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  • Oct 23, 2006, 11:15 AM
    Mahlia513
    Islam & Christianity
    I am 18 years old and have been raised as an Arab-Christian. My father is Orthodox and my mother is Catholic. Both sides of my family are very old fashioned and strict. I am very conservative and have old fashion morals myself. All of my friends are Arabic, some of them being Christian and some of them being Muslim. Lately, I have been thinking about converting. I think I am valid in saying that I want to convert because I see the difference between Christian and Muslim families. Not to say that Arab-Christian families can't be strict, but I feel like my morals and values lean more towards the Muslim side. I don't mean this as far the religion goes, just the morals and values that go along with it however. If that makes any sense? I feel like religion is just something that you are born into and I feel like people should get to chose their religion. I do have some family that is Muslim and I have talked to them about this and they support it because they think I am doing it for the right reasons. My father however is a very strong Christian and I am afraid that he would be very angry with me and not talk to me. I'm scared of what my Christian side of the family and my Christian friends will think. Please give me as much advice as you have.
  • Oct 23, 2006, 12:37 PM
    ScottGem
    First, I think you need to do some more research. The morals and values of Islam are pretty much the same as Christianity. Both are based on the Ten Commandments and what's referred to as the Judeo-Christian ethic. Some Islamic extremists aside, moraly and ethicly, there is not much difference.

    The major difference between the three major religions is the rules that govern their daily lives and how they worship. As far as I know, Islam is the strictest of the three. It requires greater control of what one can eat and drink. How and when one worships. How it deals with many other issues. For example, I was reading recently that Muslims cannot borrow money. Therefore they cannot be come home owners unless they save enough to pay cash. This also means they can't use credit cards etc.

    So I suggest you need to learn more about what you would be letting yourself in for.
  • Oct 23, 2006, 02:19 PM
    inaz4sun
    If you feel that religion is just something you are born into, trust me, you are not a Christian. You may call yourself one, but you are not. So instead of kidding yourself further, maybe just call yourself a muslim. Religion isn't the issue, its personal relationship with God. Without that everything else is meaningless.
  • Oct 23, 2006, 04:10 PM
    ScottGem
    You're correct that religion is about your personal relation with God. But I don't know where you get the rest of that garbage.
  • Oct 24, 2006, 07:28 AM
    inaz4sun
    What part was garbage? Was it garbage or just a truth you don't want to acknowledge. The two are different things.
  • Oct 24, 2006, 08:00 AM
    ScottGem
    I was referring to your statement about what being a Christian means. I think he's correct that religion is something you are born into. Whether you decide that its for you or not should be a personal choice. But being a Christian involves believing in a set of values, and believing in the people who set those values. Those are things that are taught to us from our families who practice their religion. But it should be clear that were ARE born into our religions.
  • Oct 24, 2006, 09:07 AM
    inaz4sun
    Well you might be born into a religious family, that is a family who does some religious things, but that doesn't make you a Christian. And you can choose a religion to "practice" but "practising" a religion is meaningless as far as salvation is concerned. Only the one true God through His only Son Jesus can save you, and not because of your family or your practising of some religion or adhering to some rules, it is, as Scripture clearly says, "...by faith alone, and that not of yourself less anyone should boast."
  • Oct 24, 2006, 09:47 AM
    Mahlia513
    Religion is completely something you are born into and I think that it should be a personal choice. And don't judge me and say that I am not a Christian or that I have no personal relationship with God. It's just that I am in a culture where I can clearly see both sides of both religions and basically whatever religion you are born into, is what you believe. But that's always been a weird thought to me because I don't feel like one of them is the "wrong" religion. I don't think that all Muslim people are going to hell because they aren't Christian or vise versa. Religion is a weird thing to me, but I feel like regardless of anything, it is a personal choice. And as far as I can see things, the difference between the families that I grew up with is that Islam is much more strict. I just feel like my conservative ways are more associated with Islam then Christianity.

