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This has been touched on in a few threads from time to time. I am interested to hear some different point of views on this.
If we were to discover intelligent Life on another planet, how would that effect religious beliefs? Does it help to prove or disprove certain religions?
It would be irrelevant in my opinion. I for one have no reason to think that we are alone in the Universe.
But they could not be Christians, right? How would it not have any effect on the religion?
I have to agree with Rick on this.
But how do we know they are not Christian? Maybe they have a far superior belief system than we do. We just don't know.
I believe this: If there is other life in the universe, then they are just like us in their "instinctual" knowledge of God. They may or may not know the name "Jesus", but Christ will have revealed Himself to them in some way.
Well, if God sent His ONLY begotten Son to us and He was crucified here on Earth, then how could He be revealed to another planet? So they are either not sinners or they are unforgiven for their sins. But either way, they cannot be Christians... how would they know of Christ? Isn't the fundamental belief that makes one a Christian is the belief that Christ has died to forgive me for my sins?
God can do anything he wants. On one end of the spectrum, I'd ask why could He not choose to be made flesh on multiple planets - and be crucified on each?
He can reveal Himself to his created beings any way he wishes, can't he? Maybe other created beings know him and his plan for them in a different way.
Of course all of this is completely speculative - and only musings. We here on Earth can only know him in the way that we see that he has revealed himself here.
PS.
ONLY does not mean "only on this planet".
I believe that it would make religious beliefs stronger. There are some Christians out there that deny any existence of other life forms because we are the special ones that God has created. Ha Ha Ha. They do not believe that life could exist outside our planet, at the same time believe in God. How can that be? Anyway, I think that God is the one who created life and started life and to find other life forms else where would actually prove to a lot of people that it is not just by CHANCH that we are here. Oh yes, and another thought there are many people who put limits on what God can do. I do not understand why? Why put limits on God when God is greater then everything. God I do believe can appear anywhere on any planet with any body, spiritual and physical. So why are we the only ones to receives Christ spirit. That is a hard one for me to swallow. Ka Ka Ch, sorry just choking, joking!
Joe
So then Christianity allows the belief that a Man can be killed on this Earth and be born again into another Life... whether it be on this Earth or on another? Doesn't the Bible say that Man is to die once and only once?
I know that God can do anything (almost) but we are all subjected to rules and laws... of course the breaking of those are miracles and that can happen, too. But based on what we know, how could Intelligent Life be possible in the religious aspect?
Who is to say that the true definition of one life. Imagine time is endless or with God there is no time. What if we are always transforming to a new life, not necessarily here on earth but on other planets, other dimensions, other times? There are endless possibilities. What you need to remember is that in the bible many times it has said there are many many mysteries with God.
We are limited to what we can see, feel and experience in this physical existence.
I cannot help but agree with both you rickj and Jesushelper...
However, there was a quote from the Bible that was posted here about Man can only die once... or he is meant to only live one Life. If that is true, then it would negate the possibility of Christians on other planets.
However, if the Bible does allow the possibility of living more than one Life... well, that just opens up all kinds of new threads :D
With all due respect but this is the same type of post you told me belongs in the general discussion section. You closed mine because according to you it was. You participated in my post before saying it didn't belong here just as you are participating in this one. What is the difference between this oine and mine besides the heckling and jeckling you paid attention to in mine but which is absent here?Quote:
Originally Posted by rickj
How do you know that aliens haven't already been here and passed on to us the true saviour, "F.S.M."??
What's FSM?
I think if there was intelligent life out there that that would be great(as long as they're friendly) But I don't think there is because for one thing it wasn't mentioned in the Bible. There's nothing I recall saying something like "created the heavens and earth AND brothers in the heavenlies!"
I think that would be an important omission. I think God gave us the intelligence and the imagination to stir up subjects like "aliens". But on the realistic side I see how scientifically it may be impossible to actually have "human" counterparts. They would have to be more like machines than humans. And they wouldn't know Jesus probably. So we would have to make many new disciples!
Let me ask you a question then pumpkin. Why would God make the HEAVEN(S) and the earth. If there were no other plans. Does not add up to me. Heavens that means there are billions and billions of stars, planets, solar systems and universes, it seems endless. How can you limit Gods creation to one planet?
Joe
What do you mean,"if there was no plan?" Just the scientific idea of space & galaxies is wonderous as it is. Something of God's artwork.
