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In this time of "politically correct" it seems that there is a general good feel attitude about religion. "You're OK, I'm OK" pretty well expresses it. Folks say it doesn't matter how you serve God, because we are all His children. I submit for your consideration this: the God of the Bible is not the same as Allah. Discussion anyone?
I don't think it's a valid question.
I, as a Catholic Christian, have no problem using an Arabic name for God, that is, Allah.
But... I do NOT agree with Islam's description/explanation of what God has revealed to man.
The name of God a person uses depends on which holy book they accept as divinely inspired scripture. The idea that there is and necessarily must be one and ONLY ONE true scripture, and one and ONLY ONE correct interpretation of that scripture is the source of countless religious wars, feuds, fights and arguments. I hope this isn't the start of another one.
God, or Jesus or any other English name is just merely that, an English name, The translations go into 1000's of various langauges.
So in disussion of the use of the word... for God,there are many.
What makes the difference is if you are referring to the God of the bible, or the god of the Quran or the god in other beleifs.
Now as far as if the Christian God is the Muslim God that is a highly debated issue. Many believe it is, since it has a lot of reference to Christianity. One has to remember that although it was a schrismatic sect of Christianity in the area where the Quran was writte, there were groups of Christians there, and the faith they practiced is expressed directly in the Quran, the teachings of Mary and the virgin birth but also the belief that Jesus did not really die and that Jesus was not really god.
So for many Chrsitian scholars it is simple, that this is the same god, since many of the writings of the Quran were taken directly from Christianity.
Now then if you believe that the writings were actually inspired by a god, then one can not accept that they are the same as the Christian God since their teachings are against the teachings and beleifs of the Christian faith.
Many of that idea follow the god in the Quran to a moon god, but I am not up completely on that teachings since I am a follower of the first belief that the writer of the Quran used many parts of the local christian teachings as a base for the writings,
To rishy39, The people that say you are a child of God are just doing what there God told them to do, so when you tell them to worship on their own that is what they are doing which includes trying to show you the ways of God, hoping you will accept it and become a believer. If they did not do this they would not be fulfilling their promise to God.
Actually yes the entire idea that everyone is a "son of god" is not bibical for Christinaity, since those that don't accept Christ and follow him are not sons of God
Romans 8:14 because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God
Gallations 3:25 to 27 26You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, 27for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
Muhammed is a dead, self proclaimed prophet, Jesus is a living Savior. I guess the god of Islam couldn't pull that one off. You know, the risen from the dead thing. I think that makes the two different, very different! If you do not think Jesus arose from the dead, then you need to become a follower of Islam, since they don't think he did either.
"They slew him not nor crucified, but it appeared so unto them." (Surah 4:157) Quran
I don't think Allah is the same as God. Allah may mean god in Arabic but it's not the same God. I think a lot of Muslims probably don't know much about their religion to question a great deal about Mohammed. I think these Muslims were just born into their religion & believe if their parents tell them that Allah is the same as the Biblical God, they just believe that too.
Could Allah's name have come from.. www.biblebelievers.org.au/moongod.htm
Nope,Quote:
Originally Posted by 31pumpkin
The name's of the Arab moon-gods were; Wadd, `Amm, Sin, Il Mukah & Aksum. Allah is a contraction of the Southern Semitic Al-ilah which simply means "The God." I refer you to the following site
Ray McIntyre
Priest
Anglican Church International
Until just recently I thought that Moslems did direct their worship to the God described in the Hebrew Scriptures. But then I came across the Islamic claim that the Hebrew scriptures were tampered with and that the Koran is the correct guide.Quote:
Originally Posted by galveston
BTW
I bet that if these same people who smugly say all religions are OK and that God doesn't care what we believe and how we worship were having their still-beating-hearts ripped out of their chests by religiously fanatical Aztec priests they wouldn't be singing that "all-religions-are-OK" jingle.
I don't know anyone (certainly no one posting to this thread) who believes that "all religions are OK". Some are obviously worse than others, and the truly gruesome ones usually die out on their own. There probably aren't many Aztecs practicing human sacrifice any more.
However, there is one teaching that is shared by almost (but not quite) all religions, and that is the claim to be the only true and right religion, specially designated by God (or Allah, or Whomever) to convert all the heathens and unbelievers of the world to the one TRUE religion. This common shared belief is the source of untold suffering, cruelty and injustice. But those who hold it are blind to both the commonality of it, and its woeful consequences. Apparently the temptation to embrace beliefs that make us feel specially favored and superior to others is almost overwhelming.
