:) Hello everyone,
I have a question for all you Bible scholars. What is the theme of the Bible and what does it have to do with the end of this system of things?
Thanks,
Happyperson
|
:) Hello everyone,
I have a question for all you Bible scholars. What is the theme of the Bible and what does it have to do with the end of this system of things?
Thanks,
Happyperson
Hi;
The theme of the Bible is: It is God's love letter to us about Jesus. Thus, the Bible is a roadmap that guides us and teaches us how to relate to God, how to relate to others and how to relate to ourselves. :)
Arthur
So let's all go out now and kill us some Canaanites!
The purpose of all creation is to glorify God. Man's salvation or damnation will accomplish this either way. The Bible is part of God's plan as he has chosen that his desire and plan of salvation be by his grace, not man's works, through faith.
So in understanding the way he deals with man you must remember that all things are design and performed with the result of glorifying God and to get man to put his faith in him.
God could simply open the heavens at any time he liked and introduce himself, but this is not how he has decided to glorify himself. It is like the Titanic, once someone opened there month and made the statement that she was unsinkable or not even God could sink her, she was doomed, regardless how many lives would be lost.
Very good reply. I loved your analysis with the titantic.
In His grip!
Arthur
Unfortunately, not many really understand this principle of God's plan and word. His Glory comes first, then man's salvation, e.g. to deny that God is in charge, even of the evil, is to deny him his glory, 9-11, etc. Those who do so have a fanciful Santa for a God.
Quote:
]Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things].
Amos 3:6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done [it]?
Hi
The evil which consists in the defect of action is always caused by the defect of the agent. But in God there is no defect, but the highest perfection, Hence, the evil which consists in defect of action, or which is caused by defect of the agent, is not reduced to God as to its cause.
But the evil which consists in the corruption of some things is reduced to God as the cause. And this appears as regards both natural things and voluntary things. For it was said that some agent inasmuch as it produces by its power a form to which follows corruption and defect, causes by its power that corruption and defect. But it is manifest that the form which God chiefly intends in things created is the good of the order of the universe. Now, the order of the universe requires that there should be some things that can, and do sometimes, fail. And thus God, by causing in things the good of the order of the universe, consequently and as it were by accident, causes the corruptions of things, according to 1 Kgs. 2:6: "The Lord killeth and maketh alive." But when we read that "God hath not made death" (Wis. 1:13), the sense is that God does not will death for its own sake. Nevertheless the order of justice belongs to the order of the universe; and this requires that penalty should be dealt out to sinners. And so God is the author of the evil which is Penalty, but not of the evil which is fault, by reason of what is said above.
These passages refer to the evil of penalty, and not to the evil of fault.
The effect of the deficient secondary cause is reduced to the first non-deficient cause as regards what it has of being and perfection, but not as regards what it has of defect; just as whatever there is of motion in the act of limping is caused by the motive power, whereas what there is of obliqueness in it does not come from the motive power, but from the curvature of the leg. And, likewise, whatever there is of being and action in a bad action, is reduced to God as the cause; whereas whatever defect is in it is NOT caused by God, but by the deficient secondary cause.
The sinking of a ship is attributed to the sailor as the cause, from the fact that he does not fulfil what the safety of the ship requires; but God does not fail in doing what is necessary for the safety of all. Hence there is no parity.
Graham3
Hi Visci and Graham,
I enjoyed your answers, nevertheless, the original question was "what is the theme of the Bible"? My answer to this question at first should have been JESUS IS THE THEME OF THE BIBLE (see Luke 19:10) and is now my corrected answer.
The original question was "what is the theme of the Bible"? My answer to this question at first should have been JESUS IS THE THEME OF THE BIBLE (see Luke 19:10) and is now my corrected answer. [/quote]
Iguess we can just toss out the old testament Huh?
Graham3,
Well has the Scripture spoken, "Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ."
The passage you quote as 1 Kings 2:6 is 1 Samuel 2:6 for reference sake. Why you would think that God did not make death is beyond me, who else would or could have? The Bible has 66 books corresponding to the 66 chapters of Isaiah, the book of "Wis." is not one of them. The proofs of the Bible are self contained. The phrase, "God hath not made death," is not found in his word, seeing he made all things.
No sir, your sophistry simply robs God of his glory. Who created the lake of fire?Quote:
](Proverbs 16:4) The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
No sir, God created death just as he did life.Quote:
](Matthew 25:41) Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Satan could not even persecute Job without God's permission and could not kill him.Quote:
]Samuel 2:3-8
(3) Talk no more so exceeding proudly; let not arrogancy come out of your mouth: for the LORD is a God of knowledge, and by him actions are weighed.
