I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask this but I just want to know
How do we consider a cult as a cult and a religion as a religion?
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I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask this but I just want to know
How do we consider a cult as a cult and a religion as a religion?
They're all cults, really.
Some of them just get more "respectable" and get called religions.
Generally speaking if they religion you are looking at does not preach/teach the bible and the whole bible as the true and only inspired word of God I would be very suspicious. To learn about a cult one only need look at the teachings/actions of people like David Coresh, Jim Jones and see what the effects of false teachings or the twisting of the Bible does and how to spot it.
Do you have a specific group you are asking about?
Here is a listing I found on the internet that is quite interesting. Maybe it will be some help to you.
They practice separatism and devote much of their time trying to proselyte others.
Their efforts to convert others are underhanded and manipulative.
The group's leaders claim to be God's prophets or messiahs or apostles who receive “divine revelations.”
They teach that all other churches and groups are lost unless they surrender what they have and join them.
Their leaders are dictatorial and demanding, either directly or subtly.
They claim to have the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
Members are expected to attend study sessions where they are firmly indoctrinated (“brainwashed”) with the group's mundane creeds and human theories.
They resent having their doctrines and creeds questioned.
They believe salvation and afterlife are found only in their camp.
Those who desert the group are judged evil and apostates.
They dictate almost every facet of the members' lives—sexual, social, domestic, political, and spiritual.
They deny that God has other children scattered over the hills and valleys of sectarianism.
They believe God's elect are found only within the borders of their own enclosure.
Honest dissidents are disciplined, avoided, and excommunicated.
They insist on strict conformity to the group's doctrinal standards.
Their teachings contradict plain truth.
Their source of authority is of human origin.
They require a new convert to be rebaptized, even though he was sincerely baptized previously.
They have devised their own translation of the scriptures and prohibit any translation not approved by them.
Members are expected to give large amounts of money and ample energy and time to the group's activities.
They allege to be the only legitimate interpreters of scripture.
They wrest scripture to foster their belief system.
It is a cult by virture of popular belief and social and moral values.
A cult does not have to be a religion by the terms we would think of it, it could be any social or economic or political group also that operates outside of society norms.
Many religions today were considered cults at the time they started.
Simply put: a cult isn't faith-based, religious sects are. A cult is any social group who gather based on similar interests like punk rockers, metal-heads, skinheads, The Crips, even the jocks in your high-school. Generally, high school jocks would be considered a clique just 'cause it's size is small, a cult is reserved for the larger sub-cultures in a society.
And faith-based meaning believing in something unknown.
All religious sects are cults, but not all cults are religious
Here are some definitions found on the net:
•followers of an exclusive system of religious beliefs and practices
•fad: an interest followed with exaggerated zeal; "he always follows the latest fads"; "it was all the rage that season"
•followers of an unorthodox, extremist, or false religion or sect who often live outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader
•a religion or sect that is generally considered to be unorthodox, extremist, or false; "it was a satanic cult"
MRS.S
I just can't pass this up---Quote:
Originally Posted by 450donn
So... the Christian church is a cult then, right, by the very definitions quoted here?
A cult
The leader wants you to trust him over God
Most claim to be self taught or fake education credentials
No independence -cult leaders totally overshadow other leaders within their organization and exhibit lack of trust to members. -
They usually have a commune where everybody lives and forbid you from friends and family
-most claim to be self taught or fake education credentials and their teachings are not backed up by any other beliefs or they are taken out of context to fit their own agenda.
Syenne I could not AGREE with you more:DQuote:
Originally Posted by Synnen
NO faith based religion believes in this:
Those who desert the group are judged evil and apostates.
Or this:
They dictate almost every facet of the members' lives—sexual, social, domestic, political, and spiritual.
Or this:
They practice separatism and devote much of their time trying to proselyte others.
Or:
Their source of authority is of human origin.
Or:
Members are expected to attend study sessions where they are firmly indoctrinated (“brainwashed”) with the group's mundane creeds and human theories.
So to Synnen and lighterrr I guess your anti faith comments are just that, anti faith, and have no basis at all!