Personally I belong to the free-thinkers group.
I have done lots of research on religions in the past. I have read quite a few books that all say the same thing about the difference between Christian God and Allah. Here is a passage that I hope will be helpful.
"Muslims have "99 beautiful names" for Allah (which they memorize), and each one describes one of Allah's characteristics. You might be surprised to learn that love is absent from this long list of character qualities. The Qur'an doesn't describe Allah as loving. His character is defined more in terms of judgment than by grace, and in terms of power rather than mercy.
This isn't to say, however, that Allah doesn't love. He loves those who do good (meaning that they do good deeds and adhere to the required daily practices of the Five Pillars). But Allah does not love the person whose bad deeds outweigh the good things he or she has done.
The attribute of love is a huge difference between Allah and the God of Judaism and Christianity. That's why it is incorrect to believe that Allah and God are the same deity but are simply known by two different names, depending upon whether you sitting in a mosque or a church. Allah of the Qur'an only loves those he deems to be good; the God of the Bible lobes all humanity, none of whom are basically good.
If anyone ever asks whether there is a difference between Allah and God, tell them love is the answer."
Another big difference is the relationship between the two Gods and their followers. Christians believe that God is immanent, that he exists within the world and human nature. Where as Muslims believe that a person can never "know" Allah, but that He will make his wishes known. They also do not try to know Allah because He can't be known, so he remains distant and mysterious.
Passage from World Religions & Cults 101 by Bruce Bickel and Stan Jantz
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwimac
Well kiwimac, I didn't take the "moongod" that seriously either. However, I do not believe Mohammed was a true prophet. He claimed some visions & revelations from God then the Qur'an was written. NOT that my 1st husband was a Muslim do I hold an opinion (he certainly thought Allah was God) But after reading about Mohammed, I don't believe one man's imagination is credible to claim it as a true religion. In addition, Allah's attributes are different from the Abrahamic God.
So here's some more balance:
True History of Islam, Mohammed and the Koran
Car salesmen try to sell cars, because they are committed, Realtors try to sell houses because they are committed, insurance agents try to sell insurance because they are committed. Christians try to sell Jesus to you because they are trying to make you understand the fact that there is an afterlife, and they are so driven by their faith in the word that they want you to have that choice also.Quote:
Originally Posted by rishy39
The most I can say about that site is "interesting." Any site whose first question about ANYONE is "Terrorist or Prophet" loses me fairly quickly. There are far more balanced sites out there, HOME PAGE: Web site of the Ontario Consultants on Religious Tolerance is oneQuote:
Originally Posted by 31pumpkin
kiwimac
Side note: People should not rely on Anti-Islam Websites to learn about Islam.
The above link is NOT a fair and balanced "true history of Islam".
Quote:
Originally Posted by letmetellu
The key word there is "Choice".
I was referring to the statement posted by the person who asked the question where he states that today political correctness requires that we say that all other people's religions are OK. So assuming that scenario I gave the Aztec hypothetical situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by ordinaryguy
Actually, as strange as it might seem, I have repeatedly come across the concept that all religious roads lead to God. I think that it's a platitude stated to convey religious tolerance and really isn't given much thought. If it were, then the statement wouldn't be used so frequently since it is obviously absurd.
About gruesome religions dying out on their own, when the Spaniards arrived in Mexico human sacrifice for religious purposes had been practiced for centuries and instead of diminishing had intensified under the Aztecs. It took a gruesome military campaign to put an end to it. Is that what you mean by dying out on its own?
Yeah, I guess I should have said "die out on their own or are defeated in a fight to the death with other similarly gruesome adversaries".Quote:
Originally Posted by Starman
Rishy is right. If there is an afterlife, it can only be a fact to those who have already died. To the rest of us, it can be a hope, a hypothesis, and a belief, but not a fact. Trying to "sell Jesus" as a way to make somebody accept your belief as a fact is not salesmanship, it's arrogance.Quote:
Originally Posted by letmetellu
I didn't hear anyone here directly try to witness to you. And doesn't visiting the RELIGION category on a forum require someone to anticipate a certain amount of Religious tolerance?Quote:
Originally Posted by rishy39
Religion IS left at home and church.
The majority of Americans believe in God. If doomsday comes tomorrow- That's why He will save us(or his)
But that's OK, you have a free will not to believe.
OK. Back to topic would be good now. :)
My issue with some of the comments is that this thread is about Allah and God and the use of those words as being the same person or god.
While many threads wonder, I would ask why someone who is a atheist would get into the discussion since they don't believe in either as being real at all. They have no input as to this discussion, it was not a discussion if they are real, or if you should believe, or if you should be preaching about them.