(4) The bows of the mighty men are broken, and they that stumbled are girded with strength.
(5) They that were full have hired out themselves for bread; and they that were hungry ceased: so that the barren hath born seven; and she that hath many children is waxed feeble.
(6) The LORD killeth, and maketh alive: he bringeth down to the grave, and bringeth up.
(7) The LORD maketh poor, and maketh rich: he bringeth low, and lifteth up.
8 He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth are the LORD'S, and he hath set the world upon them.
(Deuteronomy 32:39) See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.
God rules in the kingdom of men.Quote:
](Job 1:12) And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.
(Job 2:6) And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life.
To say that God is not in control, even of the evil in the world, is to be completely ignorant of his word. There are many more examples I could relate in scripture to support this fact.Quote:
](Daniel 4:17) This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.
Quote:
]Matthew 10:29 Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father.
A Jackson,
Certainly Christ and man's salvation is a dominate theme of the Scriptures but it is only part and parcel with the main theme, God's glory.
The over riding theme of the Bible is God's glory, all else is subordinate to that, including the plan of salvation. The Bible describes God as the King of glory, the Lord of glory, the God of glory. "... in his temple doth every one speak of [his] glory," "let the whole earth be filled [with] his glory."Quote:
]
John 12:27-28
27 Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour. 28 Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, [saying], I have both glorified [it], and will glorify [it] again.
Romans 15:9 And that the Gentiles might glorify God for [his] mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name.
Revelation 15:4 Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? For [thou] only [art] holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest.
John 13:31 Therefore, when he was gone out, Jesus said, Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in him.
John 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
Matthew 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
1 Corinthians 6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
To understand this is the only way to understand God's word and the history of mankind.
Hi Vsicj,
Without Jesus there is no glorifying God. See John 6:44.
Quote:
Hi Vsicj,
Without Jesus there is no glorifying God. See John 6:44.
Could you explain how you come to that conclusion from John 6:44?Quote:
]John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Quote:
]Isaiah 49:3 And said unto me, Thou [art] my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.
Quote:
]Ezekiel 28:22 And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I [am] against thee, O Zidon; and I will be glorified in the midst of thee: and they shall know that I [am] the LORD, when I shall have executed judgments in her, and shall be sanctified in her.
YsicjQuote:
]Haggai 1:8 Go up to the mountain, and bring wood, and build the house; and I will take pleasure in it, and I will be glorified, saith the LORD.
Hi Vsicj,
Tell me if I am wrong. But the question is "what is the theme of the Bible"?
Your answers address what our PURPOSE while here on earth and not what the theme of the Bible is.
If the question was "what is our purpose on earth"? I would agree wholeheartedly that our purpose is to glorify God.
Nevertheless, the theme of the Bible from Genesis to Revelation is Jesus.
Yes, Christ Jesus is a major theme of Scripture, but is secondary to the glory of God. The salvation of man is not the primary theme of the Bible nor the main object of God's plan and creation. If man's salvation was the main object, God would have no problem in saving all men by simply covering all by the blood of Christ automatically.
This is where many have failed in their ministries, compromising the glory of God in favour of the salvation of men failing at both. It is also why their understanding of the Scriptures and its application in history is lacking.
The main theme of Scripture is the glory, honor and majesty of God. The plan of salvation is so constructed as to glorify God. Whenever men glorify themselves, as in the bragging on the unsinkability of the Titanic, God's honor and glory supersede the salvation of men.
You cannot reduce the bible to a single theme, whether that's the theme of god's glory, the redemption of creation, or whatever. Even if we concede that all things are done to god's glory, it does not follow that the glory of god is the theme of the bible. It does not even follow that it is the primary theme.
In my opinion, to discern the theme of the bible, we must take seriously its form. The bible comes to us as a story that is commented upon by the prophets and celebrated in the psalms and analyzed in the proverbs and the other wisdom writings. But the story is primary, and the other stuff is secondary.
So the question "what is the theme of the bible" devolves to "what is the point of the biblical story"?
Mo
I think we can find the answer if we go to the very beginning and the very end of The Bible.
Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Jhn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Rev 22:21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ [be] with you all. Amen.
Now from this we can tell Jesus Christ is mentioned both in the beginning and in the end. As we study the Bible we find that through out the Old Testament and New Testament Jesus is the focus.