Oh really? Since I left Christianity for a pagan faith, I've been spit on, called evil, been told I was going to hell, been threatened with disinheritance, and been told that I will suffer eternity in hell.Quote:
Originally Posted by 450donn
Tell me one single religion that doesn't have extreme influence on those aspects of their members' lives.Quote:
Originally Posted by 450donn
Sexual: birth control? Yup, there's an opinion. Sex before marriage? Yup, opinion there too. Divorce? Oh, you can be excommunicated for that!
Social: I'd say that being influenced by your church to try to convert OTHER people to join would have an impact on social lives. Plus--to be really "involved" in the church, much of your social life is taken up with other members of the church.
Domestic: How about having to raise your kids in the faith? How about some sects that refuse to allow members to celebrate any holiday except those that involve the church? Political: Two words: Gay Marriage.
Spiritual: This is the ONE area that I would hope any cult would have influence over. Since most cults are ABOUT spiritual well-being, I'd be surprised to find one that didn't have that influence.
Are you going to deny that you proselyte to others? Have you NEVER tried to convince someone to come to Jesus? Perhaps the separatism is not so prevalent, but I know of a few sects that DO practice it.Quote:
or this:
They practice separatism and devote much of their time trying to proselyte others.
You going to tell me that some GOD sat down and wrote the Bible? What about church leaders--are they demi-gods? If not, then how do they have any authority here on earth?Quote:
or:
Their source of authority is of human origin.
Sunday church. Wednesday church. Sermons. Bible studies. Sermons. Prayer groups.Quote:
or:
Members are expected to attend study sessions where they are firmly indoctrinated (“brainwashed”) with the group's mundane creeds and human theories.
Tell me that my points have no basis, and I'll call you an idiot.Quote:
So to Synnen and lighterrr I guess your anti faith comments are just that, anti faith, and have no basis at all!
MY point was that ALL religions are cults. Just that not all cults are religions. Call it what you like, but EVERY religion is a cult. It's just that members of some religons get touchy if you point that out.
You know all religions are cults. YES, I believe that but is that such a bad thing to be labelled as a cult. The media seems to put such a NEGATIVE spin on the word making it seem like a taboo. I to left the christian faith for SO MANY reasons and now I don't belong to ANY organised religion I just have a spiritual belief in the existence of God. My point is looking at christian or members of the church now I see them as being hopelessly and completely brainwashed. Hmmm that reminds me of jim jones he had his followers brainwashed also? Then we have what the media calls "muslim extremist" suicide bombers etc. Once again all these are members of a specific religion. The point I'm trying to make is there are similiairites in all of theses example. So you ask is religion a cult well in my opinion YES.
The Merriam-Webster online dictionary lists five different definitions of the word "cult."[16]
1. Formal religious veneration
2. A system of religious beliefs and ritual; also: its body of adherents;
3. A religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also: its body of adherents;
4. A system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator;
5. Great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book).
See religion was man made and it is SO FLAWED and that is why all of this problems wars etc are happening and will still happen, because religion is suppose to bring us closer to our creator instead it divides and sets us apart. But I don't blame some of the members on here that think their religious beliefs have no similarities to a cult. Their only victims of their beliefs that does not allow them to think outside of their very limited and marginalized box.
If people just believed in God and didn't have so many rules or church doctrines to follow, we would not be faced with many of the problems we have today. A christian would not look at a muslim thinking they are not going to heaven because they don't believe in jesus and don't accept him as their saviour. Why do they do this? Because every Sunday this Christian goes to church and is repeatedly told by their pastor " no one shall enter the gates of heaven without accepting the son of god" come on if that is not brainwashing I really don't know what is. I know what your saying but the scripture says, a scripture that was written by man, and is being upheld by the church. But like the saying goes ignorance is bliss.
Hit a sore spot did I?
Synnen wrote
"Tell me that my points have no basis, and I'll call you an idiot."
Name calling only degrades your points to the garbage can where the feeble minded and children go when they have no valid points to make.
Well I guess you're both going to the same place. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by 450donn
Some churches / sects which call themselves "Christian" might qualify under the definition of cults. But not churches which abide by the Bible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Synnen
I can't resist joining this thread.