The Bible mentions in Genesis about what God put on earth. He also put the man He had formed in a garden- in the east. I don't see any reference to more than one earth. So I don't grasp humans being these other intelligent life sources.
What do they breathe? Methane? Hey, that can be cancerous!
But neither were computers, rocket ships, the atom bomb, serial killers and tons of other things - that doesn't mean they don't exist.Quote:
Originally Posted by 31pumpkin
Oh and FSM is this.
Other points to consider:
Perhaps the occupants of Earth were a special case that god needed to send someone to "save", a SWAT Team of One, so to speak, since we all became soiled ,in his mind, all because Adam and Eve ate the apple from the apple tree he demanded to leave alone.
Had they only had left the damn apple alone, imagine where could we be now?
The human race then was doomed to be riddled with fear, shame, lust, lies, cheating, theft, and all those other attributes that he deemed necessary to punish the heirs to Adam and Eve.
All accepted as normal human behavior today.
Women were singled out, for some sick, demented reason, to be burdened with the menstrual period, that we accept nowadays as a normal human biological function.
And men were doomed to live with those females that experience this monthly event.
Being a male, but attempting to be objective, I am not sure which condition is worse.
So we have those two vandals in the Garden Of Eden to muck it all up for the rest of us, supposedly. And since we were doomed to not be trusted by the creator, why would he admit to other worlds in the universe that he allegedly created?
Since he created the first man and woman, and almost immediately he discovered that they were faulty, perhaps he was a bit more careful with creating beings, and they are blessed with a more glorious world.
In that world, they followed all the rules, did not need to be saved, and now have the ability of zipping across light years of space to come visit us, secretively, to view us in our pitiful world of all the normal human behaviors and actions. They have Star Cruisers and we have billion dollar rockets that barely escape gravity, and the internal combustion engine.
They certainly do not have the bible to worry about, since this book was written by man here on Earth. We are the ones that got the shaft by the first two humans and need to make amends by swearing to god, no pun intended, that we believe in god, until the end of time, so we can get our ticket to paradise validated by god, who, mischievously dangles the promise of paradise of heaven forever, in front of us like a carrot.
So, it sure would be interesting to see the results to all religions with proof of other beings existing out in the universe. Would that mean the people we think are wackos with the aluminum hats that only believe in aliens are the only ones that are correct in their beliefs?
Hmmmmm.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm, Very interesting thoughts.
KARMA -
Saying that a lot of things weren't mentioned in the Bible is not a good argument IMO. All the things you mention are man made. God made man an intelligent being, above the plants & animals. Serial killers too, all result from free will & a personal life probably void of any faith or spiritual foundation(thus the spiritual void is filled by the "world")
Also, this FSM you think is maybe funny, but teenagers & young adults till in their 30's may not have any spiritual foundation either, from their upbringing. They too attempt to fill the void with the lies of Satan & start on a road rebellious to God. I thought we were concerned about these young folks- like what happened in the High School shootings. I rather see them walk around with a big Star of David, if that's the case. At least their peaceful.
tkrussell -
The original sin. True man must die because of it. But the Good News is that God suspended his wrath, and sent His Son, Jesus, to intercede for us. It is written in the Bible how believers are saved & not punished. We are saved from SHAME, LIES, LUST, FEAR, CHEATING, and THEFT. Not that we won't have a burglary- but even that- peace about its resolution.
I have found many things to be thankful for. The rest I try to pray for.
I admit their could be other life out there. Unless they can cure our diseases & stop our wars... I can wait to hear any evidence of such beings!
The Bible was writeen for our salvation... aliens or other intelligent life has nothing to do with our salavation so why would God bother ever telling us about them? Why would it ever be written in the Bible?
And yes, Man is wicked... we were created that. However, the evolution of Man in that sense is inevitable... Sin is inevitable. God created us as such that we would HAVE to have Faith in order to know Him. To create another being that would not follow the same path into Sin as we did, would be to create something that either has no free will or has enough intelligence and proof of God's existence to never sin.