Jesus is a King and therefore a king must have a kingdom. Revelation goes into detail on The Kingdom. Also Jesus told us to pray "Thy kingdom come."
The main theme is the kingdom of God. In the kingdom of God, all of the other suggested major themes are included and given proper place. In addition, the kingdom of God includes other themes important for our understanding of the Bible, such as creation, the Biblical teaching about angels and demons, the doctrine of final judgment and everlasting punishment. Christ Himself remains a central theme of the Bible because as the King, He is the center of the kingdom, its very essence. Redemption as a central theme is understood as the drama of God's restoring the kingdom to its original purpose. For after God created His kingdom, man led it into sin through covenantal rebellion.
The re-occuring theme of the Bible is summed up as or is called Agape "LOVE"
Yours In Christ Jesus,
Rev. Daniel Pangelinan
Be thou not righteous overmuch; for why shouldest thou die?
God is God! He can do anything He wants to do, and still be the Holy One I shall always worship.
In brief, the main theme of the Bible can be summed up as the vindication of God's sovereignty and the sanctification of His name, Jehovah (Psalm 83:18), by means of the Messianic kingdom under the rule of His son, Jesus Christ.Quote:
What is the theme of the Bible...
An easy way to understand this is to consider a few key sections. The opening account in the Bible, Genesis chapters 1-3, explains how Jehovah created the earth and placed mankind upon it to care for it. Furthermore, humans would live eternally as long as they remained obedient. Death was only a consequence of deliberate disobedience and sin. But Satan, a rebellious angel, contradicted Jehovah's statement that disobedience would bring death to mankind, thereby challenging God's truthfulness and the rightfulness of His rule. Satan later went even further, claiming that when under trial mankind as a whole would not remain obedient to God out of love, but instead would only obey when they had something to gain. (Job chapters 1 and 2)
The Bible concludes at Revelation with a far-reaching series of prophecies that continue being fulfilled in our day (and still extend into the future.) Revelation 21 begins with these thrilling words:
Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away." Then He who sat on the throne said, "Behold, I make all things new." And He said to me, "Write, for these words are true and faithful." (NKJV)
The primary theme of the Bible, then, is a development of the results of Satan's challenge and a gradual revealing of God's purposes regarding how the issues would finally be resolved: the establishment of the Messianic kingdom to vindicate His sovereignty and the restoration of the earthly paradise He originally purposed.
Which then leads us to...
Daniel chapter 2 contains an account of a prophetic dream given to Babylonian King Nebuchadnezzar that showed a series of kingdoms or governments that would rule on the earth. After listing the kingdoms, the prophecy concludes at verse 44:Quote:
... and what does it have to do with the end of this system of things?
"And in the days of these kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed; and the kingdom shall not be left to other people; it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever." (NKJV)
So the establishment of the Messianic kingdom will mean the destruction of all earthly rulership and governments. Note how Revelation 16:14-16 gives more detail:
For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty...And they gathered them together to the place called in Hebrew, Armageddon. (NKJV)
Many people believe that Armageddon is some kind of global self-destruction, but the Bible explains that it is God's war against the governments of the earth, and it is necessary in order for the Messianic kingdom to rule over the earth. That is what the Bible means by "the end of this system of things." It will mean the removal (at long last) of the wicked earthwide system that has developed since the Garden of Eden under Satan's influence.
This is a lot to cover in a few paragraphs! If/when you have more questions, ask one of Jehovah's Witnesses next time they visit your home.
Chris
First, as some have said in a number of places, let's get this thread back on track. It was originally a question as to the theme of The Bible. Secondly, someone said that there is not one theme of The Bible. However, that is definitely not the case. THE theme of the Bible is Jesus and his sacrifice which was intended to be the means by which all mankind can come to salvation. Yes, God's glory is quite prevalent throughout The Bible. However, as A Jackson pointed out, it is through Christ that God's glory is ultimately shown and proven. In fact, some of YSICJ's own quotes prove this point in opposition to their use in this particular posting. For example, "John 13:31 *Therefore, when he was gone out, Jesus said, Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in him."
Now, if anyone is interested, I am going to start a new thread in the hopes of straightening out some misquotes and misunderstandings, in terms of exactly what The Word says. Look for it under the title "His Word." One of the main things I will address is the fact that one needs to quote passages in context and then only after carefully studying various translations, and where possible the original language versions of The Bible.
In His Service,
Hisservant
[QUOTE=ysicj]Quote:
]Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things].
Amos 3:6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? Shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done [it]?