    Yes inaz4sun, you are a Christian and you believe there is no other way to happiness besides through Lord Jesus Christ, but how do you explain someone who is truly truly happy but is Muslim? I feel like if you grew up seeing things both ways like I did, you would be curious too.
  • Oct 24, 2006, 10:06 AM
    ScottGem
    Whether you feel more akin to Islam than Christianity or vice versa, is up to you. The problem I have with your initial post, that your reasons for feeling closer don't make a lot of sense.
  • Oct 24, 2006, 10:06 AM
    NeedKarma
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Mahlia513
    Religion is completely something you are born into and I think that it should be a personal choice.

    Um, isn't that contradictory?

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Mahlia513
    basically whatever religion you are born into, is what you believe

    Not necessarily. I, for instance, do not have the same beliefs as my parents and it does not affect our great relationship in any way.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Mahlia513
    But thats always been a weird thought to me because I don't feel like one of them is the "wrong" religion.

    That's very healthy actually - we need more people like that in this world. :)
  • Oct 24, 2006, 10:12 AM
    valinors_sorrow
    I was born into very vigorous atheism (a "religion" of its own even if its "science-based" LOL). Rejected that and looked into a great number of religions, came close to converting to Judaism, then completed the Rites to Christian Initiation, was baptised but left the Catholic Church to find my own spiritual path. Now when asked what I am (religion-wise) I am tempted to say "one of everything!" :p

    I am with NK - more religious humility and tolerance is needed in the world!
  • Oct 24, 2006, 10:28 AM
    Mahlia513
    I think you misunderstood me when I said "Religion is someothing that you're born into and I think it should be a personal choice." I was just trying to say that most of the time, or what I've seen growing up anyway, is that you believe whatever religion you are born into, but that it SHOULD be a personal choice. I just think that my Christian side of the family may feel a little betrayed and may even disown me.

    How did you tell your parents that you believed differently then they did? My father is very strict and I don't think he will take it easily.


    ScottGem, I feel I am more closer to Islam not because of their beliefs, on Mohammad being the profit or that people should pray to the East 5 times a day. I feel like that is what people are TOLD to do by their parents or family members that are of their religion. But what I FEEL I am more closer to in Islam is for example the conservativeness that women are supossed to portray and the fact that the women's lives are their husbands and their children. I have talked to my friends about this before and not ONE of my girlfriends doesn't want to be a mom and have a family. I feel that this is a woman's instinct and we are BORN with the desire to have chlidren and families and be mothers. Not that I don't want to have a small job and make some what of a living on my own when the children get older, but I do feel like it is the husbands responsibility to bring in the pay check. As I feel it is the women's responsibility to take care of the husband, the cleaning and the cooking. Maybe not ALL women feel this way, especially feminist woman or whatever, but in my culture that's how we are raised, to think this way. And Muslim families do this WAY more so then Christian families. From my experience anways. So this is how I see it, if women are so inclined and feel the need of this, then why fight it I guess? But again I am 18 and I'm afraid that I only see things like this because I am young.
  • Oct 24, 2006, 10:49 AM
    NeedKarma
    Sorry Mahlia, I did misunderstand the comment, sorry about that - thanks for setting me straight.

    I assume our parents are quite different people. My father was not very strict in that sense. He allowed enough rope to explore the world. I went to mass once in a while but after I got my own place I was independent of my parents and free to do as I wish.
  • Oct 24, 2006, 10:51 AM
    ScottGem
    I still (even more) say you need to do more research. I believe that most woman, but not all, do have the instinct to bear and raise children. But I definitely do not see that a woman has to make that her total focus. Frankly I think that the way Islam regulates and forces a woman into a subservient role is one of the most wrong things about it.

    As my daughter was growing up, my wife stayed home and took care of her and the home. But not solely. I had a very active role in both. As she got older and didn't need more care, my wife was able to go back to work to have something of her own life outside the home. Something I have no objection to, in fact, I encourage.

    The point is Islam doesn't give you the choice. And I am all about personal choice. There is nothing in Christianity that says you can't love your husband and family and spend your time taking care of them. But at least that is your choice, not dictated to you.
  • Oct 24, 2006, 10:52 AM
    31pumpkin
    I think that one may be born into a certain Religion, but when they are a certain age they definitely reaffirm their faith (as in becoming born-again).

    I think if one is perfectly happy being a Muslim, that is the reason why they remain so. It is when someone is not completely happy that they search for something else.

