and don't tie me with others there is a lot more scars than I will ever share here with utter judgemental straingers.

Holy crap CBW, where are getting this judging stuff from? Calm down a second; I'm not judging anyone here. I have no idea where you are getting that idea.

I'm happy that you are breaking the cycle as it were.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Holy crap CBW, where are getting this judging stuff from? Calm down a second; I'm not judging anyone here. I have no idea where you are getting that idea.

I'm happy that you are breaking the cycle as it were.

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One word of advice never tarr a person with the same brush

Obvioulsy this an emotional subject for you. My posts were not meant for you personally, I'm not sure how to make you understand that.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Obvioulsy this an emotional subject for you. My posts were not meant for you personally, I'm not sure how to make you understand that.

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Don't even bother you will do more harm than good.

I'm out.

I don't understand how you are offended Loz, we are all "tarred with the same brush" as our parents. That's how reproduction works. :confused:

It is the way you say certain things NK,it makes it sound judgemental and makes us defensive and especially when it is written word
And not being face to face it makes it even more difficult to understand some remarks you make as being non judgemental.

It maybe your normal style,but some of us(me included) tend to see a bit of judgement in the way you state your opinion... :)

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Originally Posted by firmbeliever

It is the way you say certain things NK,it makes it sound judgemental and makes us defensive and especially when it is written word
and not being face to face it makes it even more difficult to understand some remarks you make as being non judgemental.

It maybe your normal style,but some of us(me included) tend to see a bit of judgement in the way you state your opinion....:)

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Actually I'll stay and defend myself against baseless accusations. Firm , show me in this thread where I was judgemental of CBW.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Actually I'll stay and defend myself against baseless accusations. Firm , show me in this thread where I was judgemental of CBW.

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I hate getting into arguments,but now I am in it...

I did not say you were judgemental of CBW,but see the post you gave below.
If you had read the previous posts by CBW, you will notice that she mentioned her history with an alcoholic and when you said this it is putting her under the label of one who is predispositioned to become an alcohlic.

"I believe that one has a genetic predisposition to addiction. To say that social drinkers are all on their way to becoming alcoholics is preposterous. Usually some psychological or genetic factor needs to be present for that to happen."

And obviously anyone who has gone through such an experience will feel defensive.

Do you get my point.:)

No. I stated a fact and posted the studies, for anyone who reads this thread not just for her. You have to really want to make that leap that I was targeting her and that is not my style or personality.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

No. I stated a fact and posted the studies, for anyone who reads this thread not just for her. You have to really want to make that leap that I was targeting her and that is not my style or personality.

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NK,
I am sorry if I said anything to offend you or if I made a baseless accusation.
Thank you for the links though.

This whole issue has struck a serious raw nerve with CBW and as such she will defend what has been said.
To make the assumption that you will follow a parents "example" in the case is a serious leap to far.
To of been trough what she has at a young age has had a massive negative effect on her when it comes to alcohol.
Please remember what we both used to do for a living and even then, with it readily available the temptation was there but NEVER acted upon.

I hope this clears things up.

NK, as you know studies can be written/conducted to prove anything.
Shame really, but there you go.

NK and I were presenting the "nature" side of the argument, but neglected to mention the huge effect that "nurture" can also have.

Someone who went through such a horrible event involving alcohol as CBW had will of course be at very little risk of following in her fathers footsteps, as she has been "nurtured" never to allow someone to go through what she had to go through.

I think this is a large part of the misunderstanding, can we move back to the last question in this thread, where I believe firmbeliever was wondering if anyone had overcome alcoholism.

Quite honestly, I think I've beaten actual alcoholism.
Both of my parents were heavy drinkers and smokers.
I believe it was cigarettes that took my mother too young, not alcohol.
But watching them drink for so many years, I began to drink anything alcoholic when I was in the 10th grade. When I graduated from HS and moved into the adult world, that only made my problem easier to excuse. I justified my drinking by socializing with other drinkers. THAT'S many peoples problem: the "support" groups of fellow drinkers. It's legal to drink and whoop it up, and that's how we did it. I call it "social alcoholism".
I feel fortunate because I began to see how my habit "required" so much of my time. I enjoyed the buzz, but not the results the next day. I've been "sober" for a long time now, but some will say I haven't won the battle: I do drink wine with meals. A 6-pack will last a week. There in lies the difference, I many peoples opinion, between social drinking and alcoholics. The bottle no longer rules my life. And I feel so much better for it.
Now, I feel the need to point out while we're talking about addictions and bad habits, alcohol and drugs aren't the only addictions that can be detrimental to ones health, as I'm certain we're all aware.