QUOTE]
As a person of many faiths that all are the same in the end in the ultimate reality, Isaiah 45:7 is what I've believed all along. That God is all things, even the evil and has created all things from God's own self. God is the sun, the stars, the space in between, the air, my flesh, the thoughts in my head. There is nothing that is not God. God is all there is.
CELTEARTH, you are free to believe what you like but it's not correct to say that it's scriptural!Quote:
Originally Posted by celtearth
In these two scriptures, the KJV translators rendered an original language word as "evil." But this word can mean any of the following depending on context: evil, distress, misery, injury, calamity, adversity, injury, wrong, evil (ethical). Maybe in 17th century England when the KJV was produced, the word "evil" was understood to have a variety of meanings and the readers would not have made the same mistake. Modern translators, however, have been more careful with the context of these verses so we see NIV using "disaster" and the NASB using "calamity."
Is God able to create disaster and calamity? Certainly--for those who are wicked and deserving of such punishment (for example, the Flood, the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah and in the future battle of Armageddon.) But that in no way makes him responsible for all disasters nor does it make God the source of moral or ethical evil.
In fact, in all these cases God is taking action to remove moral evil.
Chris
The more I think about this, the scarier it gets! If we start to think that anything we do is God's will, this can lead to absolute moral chaos.Quote:
Originally Posted by celtearth
Someone can justify any action with this thinking...
Chris
My point is - what about all the translations not just from 17th century to now, but also the 1600 years before that. What about the political people in power who had the power to burn books, and change things the way they saw fit. I think the Also I don't think God has a penis and testicles nor a deep voice for that matter, so I wouldn't call God a him.Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisl
And what's up with all these people getting all up in arms about a book that was written by men from the middle east over 2000 years ago. Most American's think people from the middle east think backwards. What makes people think they thought any better 2000 years ago? I mean Revelations is so twisted and fantasy like with dragons, chariots and trumpets, what makes one think the stories of Sodom and Gomorrah aren't any more of wild stories written by men with wild imaginations interpretting the events around them the way they imagined them to be. In the middle east, many women have to walk behind their husbands because of dominion over them, not unlike pieces of meat for their own pleasure. How different is the bible in describing women's role in the world?
My interpretation of the bible is that it's nothing more than political and social issues written by prejudiced, biggotted men from the middle east. The only one that made any sense in the bible was Jesus, the rest of it is simply political garbage that people spew forth to justify their own interests and wishes.
Just to prove how psychotic the people were back then, just look at what they did to Jesus, a good, and pure person. I really don't think I'm going to listen to anything written by them. I will however, listen to the positive things Jesus had to say. Love is all there is, the rest is just garbage.
So you are separate from God then, you separate yourself by saying you are not a part of God. However, I did not say that choices people make are God's will, meaning "this is what God wants" but what I mean is that all possibilities are available to us to choose what we wish, We have free will. However, all the choices are available to us because of God. God is all there is.Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisl
It sounds to me like most Christians believe god is all there is, but just don't know it. For example, if Jesus's death was God's will, then were all the people who were involved in his death just like robots lead by god. No, they made their choices, they had free will. But some people would say that only evil could drive the people to do such a horrible act, so it must be the devils work. So what's it going to be. Christians can't make up their minds about God or the Devil, who's making who do what?
I'd say people have to stop blaming other things like the devil and start taking responsibility for their own actions because on earth all options are open to us, we have free will.
Some say God has the power to destroy - (sounds like Zeus to me, even the description of God in the Old bible seems to be an awful lot like Zeus). See the problems here, it's because the bible is so convoluted and full of contradictions that people simply interpret things as they wish. Why? Because not so smart people wrote it 2000 years ago in caves in the middle east.
Well, Jesus didn't view the scriptures that way. What about all the times he said "It is written"? What about all the scriptures Jesus himself quoted and fulfilled? Surely if we respect him, and he respected them, we should not be so hasty to dismiss the scriptures as garbage.Quote:
Originally Posted by celtearth
The Bible simply isn't the way you describe it. Maybe somebody else made it look that way to you but it's not the truth.
Chris
I went round and round with someone else about this recently and it turned out that what he called contradictions were actually either silly claims made by others about what the Bible said or else passages taken out of context and willfully misapplied. It had nothing to do with what the Bible itself said. He just wanted to insist that the Bible was corrupt and would not consider any reasoning or evidence.Quote:
Originally Posted by celtearth
Is that how you feel, or are you willing to take an open-minded look to see if perhaps you haven't been shown what the Bible really says?