    My parents did all the sacraments for us when we were children, but they weren't very strict about being Catholic. As I got into my teens, we slipped further away( from going to church,etc.) My parents died when I was 18, and I never knew(until much later that I had a Comforter there to help me-for the asking) But God is faithful. He knows who are His.

    So, subjected to the opinions of man (the world) instead of the Glory of the Lord, I spent some 12 yrs. Working extra hard for treasure that bore little fruit.

    When I became born-again at 30, pregnant, and yes, even underwent an exorcism ( don't ask) Well, everything changed, from the inside out, & vice-versa if you will!

    Ever since I made Jesus Lord and Savior of my life- the Holy Spirit did the rest.(I don't mean I sat back ildly-if you know what I mean)

    I'm sorry for the TESTIMONY, but it's basically there to give you an example of my personal relationship with the Lord. I feel I don't just pray to the Lord. I feel He keeps me company wherever I go. It's not so restrictive as some other Faiths. I found it to be really liberating.

    Hope you can understand how I feel about my faith from this post.
  • Oct 24, 2006, 10:54 AM
    RickJ
    I agree that [most] Christians and Moslems stand side by side on moral issues. In fact, many other faith groups are also similar.

    I also partially agree on the "born into" issue: That is, that because one practices like he's been taught since he was born does not make him a Christian or Moslem, etc. It IS about how you view God and what group you believe holds the fullest truths that God has revealed to Man by special revelation... which for me is all about history and facts.

    Don't change the faith group you follow based on their moral positions. Keep reading and researching. With which one do you find the facts of the founder to be more believable?

    ... now, I've deleted and repasted and deleted and repasted several times... and will just go with it. Certainly I have not done the subject justice, as volumes and volumes have been written on it... but enough blabbering I suppose :o
  • Oct 24, 2006, 10:59 AM
    valinors_sorrow
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Mahlia513
    How did you tell your parents that you believed differently then they did? My father is very strict and I don't think he will take it easily.

    To be more responsible about what I posted, I have to admit to having had a very permissive family compared to you Mahlia. And yet, I would like to add that while family influence and cultural pressures are not inherently bad, it is important for each person to explore and discover their way in life, including choosing what kind of life and faith to follow. I want you to know I see you doing a beautiful job of that here, especially for someone your age. :)
  • Oct 24, 2006, 11:18 AM
    Mahlia513
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by RickJ
    I also partially agree on the "born into" issue: That is, that because one practices like he's been taught since he was born does not make him a Christian or Moslem, etc. It IS about how you view God and what group you believe holds the fullest truths that God has revealed to Man by special revelation...which for me is all about history and facts.

    Don't change the faith group you follow based on their moral positions. Keep reading and researching. With which one do you find the facts of the founder to be more believable?
    :o

    I feel like I can't base it on history and facts. Because I don't know who to believe! I feel like I have no other choice, but to base my religion on its morals and values rather then the history of it. I think that saying, "I chose to be this religion because the facts of the founder are more believable," is not a good way, for me anyway, to chose my religion. I have no idea who to believe or who is right. I don't think either is "the right" one based on history and facts or not. That's the part that confuses me. I guess I am just searching for something desperately to believe in, but I'm not one to rule out other options or religions and I don't see how other people can do that either.

    I will definitely do more research on this, but I feel like there is no ending answer. I have read books about Muslims converting to Christians and Christians converting to Muslims. It's just different I guess and even though I will Definitely keep reading and researching about this, I guess it's just solely up to me and what I believe in my heart is the right thing to do FOR ME.
  • Oct 24, 2006, 11:27 AM
    ScottGem
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Mahlia513
    but to base my religion on its morals and values rather then the history of it. I think that saying, "I chose to be this religion because the facts of the founder are more believable," is not a good way,

    The problem here is that most major religions have the SAME morals and mostly the same values. One of the major differences is in the way each treats women. Islam relagates women to second class status. They are considered more as property. They are considered only good for bearing children and taking care of the home. Sure, some Muslim men may hold their women in higher regard, but generally not in public.
  • Oct 24, 2006, 11:36 AM
    valinors_sorrow
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Mahlia513
    I feel like I can't base it on history and facts. Because I don't know who to believe! I feel like I have no other choice, but to base my religion on its morals and values rather then the history of it. I think that saying, "I chose to be this religion because the facts of the founder are more believable," is not a good way, for me anyways, to chose my religion. I have no idea who to believe or who is right. I don't think either is "the right" one based on history and facts or not. That's the part that confuses me. I guess I am just searching for something desperately to believe in, but I'm not one to rule out other options or religions and I don't see how other people can do that either.