And honestly after a couple private messages they are obviously done with some anti religious feelings almost to the point of being a set up for a agruement.
I would ask that if you wish to discuss if God is real, start your own thread on that, or find one already in the works. If you wish to add to the ongoing discussion of Allah and God, and even how the various religions have reached their translations of the words, fine,
I perhaps should have moved these to a new post, which is a fine discussion that I would love to see from time to time, but not on an existing post please, lets keep the post slightly more directed
I know it is a choice and it is what I believe, I also know what you believe or at least what you don't believe. But someday in the future you will hope that I am wrong for if I am right where does that leave you.Quote:
Originally Posted by rishy39
God/Allah, same thing, but leave it to us stupid humans to argue about it.
In the discussion so far, something needs to be pointed out: Allah has no Son. In fact, I believe that most Muslims would say that the very idea is repugnant to them. However, there is little valid argument that the God of the Bible does indeed have a son, one Jesus of Nazareth, and that He Loved the world so much that He sent that Son to bring salvation to us and sealed the promise by raising Jesus from the dead.
Little vaid argument?Quote:
Originally Posted by galveston
Considerable argument! Including the words of the Book Muslim hold sacred.
But if you look ( not defending Islam of course) but they have a comparison, in the end, there is a person or spirit of light that is looked for.
I have always when trying to discuss Christianity with people from Islam, say could this light not be Jesus, or the Son of God.
And actually in Christianity for several hundred years, there was some debate if Jesus was the true Son of God, or merely a son in a more general term used and picked by God for the mission of salvation, and even a few groups that viewed Jesus the man as being saved somehow at the last minute, ( the same basic teachings as found in the Quran)
The idea and acceptance that Christ was the Son of God is now fairly universally accepted for Christians. ( and I say fairly, since I don't know every denomination and their teachings, I know some don't accept the trinity)
But that was actually part of one of the Churches Synods and voted on, and declared the rule, But there were early sects normally rejected by main stream that did have other teachings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwimac
In his context, he said, ( God of the Bible) so according to the Bible, not according to the Quran or other writings, And according to the bible and according to church doctrine, there is little argument today.
According to the Quran or according to a Buddhist, or other faith that does not accept the teachings of the bible, then in general there is not an argument only a disagreement on which if any writtings are true and valid.
For that belief, in which is true, hinges the major issue.
But personally, I have always related Allah and God, even in the context of Islam and Christianity as being the same God, there are many who will agrue they are not. All of these people who believe either way are fine people, who are trained in bible study much more than I am, and both sides present great view points.
So I guess in the end, I have to ask, to the Christian does it matter if Islam believes it is the same God or not. And to Islam does it matter if a Christian believes it is the same God or not. To each there are so many other teaching ideas that separate us, I am not sure if this one is ever agreeable to the majority of either group.
And of course to those that don't believe in either religion, to them it does not matter at all, since both are false in their belief.
Now I will throw this addition out for an idea, if someone who does not believe in either, that means they rate both as false, does this make them the same, in their mind, since they are false, or are they two separate false gods in their mind? Or if they don't believe do they care
The Bible is not the Quran. Yaweh is not Allah. Christians are not Muslims. Atheists are not believers. This discussion is not interesting.
I'm not sure what you mean by "little valid argument".Quote:
Originally Posted by galveston
Here are some of those whom the scriptures call sons of God:
1. Angels
Job 1:
6Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
2. Perfect humans such as Adam
Luke 3:38 (Genealogy of Jesus)... "the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God."
3. His only begotten Son Jesus or the Word as he was referred to in heaven before coming to Earth.
Luke 1:34-35
"How will this be," Mary asked the angel, "since I am a virgin?" The angel answered, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God."
1 John 4:13-15
We know that we live in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit. And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in him and he in God.
4. Redeemed humans who are spiritually begotten via the operation of holy spirit.
Romans 8:14
... ", because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God."
The following website provides more examples
:Son of God
So I guess all these scriptures would be unacceptable from an Islamic viewpoint.
In order to answer the original question more directly, we have to ask ourselves just what it is that differentiates us from one another. Isn't it appearance and personality? Yet identical twins aren't considered the same person. In fact, that applies to everything else that might be visually identical. So even if the entity which Islam and Christianity referred to as God were identical in appearance, power, or anything other than personality, they still wouldn't be the same God due to differences in actual personalities or in the way which the personalities are described.
So you have very effectively, in my view, answered your own question by describing Allah as a God who doesn't offer sonship and Jehovah as a God who does.