BTW, some of those who wrote the Bible include kings and a physician, not really "not so smart people...in caves." But they all gave credit to God for what they did and wrote.
Chris
Bush is the current "king" or emperor as you may. Do you think he's smart. LOL. And he also said God whispered in his ear.
What about the book Conversations with God. Have you ever read it? He claims what is written in his books are inspired by God. So, for some reason, many Christians believe that God talked to people thousands of years ago to write books, but doesn't do so today. Why not?
Quick contradiction - God is all loving and all forgiving, but he'll send you to burn in hell to suffer for eternity. God gives you free will, but you'll go to hell if you don't follow his politics.
My point is the Bible writers were not illiterate bushmen as you seem to think. In fact, the prophet Daniel held a high-level position in the court of the king of Babylon. Even those who had humble lives cannot be dismissed like you are doing. After all, a postal clerk came up with the theory of relativity.Quote:
Originally Posted by celtearth
As to whether God whispered in W's ear, you can judge by his actions if it's true. Just because someone claims to be a Christian doesn't mean they are. As in all things, judge by comparing their actions with their words.
Because the Bible is complete and God continues to speak to all mankind through it. The Bible itself tells us that miraculous gifts like prophecy, speaking in tongues and further writings would eventually cease.Quote:
So, for some reason, many Christians believe that God talked to people thousands of years ago to write books, but doesn't do so today. Why not?
Before I learned what the Bible said I used to say I'd change my mind about God if he actually spoke to humans from heaven like he used to. But you know what? Even people in Jesus' day who saw miracles and heard God speak didn't believe. It's the heart that matters. Those who genuinely seek God with honest hearts and open minds will recognize the truth when they see it in the Bible. But if those who do not want God will deny a voice from heaven or even a resurrection before their very eyes, how do you think they will view a book?
It's Godly wisdom to provide a book that can distinguish people's inner selves. It is a genuine miracle and evidence of divine inspiration. No human could have produced such a book, let alone 40 men over 1600 years...
Quick answer: that's one of those "silly claims made by others" that isn't true. The Bible does not teach that God keeps his own private torture chamber. Many churches teach this, but they have deviated from what the Bible really says. Think about these scriptures:Quote:
Quick contradiction - God is all loving and all forgiving, but he'll send you to burn in hell to suffer for eternity. God gives you free will, but you'll go to hell if you don't follow his politics.
In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return. -- Genesis 3:19
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. -- Romans 6:23
For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. -- Ecclesiastes 9:5
And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my heart. -- Jeremiah 7:31The Bible teaches that the penalty for sin is death--returning to the dust--in other words, nonexistence, with no thought or pain. Not an eternity of conscious torture. No loving God would do what the hellfire doctrine claims. It's more than silly, actually. It's downright blasphemous!
As far as freewill is concerned, you must decide what you want. You seem to be saying you want the freedom but no consequences or responsibility for your actions, but you know it just doesn't work that way. Freedom of choice is always relative.
You are granted freewill but in order to benefit fully you must exercise it within the guidelines God establishes.
Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go. O that thou hadst hearkened to my commandments! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea: -- Isaiah 48:17-18
Chris
This thread is a good example of why organised religionis a big pain in the . Even people form the same religion will argue about the tedious things - can't agree on anything. This has been the cause of wars and deaths for thousands of years. Not for me, no thank you, I'd rather hang around good people whose views are not blinded by their so-called faith and who won't chastise you for your different points of view.
I'm sorry, I can't believe that the entire universe and all that is within it could be contained in one book written by men. It's also a convenient thing for the writers to say that this book is complete and God can't speak to people after the bible except through the words that those men wrote, because it gives those men the upper hand in saying they are the one's God chose. Isn't that what all wars are about anyway. The old "I'm the chosen one" attitude. I mean look at the bible, according to this Jewish book of God, Israel is the Chosen land and the Jews are the chosen people, everyone else are gentiles. Well of course the Jewish people would say this, it's a Jewish book for goodness sake.Quote:
Because the Bible is complete and God continues to speak to all mankind through it. The Bible itself tells us that miraculous gifts like prophecy, speaking in tongues and further writings would eventually cease.