    I will definetly do more research on this, but I feel like there is no ending answer. I have read books about Muslims converting to Christians and Christians converting to Muslims. It's just different I guess and even though I will DEFINETLY keep reading and researching about this, I guess it's just soley up to me and what I believe in my heart is the right thing to do FOR ME.

    If I may, since you are a reader, please consider reading a book I just finished called The Spiral Staircase by Karen Amrstrong. It may help in your journey to find your true faith. I am not attempting to sway you in any directions at all. There are no sides to this debate for me.
  • Oct 24, 2006, 11:37 AM
    Mahlia513
    I understand what you're saying, but trust me that's SUCH a stereotype! In Americanized-Muslim families the men RESPECT their wives completely! If you find a good guy anyway. My Muslim uncles have never treated their wives badly and hold a high respect for them because they do take care of them and the children. Sorry, I don't mean to be caddy, but that really bothers me when people hold that stereo type against Muslim men. They don't beat there wives either.
  • Oct 24, 2006, 11:38 AM
    NeedKarma
    Then there's that whole issue about leaving Islam that I didn't face.

    http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...=1119503544134
  • Oct 24, 2006, 01:10 PM
    31pumpkin
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Mahlia513
    I understand what you're saying, but trust me thats SUCH a stereotype!! In Americanized-Muslim families the men RESPECT their wives completely!! If you find a good guy anyways. My Muslim uncles have never treated their wives badly and hold a high respect for them because they do take care of them and the children. Sorry, I don't mean to be caddy, but that really bothers me when people hold that stereo type against Muslim men. They don't beat there wives either.


    Oh yes they do beat their wives! That especially if they are westernized. My 1st husband was Muslim. He tried to" break my hard head" for wearing shorts & enraging his jealousy of other men looking at me. That's beyond possessive! That's sick.
    Not to say that any other men don't beat on their wives for different things, but it's all abnormal.

    If the main reason for preferring to be a Muslim rather than some other religion is so that you like the way the women behave, then I feel sorry for that.
    Most of us just try to find someone compatible to love & share their life without restrictions & stereotyping.
  • Oct 24, 2006, 01:18 PM
    ScottGem
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Mahlia513
    I understand what you're saying, but trust me thats SUCH a stereotype!! In Americanized-Muslim families the men RESPECT their wives completely!! If you find a good guy anyways. My Muslim uncles have never treated their wives badly and hold a high respect for them because they do take care of them and the children. Sorry, I don't mean to be caddy, but that really bothers me when people hold that stereo type against Muslim men. They don't beat there wives either.

    I'm afraid its NOT a sterotype. It's a precept of the religion. I don't dispute that not all Muslim men, especially westernized ones treat their wives that way. But if they don't, they are not following the teachings of Islam that closely.