Mankind's purpose and future are clearly explained in the Bible for those willing to pay attention and take the Bible seriously. Sure, the possibilities are endless, Jesushelper only if you completely disregard what Jesus himself tells you God's plan for humans and the earth is. You would also need to disregard the rest of the scriptures to make those possibilities in reference to mankind endless. So to those who take Jesus and the scriptures which Jesus tells us he holds sacred there are no "What ifs?"Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesushelper76
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJizzle
First, God didn't create mankind wicked. That developed later via misuse of free will. If he had then he would not have said that his creation was good and we wouldn't be told that his activity is perfect. Second, you are mixing the unbiblical concept of evolution with the Bible and they have NOTHING in common. Evolution clearly contradicts the Genesis account. So you either choose one or reject the other as drivel.
The creature you mention which supposedly would be incapable of choosing sin is more akin to a robot than a human. Also your premise that man sinned because he had insufficient proof of God;s existence is unbiblical since again we are clearly told that the voice of God was in the garden and than man and God communicated.
BTW
This is only to clear up what is really biblically based and what is only unbilical conjecture.
I do agree with your statement about God not telling us about intelligent extraterrestrial material life though there might not really be any at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tkrussell
You tend to mention some things that are semi-relevant to the subject but most is just one continuous attack on an inept, ridiculous, demented mischievous, sadistic, isea of a being which you claim to be the deity. Because most of your post is dedicated to this
verbal anti-God barrage, I found that the only thiing to respond to in your post is the anti-God barrage. Make sense?
In any case, I am deeply saddened and worried to see that you have a weird concept of God based on your total lack of understanding of what the Bible basically really is telling you and a blind acceptance of whatever inane explanation you might happen to hear perhaps at the local bar or some other Godforsaken place. Of course I will not attempt to disabuse you of your ideas since that is viewed as proselytizing and would be unceremoniously classified as being off topic or an attempt at chatting. However, and of course naturally, your diatribe against God will be considered very interesting, and definitely not off-topic so on that count you are OK. For whatever that OK is worth.
BTW
It is a good idea to check each premise before basing a conclusion on it.
Good question! Let's see?Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJizzle
Of course if a religion claims man to be God's only intelligent creation it would disprove that particular religion. Is there really a religion out there claiming this?
In any event, evolutionary atheists would see evidence for their atheism since Godless evolution is their only acceptable explanation. Some Christians, especially those deficient in reasoning ability, might be convinced by their argument and become evolutionary atheists as well.
On the other hand, some God-believing people might see evidence of a creator's hand and have their faith strengthened. Other religious people might simply see God as using evolution to create other creatures because that's what they learn in school happens and they don't want to trust their sacred writings and prefer to trust what the evolutionists say so or at the least compromise via merging here and their as suits their fancy.
Easily.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesushelper76
Perhaps to God this universe only comprises just one minuscle part, perhaps a billionth of his creation and is therefor in his view, not a waste of matter at all as we humans might conclude. Perhaps it pleases him visually and that is sufficient reason for him to have created it. How about that?
I agree that Man wasn't created wicked... I should have worded that better. Man was created with the ability and capacity to be wicked. Had Adam not eaten that apple, would Sin have NEVER reared its head? Would Satan have NEVER gotten to another human being for all of time? If Satan could turn Gods own Angels against Him, how would Man have ever stood a chance? Im just saying that it is inevitable and for a race to exist without Sin, it is unlikely that they would have the range of free will that Man does. If it is possible at all, they would have to have extremely advanced intelligence AND proof enough of Gods existence to know better than to EVER sin at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Starman
Im not clear as to what you are saying about evolution... how am I mixing that up with the Bible?
Sufficient proof AND extreme intelligence. We had proof in the beginning of God's existence, we just lacked the intelligence (and we still do). Maybe strength is another attribute that this race must have. Sure we have strength, but each and everyone of us know that we lack the strength to NEVER sin again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Starman
Adam & Eve had experienced the first" consequences" of sin. In this respect there were no 2nd tries. They were supposed to obey. That's the way God had it in His plan. One can't really say "what if they never ate that apple?"
And when "we" are born-again , we are now more convicted not to sin. However, if we do, and are quick to repentance, He's promised to forgive us.
Anyway - Sorry off track again? Back to intelligent aliens bearing hugs... :)
Personally, I don't think we will find intelligent life elsewhere in the universe, except in heaven. God's focus is on earth, redeeming mankind, and enlarging His heavenly family. Jesus, God's only son, was the infinite God-man, who died for the sins of this world.
Those two words at the end of your input. THIS WORLD. That means this world. What about all the other worlds?