Buddhism is the perfect example. Buddhism teaches in much nicer terms, to just shut up your own mind and listen to God, the God within. Which is also what Jesus taught. Buddhism is greatly revolved around meditation. That is, listening to God. Christianity focuses more on praying, that is your own thoughts and desires projected to God. There's a problem there, your own desires get in the way. Praying often involves wanting or asking for something, but not always of course. I do believe ask and you shall receive though.Quote:
Before I learned what the Bible said I used to say I'd change my mind about God if he actually spoke to humans from heaven like he used to. But you know what? Even people in Jesus' day who saw miracles and heard God speak didn't believe. It's the heart that matters. Those who genuinely seek God with honest hearts and open minds will recognize the truth when they see it in the Bible. But if those who do not want God will deny a voice from heaven or even a resurrection before their very eyes, how do you think they will view a book?
And why not? It's just that with the Roman empire, this book was pushed on people and people were made to accept it as the one and only book of the universe.Quote:
It's Godly wisdom to provide a book that can distinguish people's inner selves. It is a genuine miracle and evidence of divine inspiration. No human could have produced such a book, let alone 40 men over 1600 years...
Quick answer: that's one of those "silly claims made by others" that isn't true. The Bible does not teach that God keeps his own private torture chamber. Many churches teach this, but they have deviated from what the Bible really says. Think about these scriptures:
That could have easily been written by man, it's quite a simple minded matter.Quote:
In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return. -- Genesis 3:19
That was could have easily been written by man, and could you elaborate on ALL the interpretations the bible explains this DEATH to be from front cover to back. I'm sure you'll find some hellishness in there.Quote:
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. -- Romans 6:23
Poor them. I guess god didn't love the dead enough to give them a second chance. Could you please explain why some people are born with debilitating lives. Why would God give some the opportunity from birth to lead a great life and others a horrible existence from the moment they enter the world, where's the freedom here. I'd say a more balanced and loving God would grant them karma, I mean didn't Jesus say that people must be born again to reach the kingdom of heaven. Therefore, you must purify yourself through being born again. I really don't think God only gives people a measly 70 years on average or less to do everything in their souls existence to become pure and godlike, to return to the source. What about the people born in the jungles who know nothing of Jesus their whole lives. You mean to tell me, they'll just turn into dust again. As if God doesn't love them enough to allow them eternal life. These are just some of the things, this book - that claims to be the be all and end all of existence - simply doesn't answer.Quote:
For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. -- Ecclesiastes 9:5
Good gosh, people were psycho back then. Burning people, I wonder what was going on in peoples heads back then. Oh, then again this kind of stuff still goes on in the middle east. Heck, it even went on in America not so long ago.Quote:
And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my heart. -- Jeremiah 7:31
It's disgusting for people to say that God would be so evil.Quote:
The Bible teaches that the penalty for sin is death--returning to the dust--in other words, nonexistence, with no thought or pain. Not an eternity of conscious torture. No loving God would do what the hellfire doctrine claims. It's more than silly, actually. It's downright blasphemous!
You've definitely taken my words and twisted them, if you read a previous post you'll see that I think people should be responsible for all their actions. Karma, it'll come back to you. An eye for an eye a tooth for a tooth, what you do will come back to you. It's the law of relativity, a universal law which is part of the universe which God created. That's why the whole devil thing is so ridiculous, it's casting blame on some myth outside yourself, people have choice and you reap what you sow.Quote:
As far as freewill is concerned, you must decide what you want. You seem to be saying you want the freedom but no consequences or responsibility for your actions, but you know it just doesn't work that way. Freedom of choice is always relative.
And yet again, dictator God gives you free will, but as long as you live the laws those men, politicians and kings who wrote it you'll be OK. (complete sarcasm)Quote:
You are granted freewill but in order to benefit fully you must exercise it within the guidelines God establishes.
Oh, there's that whole Israel thing again, of course a Jewish book glorifies Israel. I mean could it be any other way really. Everyone else are simply the gentiles. Oh and hmmm, lets see, an Arabic book, the Koran glorifies the Muslims. Oh how convenient. I wonder how that happened. Hmmm, is it the whole, I'm right their wrong attitude. God loves us, the rest are outsiders.Quote:
Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go. O that thou hadst hearkened to my commandments! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea: -- Isaiah 48:17-18
Also wouldn't you say, that it's the politicians and religious leaders that killed Jesus because they saw him as a threat. That he was taking so many people from the other churches, because his following started to grow so much. The religious leaders, hand in hand with the politicians, decided that Jesus was such a great threat to their money making churches that he must be done away with. That in the minds of the religious leaders, Jesus was corrupting the minds of people from those churches/ or synagogues,of course, and they would lose their power over the masses, their money.