There are more religions out there that DON'T follow the Bible.
Yes, ALL religions are cults, but why is there that stigma. Who is to say what beliefs are wrong. We are all individuals (at least I am) and (supposedly) have our own minds to think. What works for you just might not work for me and vice versa. I just might think that what you believe is down right evil, while you swear by it and think it's the greatest.
Open-mindedness is what it's going to take to break down these VERY TRIVIAL bickerings- I have yet to see the more"mainstream" religions open up to a possibility that they might be wrong.
I'm only human, so what I believe might not be the "truth", but it works for me and I don't have to live my life in fear that what I do is going to damn me for all eternity. Lmao!
I find it hilarious that the more prominent religions like to pick fights using tired, old, rehearsed words that aren't even theirs. Look for some originality and there you will find a free thinker. Lol
So true mugger:)Quote:
Originally Posted by mugger
I see so if you ABIDE by the bible then you are exempt from being called a cult? Look there is nothing wrong with the word cult people.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
I'd like a list of the religions that aren't cults, that's what I'd like. :)
Have a look at the definition given earlier. Those who do adhere to the Bible would not comply with the definition for a cult.Quote:
Originally Posted by lighterrr
Cult checklist - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
On the first look, if I see group of people in hood, praying with candles around in the dark, that's the one I'll consider cult. Any group that I think creepy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck
I was born into a religion called "Church of Christ" (Iglesia ni Kristo) founded in 1914. Their teaching is based on the bible but have stricter guidelines like and different interpretation from catholic church like::::: minister is allowed to marry, during worship, men's seat is separate from women, women must dress more conservative, Like Jesus is human and the God is his father, they don't have Christmas because Christ was born in summer, they don't have communion, last supper is once a year where everyone can have wine and host, the leader chooses who's politician to vote, later they do support artificial birth control.
Members are mocked due strict guidelines and "funny" beliefs, a cult. By the end of on the century, it became one of the most respected and most influential churches in the archipelago because members are highly disciplined.
See Jesus. He was executed because he preaches.
When I turned 15, I left them and no longer attend any church.
I see well here is what I think. Going to a church every Sunday to listen to the BIBLE being preached does not except you from belonging to a cult. ALL religion is a cult whether they follow the bible or not. (just my opinion)Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
The Merriam-Webster online dictionary lists five different definitions of the word "cult."[16]
1. Formal religious veneration
2. A system of religious beliefs and ritual; also: its body of adherents;
3. A religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also: its body of adherents;
4. A system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator;
5. Great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book).
Agreed. That is not what I said. I said that those who do adhere to the Bible would not comply with the definition for a cult.Quote:
Originally Posted by lighterrr
I'm still waiting for a list...
Something like you did to me in the posts that were deleted, when we originally argued about this?Quote:
Originally Posted by 450donn
I MADE my valid points. I don't see your valid rebuttals, though.
As long as they were following the BIBLE, but not an organized religion---I would agree with you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
The second they join a church, though--they've joined a cult.
Not if that church adheres to the Bible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Synnen
Tom, you have a right to your opinion, it's just that others, many others, disagree with you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
By the way, reddies are only allowed for factually incorrect information. Synnens post was opinion, therefore it doesn't warrant a reddie.
As do many many others disagree with you. That is what it is like in a free society, Alty.Quote:
Originally Posted by Altenweg
Exactly why I gave it. If you have an issue with it, the public board is not the place for complaints.Quote:
By the way, reddies are only allowed for factually incorrect information. Synnens post was opinion, therefore it doesn't warrant a reddie.
How does the Bible make one exempt from being a cult?
A cult is, simply, a group of people that follow the same belief in an organized manner.
Frankly, the very IDEA that Christians think they are exempt from the same status as EVERY OTHER RELIGION scares the heck out of me.
I realize that and accept that Tom.Quote:
As do many many others disagree with you. That is what it is like in a free society, Alty.
Freedom of religion is important. I just find it amusing that many religious people don't feel that freedom not to practice religion is acceptable. Funny how that works.