Addictive behavior runs in my family, on both sides. Both my grandfathers were alcoholics (they're long gone now), my mom's cousin is an alcoholic, my mom's mom was addicted to pain pills many years ago, and my dad's mom has obsessive behaviors towards germs (I classify it as the same, it may not be). One of my dad's sisters is also an alcoholic, and we expect a drug user. A cousin of mine is addicted to pain pills and who knows what else. One of my brothers has fought with addictive tendencies for years; he was into drugs as a teenager, then later in life would buy a bottle of Jack Daniels everyday and drink it on his own. Other relatives are heavy smokers (despite my grandfather and aunt dying at young ages due to lung cancer). My dad never exhibited alcoholic tendencies; I saw him have the occasional beer or glass of wine, but I never saw him drunk. I think his upbringing (like CBW) with an abusive alcoholic parent kept him from doing that. My mom, I've noticed tends to drink to cope with things sometimes (her dad was an alcoholic, her mom was addicted to pain pills), and though it's not frequent, if she opens a bottle of wine, she finishes it. I drank pretty often when I was younger (it was the "cool" thing to do), but it was always socially. Now I've largely lost my taste for it, so to speak. I still enjoy a nice beer on occasion, or a nice glass of wine, but I almost never drink to the point of intoxication. It's not because of my family (at least not on a conscious level), I just really hate the hangover... Plus, my dad died of liver disease (unrelated to drinking, but still) when he was 55, so I can't look at alcohol without thinking about what it's doing to my liver. Same with cigarettes; my aunt died at 55, my grandfather at 60, both of lung cancer. It sort of takes the fun out of it when you're thinking about dead family members!

To get back to the original question about why do families drink in front of their kids, I think there is a big difference between having a drink with dinner and passing out on the couch with your kids looking on. My parents frequently shared a bottle of wine when I was a kid; it never made me want to drink, I knew that was the "adult" thing to do. I also never saw them drunk, save for one New Year's when I was about 13, and that was just my mom. When I started drinking it was because of my peers, not because of my upbringing. My father-in-law drinks beer daily (never seen him drunk either), and my sister-in-law who is 15 wants nothing to do with the stuff. Her mom offered her a sip of wine at Thanksgiving or something last year, she took one sniff and said, "Why would I want to drink something that tastes like THAT?" So really, I think it depends on the environment, and of course, the kids. There are families who have a history of alcoholism and abuse and each generation continues it. Then there are families with that history who make a real effort to break the cycle and often are successful. If alcoholism or addiction runs in your family, I think you have to make a real effort to keep it out of your life. For some that means no drugs of any kind, for others, just being aware of what and how much you are allowing into your body.

Thank you Captain and Jillian for sharing...

Firmbeliever, I have the exactly same question as you do.:)
The reason I don't drink is that I don't see any good reason to do it.
If it makes me smarter or helps me be successful in my life I will do it, but it doesn't really, does it?LOL
Ppl have too much desire, chase too much fun, and all want to be someone else. You don't have to drink because everyone else is doing it!
I do hear of that red wine helps reduce heart problem. But right now I am working out and eating healthy, my heart is totally fine. Wait until I get old, I will problly consider about a glass of red wine only for health benefit.;)

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Originally Posted by nicespringgirl

Firmbeliever, I have the exactly same question as you do.:)
The reason I don't drink is that I don't see any good reason to do it.
If it makes me smarter or helps me be successful in my life I will do it, but it doesn't really, does it?LOL
Ppl have too much desire, chase too much fun, and all want to be someone else. U don't have to drink b/c everyone else is doing it!!
I do hear of that red wine helps reduce heart problem. but right now I am working out and eating healthy, my heart is totally fine. Wait til I get old, I will problly consider about a glass of red wine only for health benefit.;)

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Nicespringgirl,
It is a pleasure to meet someone who shares my views on alcohol and chasing useless(harmful) fun... :)
I agree with you,so many wish to be someone else, especially with regard to the enjoyment of this life,physical beauty etc.

I have also heard the oldest man in Japan said that he lived so long because he never touched alcohol... :)

Well I was brought up with my mother teaching me that alcohol is very bad. Although my step - father likes his beer. My fathers side of the family. My Father, Grandfather and Grand Grandfather are all known as alcoholics. My step fathers side of the family are known to be alcoholics as well. I was always taught and told that it is in the family and genetically and statisticly it is better for me to stay away from it because this disease or condition is in the family.

Later in life as a late teenager I figured out for myself that the occasional drink or moderation of drink is not going to condemn me to become a drunk just because it is in the family. Well I never was a partier, never was much into alcohol but I can drink without the worry of it getting any further. I also believe that knowing and seeing what it can do to family. Marriages failing, abuse, and stealing and so much else that can come from somebodies abuse from alcohol, like a parent being an absent parent. I have learned that it should be a very rare occasion with moderation is okay.

I have also seen and heard about cousins that actually got violent when drinking and got very nastful and hateful and started fights with everybody and even both of these parents drinking while leaving there baby in bed. This happened many years ago, they are both unfit and these are examples of abuse of alcohol and I think it is disgusting that they did this in front of their child. Not much of an example.

Then you have certain traditions or cultures which from an early age. Have a glass of wine with each meal. This of course I feel is different from the above situation.

These are my thoughts on it. We all have life lessons to learn and by knowing what my mother when through with my father, somewhat my step father and the history there, makes me know that I never want to get into that situation and I believe my mother instilled in me the right values to make sure that never happens.

Joe

You don't think that occasionally being someon else will help understand your actual self?

I also take offense to you linking alcohol with being harmful.. I have done nothing harmful under the influence.