The Bible promises a resurrection that will provide many with the "second chance" you are looking for.Quote:
Originally Posted by celtearth
I don't have time to answer all these points. Try this for now:Quote:
Could you please explain why some people are born with debilitating lives. Why would God give some the opportunity from birth to lead a great life and others a horrible existence from the moment they enter the world, where's the freedom here.
Why Does God Allow Us to Suffer?
All of these questions and more are answered. Just because someone told you the Bible doesn't have such answers doesn't make it so. Have you EVER looked for yourself rather than just blindly accepting what others say?Quote:
These are just some of the things, this book - that claims to be the be all and end all of existence - simply doesn't answer.
If all the beliefs and teachings you mention are confusing and contradictory, have you considered the possibility that the teachings are the problem, not the Bible?
Didn't you say...Quote:
You've definitely taken my words and twisted them, if you read a previous post you'll see that I think people should be responsible for all their actions.
I'm assuming your position is that it was a contradiction for God to provide freewill but then set limits and consequences for abusing it. Since eternal torture in hell is baloney, I'm assuming your beef is really with the "limits" on freewill. If you think people should be responsible for their actions, then what exactly is your issue with God placing boundaries on free will? Doesn't a boundary or limit mean there is responsibility and a consequence for going beyond it? Otherwise, it's not a boundary.Quote:
God gives you free will, but you'll go to hell if you don't follow his politics.
If you agree, then I apologize--my mistake. But isn't the alternative saying you want the freedom to choose but you don't want responsibility for the outcome?
Jesus didn't view the devil as a myth. I can't figure out your real view--you say you believe what Jesus says but then you deny what he said and believed. What parts of Jesus' teachings, if any, do you accept?Quote:
That's why the whole devil thing is so ridiculous, it's casting blame on some myth outside yourself, people have choice and you reap what you sow.
Dictator? I don't get that. In what way are God's requirements dictatorial? In the teaching to love others as yourself? In the golden rule? In insisting on honesty, morality and humility? If everyone followed the Bible's teachings, there would be no war, no crime, no hunger, no oppression. Some dictatorship!Quote:
And yet again, dictator God gives you free will, but as long as you live the laws those men, politicians and kings who wrote it you'll be OK.
What you're really saying is, you want to decide for yourself what is right and wrong and you don't want someone else telling you what to do or not to do--even if such actions are harmful to yourself and others.
Well, that's the same freedom that Adam and Eve insisted on.
The Bible shows that God offers life to any who really want it and are willing to respect the boundaries he sets.Quote:
God loves us, the rest are outsiders.
Absolutely. Christendom, and any other organization that mixes religion with politics, is all about money and power. But the Bible is not Christendom. Christendom claims to follow the Bible, but they don't.Quote:
Also wouldn't you say, that it's the politicians and religious leaders that killed Jesus because they saw him as a threat. That he was taking so many people from the other churches, because his following started to grow so much. The religious leaders, hand in hand with the politicians, decided that Jesus was such a great threat to their money making churches that he must be done away with. That in the minds of the religious leaders, Jesus was corrupting the minds of people from those churches/ or synagogues,of course, and they would lose their power over the masses, their money.
The merging of religion and politics has been the source of the most heinous wickedness in history. The Bible wisely instructs to keep separate from "the world."
OK, I've made an honest effort to ask you to reconsider what the Bible says. If you've made up your mind, I don't want to argue. This thread is looking more and more like the last guy who went round and round, throwing out every kind of accusation he could find but not agreeing to settle any individual point.
Chris
I never trusted satin, that's why I always buy silk.Quote:
Originally Posted by paulrigglez
ROFL!Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
And Paul, please, give it a rest. It's the off-the-wall stuff you're writing that makes people question the Bible.
Chris
You have asked a question that is best answered by experience; however, the Bible holds Truths, Words of Life and Light to dispel darkness; therefore, the theme of the Bible = Life in the Kingdom of God; As far as the end of this world's system, you must first understand principles of Faith, if you are relating this question unto How a believer in Jesus Christ must live and acquire that which is needed, wanted; Now if you are referring to the New Heaven and the New Earth, man without revelation from God can not sufficiently answer you
I've been away. Anyway. This is about the bible and the catholic church and a movie that's coming out.
OK so you know the movie - The Exorcism of Emily Rose. Well, in the preview on TV the priest kissed the crucifix, I thought this was very much related to magic. I suspect in the film the priest is to use this crucifix in some way to exorcise emily; banish evil. As in a magic talisman or object that has been given "powers". An object that has had a spell cast upon it, or an object that transmits powers because of either intention or a channeling of energy.