But, back to the topic. I think Synn has a very valid point. The bible does not exempt a group from being a cult. As soon as a group is organized it is by very definition a cult.
I am glad to hear that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Altenweg
I am strong proponent of freedom of religion. I have noted some on here who feel that those who disagree with them have no right to their views, but I for one firmly believe that everyone has a right their views.Quote:
Freedom of religion is important. I just find it amusing that many religious people don't feel that freedom not to practice religion is acceptable. Funny how that works.
[quote]But, back to the topic. I think Synn has a very valid point. The bible does not exempt a group from being a cult. [quote]
I already stated my agreement. Many cults mis-use the Bib;e.
That does not make any sense. If a group of 20 people meet to study the Bible - that is okay, but you declare them a cult if they formally organize. It makes no sense. Nothing changes in between.Quote:
As soon as a group is organized it is by very definition a cult.
Tom, I'm not using the word cult in a negative way. I'm not saying that organized religious groups are all negative, although I have to say there are many out there that are.
A group of 20 people meeting to study the bible don't fit into the definition of a cult, but a group of 200 people meeting to learn of the bible in a organized manner such as church are considered a cult. Not a "burn all the witches" cult, but a cult nonetheless.
I think you're taking the word cult to mean something negative (which again, it can) but that's not the way I'm using it here.
There are positive definitions of the word, it's just that most people hear it and feel negatively towards it.
Honestly, I'm not arguing with you, not this time. ;)
Negative or positive - it does not matter. Your claim is wrong. It does not align to the definition.Quote:
Originally Posted by Altenweg
You seem to be forming your own definition. So it is no longer just that they are organized, but it is now numbers. So we know that your definition does not have 20 as a cult, but 200 is. So tell us, is 30 a cult? 40? 80? 150? What, according to your definition is the number at which an organized group becomes a cult? What is your basis for this claim?Quote:
A group of 20 people meeting to study the bible don't fit into the definition of a cult, but a group of 200 people meeting to learn of the bible in a organized manner such as church are considered a cult.
You seem to be forming your own definition.Okay, obviously my post wasn't really clear. For that I apologize.Quote:
So it is no longer just that they are organized, but it is now numbers. So we know that your definition does not have 30 as a cult, but 200 is. So tell us, is 30 a cult? 40? 80? 150? What, according to your definition is the number at which an organized group becomes a cult? What is your basis for this claim?
No, it's not the numbers. Your example was 20 people meeting to study the bible together.
You're right, it's not about numbers. If those same 20 people became an organized group where the bible was taught to them instead of them studying the bible independently then yes, they would be a cult, again, in my opinion and not in a negative way.
I only said 200 because it's very rare to see a church group or other organized group that consists of merely 20 people. Once again, sorry for the confusion.
It has NOTHING to do with numbers--with the exception of the numbers 1 and 0. It takes at least 2 people to be a cult.
A cult is NOT a negative thing. It is a DEFINITION of a group of people that believe the same thing.
How can you twist that definition to say that Christianity is NOT a group of people that believe the same dogma?
According to the defination of a cult that I found and gave in my post number 3 there is no where that a number of people is or is not defined as a cult. I think everybody should go back and read the list. Christianity does NOT align with the list. However the Mormon, the JW do fit the bill perfectly. So again I don't see why you are spending such a large amount of time trying to persuade people that Christian churches, that is any church that teaches the whole and complete word of God as found in the Bible is or can be a cult? So lets be honest and tell us why you feel it is necessary to convince people that not going to church is the only true and correct way to seek God?
"Adhere" in this sentence means what, exactly?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
I said 20 people meeting who subsequently become formally organized.Quote:
Originally Posted by Altenweg
That is what I said last time. But now you add a new twist. Now you are saying that the key factors are:Quote:
You're right, it's not about numbers. If those same 20 people became an organized group where the bible was taught to them instead of them studying the bible independently then yes, they would be a cult, again, in my opinion and not in a negative way.
- That they are organized
- That the Bible is taught to them.
So by that definition, you consider all schools to be cults - right?
Where are you getting your definition from?
Abide by the essential teachings of the Bible.Quote:
Originally Posted by ordinaryguy
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