    I think your experience is the exception. Again, you need to do a LOT more research.
  • Oct 24, 2006, 01:21 PM
    Mahlia513
    Well I'm sorry to hear that you're first husband beat you or whatever, but half of my family is Muslim and most of my uncles came to America when they were 18! They would never lay a hand on their wives!! Muslim men who do beat their wives just make us look bad, but it also depends on what ethnicity the man is. I am Lebanese and that has never happened in my family! Yemens or other ethnicites may beat their wives, but they just make us Lebanese look bad! They should not be compared to each other! Lebanese is a completely different thing then Yemen or Palestinian, etc. That is SUCH a stereo type! And I really am sorry that you had that experience but trust me no good Arabic Muslim guy beats there wife.
  • Oct 24, 2006, 01:51 PM
    31pumpkin
    Well, he came from Lebanon in his early 20's and not 18. So that's a relief that he isn't one of your uncles! Just kidding!
    I meant the women were westernized. You may be limited to Muslim women only though. Even so, in America, they may want more freedom than what they have... one day!
  • Oct 24, 2006, 01:54 PM
    LUNAGODDESS
    It is taking me forever to drop my former faith... they just won't let me go... I wrote letters only to have them return... I made phone calls.. they tell me... I am just going through the change... what I found more interesting and supporting are those of my family that are Muslims and Lutheran faith... there seemed to less arguments about other faith... this will be your life at the end... you will have to live forever with that final decision... your father... if he is a true christian will and should not hate you for your new direction... open minds are and should be the trait of most true faith... the reaction of the fruit from the christian faith will be challenged in your decision and again no one should be disassociating you and wishing your death... when you make the choice... it is your heart condition that you should follow... now if you are underage then you will truly have to follow the direction of the father and mother... when you leave the house... if being a muslim is still within you... then that is what you should believe... these are challenging times and evil is working hard to collect his masses... do not hate the faith... just dis-like rotten fruit...
  • Nov 1, 2006, 10:19 AM
    greg49
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by LUNAGODDESS
    do not hate the faith...just dis-like rotten fruit...

    in response to Mahlia513's original question:

    I can agree with the above quote, though the rest of what she said is hard to grasp without reading the rest of the thread history.

    I would challenge you to read the Bible, and what Jesus said about himself, his purpose, and how we as humans fit into the whole big picture. These things will compel you to make a choice. There is no ambiguity, no wishy washy new age spirituality there.

    Obviously you must make your own decision for what you will believe, and it will affect you for eternity. Whatever examples of any religion you see exhibited in other humans, take it/them with a grain of salt, because we're all imperfect. In other words, don't let someones' interpretations of morals and values override the much more important absolute values that the God of the Old and New Testaments represents.

    Jesus made many clear statements that require a clear acceptance or rejection of Him and His claims. His deeds also impacted history in an undeniable and irreversible fashion, which also has to be reckoned with by each individual.

    So, read both the Quran and the Bible, and ask Him to help you see the Truth.

    May you quickly see the Light!
  • Nov 1, 2006, 10:38 AM
    pussycatman
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Mahlia513
    I am 18 years old and have been raised as an Arab-Christian. My father is Orthodox and my mother is Catholic. Both sides of my family are very old fashioned and strict. I am very conservative and have old fashion morals myself. All of my friends are Arabic, some of them being Christian and some of them being Muslim. Lately, I have been thinking about converting. I think I am valid in saying that I want to convert because I see the difference between Christian and Muslim families. Not to say that Arab-Christian families can't be strict, but I feel like my morals and values lean more towards the Muslim side. I don't mean this as far the religion goes, just the morals and values that go along with it however. If that makes any sense?? I feel like religion is just something that you are born into and I feel like people should get to chose their religion. I do have some family that is Muslim and I have talked to them about this and they support it because they think I am doing it for the right reasons. My father however is a very strong Christian and I am afraid that he would be very angry with me and not talk to me. I'm scared of what my Christian side of the family and my Christian friends will think. Please give me as much advice as you have.

    Hi Don't make enemies in choosing what you want, keep as you are you get both sides of a argument and god knows what you feel, You don't gain any medals by choosing one or the other I would think god would prefer someone who knows both sides of a story than just knowing one. CARL.
  • Nov 1, 2006, 07:23 PM
    ordinaryguy
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Mahlia513
    I feel like I can't base it on history and facts. Because I don't know who to believe! I feel like I have no other choice, but to base my religion on its morals and values rather then the history of it. I think that saying, "I chose to be this religion because the facts of the founder are more believable," is not a good way, for me anyways, to chose my religion. I have no idea who to believe or who is right. I don't think either is "the right" one based on history and facts or not. That's the part that confuses me. I guess I am just searching for something desperately to believe in, but I'm not one to rule out other options or religions and I don't see how other people can do that either.

    I will definetly do more research on this, but I feel like there is no ending answer. I have read books about Muslims converting to Christians and Christians converting to Muslims. It's just different I guess and even though I will DEFINETLY keep reading and researching about this, I guess it's just soley up to me and what I believe in my heart is the right thing to do FOR ME.