This seems quite Pagan/wiccan to me. What do you think?
Also what about the rituals of drinking the blood and eating the flesh of Jesus, isn't this quite bizarre and relates much to the sacrifice of animals. What I don't understand is how people think that killing a living creature gets them in the good book of God and God showers down blessings and gifts for such a barbaric thing. It's quite disgusting. These types of things are still done in the middle east where I think last year the blood bath had 1.7 million cows and lambs slaughtered in the streets causing rivers of blood. I just don't understand this barbaric behaviour and how it's meant to be heavenly, it's quite limbic I'd say. Just like jesus was compared to the sacrificial lamb, ughh. It's so very limbic. In the case of Jesus slaughter by politicians and church leaders, the gift from God was eternal life. Ughh, isn't that limbic! It all stems from the same backwards thinking of sacrificing someone or something else's life for your own well being. How demented and selfish. I think humans are so selfish.
Duh. I know what the symbolism is. Ughh! You're self righteous ego has got you going on an attitude of negativity AGAIN. Regardless of it's symbolism, the Literal actions are barbaric, I think God would choose a much more enlightened approach. I mean would omnipotent God really need to put his Son through such torture. No, of course not. God has a choice, but without the devil Jesus has no purpose. So it is the Devil who has the power in this religion, the power to cause God to have his own Son suffer to save the people from this all powerful Devil man. Ughh, that is so lame, so Limbic and shows weakness in God. It's ridiculous. It's amazing that a religion is built around Satan. Heaven and hell are here on earth, now and forever. Jesus said that. So by believing so fervently in the Devil you create that consciousness, you keep the consciousness of Satan alive. I mean honestly how many wars have been started over fights because of religious dogma. It's evil, it's not love. If your mind lets go of the fear, embraces the love, then you become closer to God, but by holding onto these fearful beliefs you grow further from God because God is Love.Quote:
Originally Posted by paulrigglez
Do you know anything about Taoism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Paganism, Sufism, Gnosticism, Islam, etc. No? Your brain only holds about 1000 and so odd pages of words written by middle eastern men over years compilated in a book? If that, I suspect only just a few stories and dogmas here and there that were told to you by your elders who had their own ideas and interpretations. Just think of this - No 2 people think EXACTLY alike. Nobody will agree 100% with someone else's interpretation of the bible. So who's right? Nobody, it's their own ideas, it always is.
The bible is outside you, God is within. Quiet your mind, let go of your own thoughts that stem from those imposed on you by a book, by churches and by society. God is within, all the answers are found there, if you listen. The kingdom of God is within you - Jesus said that. All religions are one religion, it is all the same in the end. We are all from the same Source, it's these external things that get us further from remembering the Source. God is God and nobody can change that. God is for all, not just those who read a book written by middle eastern men. Forget the dogma, and see the light. The rules, regulations, politics, rituals are for not. Love is all there is, Love is all that matters. Love your neighbor, not your politics. If you are so stuck in the politics you'll never be able to experience the peace of God.
The overriding theme that permeates the whole Bible is the vindication of God’s sovereignty and the ultimate fulfillment of his purpose for the earth, by means of his Kingdom under Christ, the promised Seed, was wrapped up in the first prophecy concerning ‘the seed of the woman.’Ge 3:15
God told Abraham: “By means of your seed all nations of the earth will certainly bless themselves.” Ge 22:18 Over 800 years later, renewed assurance was given to Abraham’s descendant King David, and with the passing of more time God’s prophets kept this flame of hope burning brightly. (2Sa 7:12, 16; Isa 9:6, 7) More than 1,000 years after David and 4,000 years after the original prophecy in Eden, the Promised Seed himself appeared, Jesus Christ, the legal heir to “the throne of David his father.” Lu 1:31-33; Ga 3:16
This Kingdom under Christ the Promised Seed is the means by which the vindication of Jehovah’s name will be accomplished. Following through on this theme, the Bible magnifies God’s personal name to a greater extent than any other book; the name occurs throughout the Bible as “Jehovah”.
Yes “God’s Kingdom “ it the theme of the Bible, and under Jesus Christ’s rule as the king of that kingdom Jehovah God’s name will be known to all and his purpose will be fulfilled when Jesus rules the earth as king of that long waited Kingdom.
Take care,
Hope12
:o
Graham3,
That was an excellent post.
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)
| All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:31 AM. |