Quote:
Originally Posted by galveston
Quote:
Originally Posted by galveston
Well, Duh!Quote:
Originally Posted by Starman
It seems that the only point to the original post and all the pro-God anti-Allah commentary since, is to cheer for Christianity and the Bible and denigrate Islam and the Quran. This attitude has more in common with sports fans cheering their own team and bad-mouthing their opponents than with constructive dialogue between sincere people of faith. It doesn't contribute to understanding between Christians and Muslims, and it invites the scorn of unbelievers. If those results are satisfying to you, cheer on, I guess.Quote:
Originally Posted by Starman
Reminds me of the arguments in my old neighborhood, between the Bear fans and the Packer fans, but there were 6 Bear fans, and 1 Packer fan. Bear fans always won the arguments, no matter the Packers would win the game. Not a lot of those who follow Allah weighed in, so this was so lopsided that the similarities could not be put forth, but a lot of negativity by the Christian crew sure buried the other side. Similar to life I suspect, but so sad that people would be so closed minded because of their doctrines. Doctrines notwhitstanding, I think its all about semantics.
And what a surprise it is that the topic did turnout to go for political correctness!Quote:
Originally Posted by galveston
A RELIGIOUS debate turned pure SECULAR.
Wow, maybe there will be more Muslims debating the question, since there wasn't much feedback so far from them.
Correct me if I am wrong but isn't this the view of all different religions (not just Christianity and Islam)? That all others are false?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck
Yes most, not up on some of the middle eastern or some that are more accepting of everyone and everything
But since this post was directly referring to Allah and God as in the Christian God the reference was made as to the information in the thread, not wanting to include other religions not mentioned in the link or other religions I have no firm info on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Can you blame them? You'd have to be "a suicider" to willingly throw yourself into a den of ferocious Christian lions. If I was a devout and moderate Muslim, I'd lay low too, like a Packers fan in Chicago.Quote:
Originally Posted by 31pumpkin
To those of us who aren't entrenched on either side, it's about semantics, but to the true believers on both sides, it's about TRUTH and LIES, GOOD and EVIL. To call it semantics is to show that you're really on the side of EVIL in the EPIC STUGGLE OF THE AGES, not to mention being "politically correct" <shudder>.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
To each his own. And why not? I will hazard a guess that your 'God of the Bible' is not the same 'God of the Bible' that other Bible believers find in the Bible and worship.Quote:
Originally Posted by galveston
Although Muslims have borrowed a lot of text from the Hebrew and Greek Bibles they are generally more at odds with the character and attributes of the Christian God than they are with the Jewish God. There is a dichotomy between Jewish and Christian theology that is not reducible to a common understanding. Many Christians find it difficult to reconcile much of the behaviour and pronouncements of the OT God with the Christ-in-God - or God-in-Christ - of the NT.
Nevertheless, as you are probably aware, this is a subject that has generated a lot of heat and a little light, and is far from settled.
For example: The Muslim God has no Son. The Christian Allah has a Son. I'd say that therein lies a significant difference that cannot be resolved unless and until either the Muslims admit they are wrong, or else the Christians admit that they are wrong. I predict the continual theological version of a Mexican stand-off.
M:)RGANITE
My wife already used this line on me Friday night when I wanted some nooky. Guess who won that struggle?:DQuote:
To call it semantics is to show that you're really on the side of EVIL in the EPIC STUGGLE OF THE AGES
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickJ
The question is certainly valid. Perhaps it calls for a greater depth of the attributes and characteristics of each - Jewish God Christiand God and Muslim God - but that is the challenge of a Q&A forum such as this. Thus, it encourages us to stretch ourselves and learn more, even when the invitation calls us to wander into terra incognito.
The question probes much deeper than merely accepting or rejecting the language used to name God eg: God or Allah or Yahveh or El, etc, it goes right to the heart of who and what God is according to each faith.
Muslims are strictly monotheistic, whereas most Christians are less so, which is a cause of contention between Muslims and Christians. Muslims insist that Allah has no Son. Christians insist that Allah has a Son.
I note what you say, and agree with you. How fortunate that all we can get to blows with in this forum are words.Quote:
Originally Posted by ordinaryguy
M:)RGANITE
??Quote:
Originally Posted by Morganite
How someone could think that, I have no clue. Christianity is absolutely a monotheistic religion.
I know of no group that calls itself Christian, with the exception of Mormons, that professes anything but monotheism.
Do you?
Lashing out because I disagree.
Absolutely!
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