    As I see it, you are very fortunate to have been born into such a diverse family, and you are wise beyond your years in questioning the claims of the various religions to be the only right one. My own experience was limited to a single fundamentalist Christian denomination until I was older than you are now. It was a years-long struggle for me to break free of these narrow minded rigid views and find a larger perspective on the life of the spirit. I know it may be tempting to pick just one religion and limit your belief and experience as required by the teachers of that faith. But I would urge you to see each religious tradition as a different facet of the complex jewel of spiritual life and experience. Take the best of each, but give your exclusive moral allegiance to none. Those who rigidly adhere to one or the other of these religions will have trouble accepting your choice if it is anything other than the one they hold, and they may well reject or shun you for it. But if they truly love you they will come around eventually. Far better to follow the light of your own conscience wherever that leads you than to choose only out of fear of being ostracised. This may not lead you to the easiest life you could have, but I sense that you are far too intelligent and honest to be satisfied for long with a rigid orthodoxy of any kind.
  • Dec 18, 2006, 01:16 PM
    hadi88
    Quote:

    I'm afraid its NOT a sterotype. It's a precept of the religion. I don't dispute that not all Muslim men, especially westernized ones treat their wives that way. But if they don't, they are not following the teachings of Islam that closely.
    I totally disagree with you scotgem. I am sure you know there is a huge difference between cultures and religion, you can not put them on the same spot. If so called muslim men beat their wives, they are doing totally against the Islamic religion. Islam doesn't give permission to anyone to beat up one's wife.

    I would say those who do these kind of acts don't know about Islam because having a name like muslim or born in muslim family don't make you a muslim. To be a muslim one has to practice, I believe not just in Islam but in any other religion one do have to practice the religion to be a good follower of... and once one start practicing it becomes hard for one to hurt anybody.



    Check out the following links, about the women in Islam.

    http://islamqa.com/special/index.php...site=16&ln=eng

    http://www.irf.net/irf/faqonislam/index.htm
  • Dec 18, 2006, 01:30 PM
    ScottGem
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by hadi88
    I totally disagree with you scotgem. I am sure you know there is a huge difference between cultures and religion, you can not put them on the same spot. If so called muslim men beat their wives, they are doing totally against the Islamic religion. Islam doesnt give permission to anyone to beat up one's wife.

    I would say those who do these kind of acts don't know about Islam because having a name like muslim or born in muslim family don't make u a muslim. To be a muslim one has to practice, i believe not just in Islam but in any other religion one do have to practice the religion to be a good follower of .... and once one start practicing it becomes hard for one to hurt anybody.



    check out the following links, about the women in Islam.

    http://islamqa.com/special/index.php...site=16&ln=eng

    http://www.irf.net/irf/faqonislam/index.htm


    WHOA! You need to go back and read what I said. I never said anything about Muslim men beating their wives. You seened to have picked up on a throwaway comment by the OP that I responded to and totally misinterpeted what I actually said.

    What I have said in this thread that the Muslim culture generally holds women as second class citizens. Women have a place in the home and little more. I agreed that it was not true of all Muslims, but it is something taught in the culture.
  • Dec 18, 2006, 01:34 PM
    Starman
    Quote:

    ... Not to say that Arab-Christian families can't be strict, but I feel like my morals and values lean more towards the Muslim side. I don't mean this as far the religion goes, just the morals and values that go along with it however. If that makes any sense?
    You have to be more specific in order for us to know what you are referring to. What morals and what values? A true Christian is honest, peaceful, loving, kind. So I don't see where you can find flaw with the Christian morals unless you are mistaking apostate Christian morality with true Christian morality. So perhaps what you really should be doing is seeking a Christian denomination that truly adheres to the Christian morals as outlined in the Bible instead of casting Jesus' Ransom Sacrifice aside as if it were of no value.


    Quote:

    I feel like religion is just something that you are born into and I feel like people should get to chose their religion. I do have some family that is Muslim and I have talked to them about this and they support it because they think I am doing it for the right reasons.
    If you speak to a Christian member of your family he will tell you that you are making a grave mistake.

    Quote:

    My father however is a very strong Christian and I am afraid that he would be very angry with me and not talk to me. I'm scared of what my Christian side of the family and my Christian friends will think. Please give me as much advice as you have.
    Your religious decisions shouldn't be based on what others think about you.
  • Dec 19, 2006, 10:51 AM
    hadi88
    I apologize, if I misunderstood. Correct me if I am wrong, I don't know the religion of Islam much but I have learnt a bit about it by searching around and meeting with people.

    When you said
    Quote:

    It's a precept of the religion.
    , don't u think "its a precept of the culture" make more sense then the religion. As u said it is something taught in the culture, or uneducated background but not a religion,

    I didn't mean that exactly you said about beating the women's, misbehaving with them.


    Could u explain a bit more what you mean by "I don't dispute that not all Muslim men, especially westernized ones treat their wives that way. But if they don't, they are not following the teachings of Islam that closely. "

    Thanks
  • Dec 19, 2006, 11:05 AM
    ScottGem
    Its hard to separate the religion of Islam from the culture. I read the site you linked to that listed excerpts that seem to show Islam does hold women in high esteem. But I look at the culture in Islamic/Muslim countries where women are required to cover up completely, walk behind men in public, where they are usually not invited to participate in decisions that are held as the province of the male.

    If one does a WEB search on oppression of islamic women they will find several articles that deal with the issue on both sides.
  • Dec 19, 2006, 11:54 AM
    hadi88
    Though it is hard to separte religion and culture from each other, but in reality they are separate.
    "Culture is the shared knowledge and schemes created by a set of people for perceiving, interpreting, expressing, and responding to the social realities around them" (p. 9). By Lederach, J.P. (1995). Preparing for peace: Conflict transformation across cultures. Syracuse, NY: Syracuse University Press

    "Religion: Relation of human beings to God or the gods or to whatever they consider sacred or, in some cases, merely supernatural."
    —Britannica Concise Encyclopedia (online, 2006)

    We can not judge or give openios about religion by some culture.

    Let say Americans and asians or africans have the same religion chritianity, budism, islam or any other, but do they share the same culture, I don't think so. I have spent a bit of my life in a islamic country, where I would say there are about 10% or so of the people are christian, where as the major religion is Islam in the country, do those 10% peole share their religion because they are living in a country that has 90% muslims, no, do they share culture of course yeah.

    So culture and religion are different from each other.

    If one is searching around about a specific religion or culture, he/she need to make sure, who has written about the topic. If I am searching about a christianity, I would have to ask somebody who is christian, a muslim or a budist won't talk all positive about christianity or v.vrsa. We need to know whome we are asking to, from where we are getting the information.

    If in a culture women walk behind the men in public .etc, might ask somebody from that culture why, what is the reason behind it, why women have to cover up.


    Thanks for the info.
  • Dec 19, 2006, 12:37 PM
    ScottGem
    I realize that culture and religion are different, but with Islam, the lines are much more blurred then with other religions.
  • Dec 19, 2006, 01:30 PM
    hadi88
    Quote:

    but with Islam, the lines are much more blurred then with other religions.
    May I ask what lines?

    Please don't mind, I do know about chritianity a bit, but trying to learn about Islam a bit also.

    Thanks
  • Dec 19, 2006, 01:37 PM
    ScottGem
    In most other religions the practice of that religion doesn't govern one's daily lives to extent Islam does. In most Christian sects, the practice of the religion centers around going to church on Sundays. Yes Christians are exorted to lead a "christian" life, but that's mostly about being moral and ethical. In Judiasm, there are a few more rules, especially about eating and the way one dresses and certain daily rituals. But those are more observed by the orthodox and not as much my other sects.

    But in Islam the rules govern a much greater portion of daily life. What one eats and drinks. How one dresses. How they do so many things. I spoke earlier that Islamic people aren't allowed to borrow money. When the religion dictates so much of one's life, it blurs the lines between religion and culture.
  • Dec 21, 2006, 04:58 PM
    galveston
    Mahlia's concerns seem more about what her parents may think of her than any other issue. Most,(not all), religions have a good moral code, so it is probably safe to say that almost any religion will do to live by. Just put the major ones in a hat and draw one. Having said that, it is quite another thing to choose a faith to die by. Our hereafter is much longer and more important than our here and now. Put a lot of sincere prayer into your search.

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