I really don't care about other worlds or what bible you read or what planet you beamed in from, my relationship with the God that I understand is a personal one and not subject to scriptural or cultural interpretation. Whether the bible was written by man, or god is irrelevant to me, and that goes for ALL the bibles out there.
To believe we are the only life forms in the universe seems small minded. Why would God pick only one planet with a never ending universe? God is all, we are unique to our planet as others would be to theirs. I believe when the Bible was written there was so much information in it that has been removed as it has been rewritten. Information we could have had to heal ourselves, and further evolve spiratually. Religion was political and the higher political figures always want to know more than the average person, as it gives them more power. Something I believe, but won't know for a fact until I meet God himself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cassie
The angels are extraterrestrial. If there are so many intelligent creatures on other planets who have been here long before the dinosaurs how come SETI only hears silence? Rather strange don't you think?
BTW
As I can see you reject the Bible. That's OK. Freedom of choice. However, claims that some weird non-biblical idea is Bible based, that's a different story. There are persons who never have even read the Bible or who have only given it a cursory reading who claim autoritatively that their ideas are Bible-based. When someone who is familiar with the book points it out, they become wroth and claim tghat he is vehemently trying to convert them or that he are leading thread is going off topic.
Just because somebody points out that there have been lots of books taken out of the bible and some put in to advance certain beliefs and powers of the church, is a fact. Does not mean that the bible is not a blueprint for our lives. I for one have read bible front and back many times and I do believe that God himself has written his spirit in each of our hearts and it is up to listen to it or not.
Peace and love.
Joe
I was merely responding to your statement that the Bible is no longer able to provide optimum guidance because according to you it has been tampered with to the degree of rendering it deficient. I prefer to believe God protected his Word to the degree of preventing such an outcome.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesushelper76
2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
Very good questions! If indeed they are sinners then they are in need of redemption. Jesus assumed the human form in order to die for our sins. Then isn't it logical that another righteous spirit creature could assume their physical form in order to die for theirs?Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJizzle
The earth is the prison in which all of the fallen angels have been sent to either redeem themselves or finally parish for eternity. There is no other place quite like it in the all of creation. There are many levels or higher vibrational realities but they are finer and lighter than the earth reality. So the Universe is full of life and other beings. In our present state, we can only observe less than 5% of all reality around us. The critters that say they are from another planet are really the evil spirits born from The "Watchers" and the earth women. They can dwell in our vibration or in a higher vibration so they are unseen in our 5% of reality. That's in the bible.
Some people fear Satan more than they love GOD but I am scared to death of the FSM!:eek:
Totally logical! And this is where the dilema lies...Quote:
Originally Posted by Starman
1) It is another righteous spirit... another Son of God?
2) (just thought of this one... ) maybe a DAUGHTER of God??
3) The original Son of God (Jesus) born again unto another world.
The main question in each of these is that the single most important factor of being a Christian is the belief that "Jesus died for our sins."
So would these other beings be considered Christians? If not, would Christians on Earth be led to attempt to convert them? If not, would Christians on Earth be able to live harmoniously with another "religion"?
Hmmm... if the 3rd case were true... and Jesus was reborn unto another world, would that make His ultimate sacrifice here on Earth less meaningful? Say there are 100s of worlds that He has had to be bron into in order to sacrifice Himself for their sins? It would seem to make the sacrafice(s) seem like not so much of a sacrifice.
(quick note... I have to admit, I am almost a little uncomfortable even writing that last little paragraph lol)
Starman,
You are putting words in my mouth. I never said that the bible is not relevant. I am merely pointing out over the years. The higher church members are the ones that decided what books were put into the bible, and what were taking out. THIS IS A FACT. You telling somebody that they are rejecting the bible. Is unfair because just because there are concerns on whether we have the whole bible or not, or that over the years and several translations later that the meaning has changed.
Joe
Jiz- Sometimes you are scary, because this could actually happen on some unknown world. Or maybe on another planet the race that lives there is smarter than us here so HE wouldn't have to sacrifice HIMSELF!?Quote:
1) It is another righteous spirit... another Son of God?
2) (just thought of this one... ) maybe a DAUGHTER of God??
3) The original Son of God (Jesus) born again unto another world
Its funny... now that I am thinking about it.. they could be smarter (more intelligent and more in touch with their spirituality) and therefore, not sin... not needing salvation or maybe they are actuallyless intelligent, more simple, and therefore, not sin due to such a simplistic view of things. Almost like cat or a dog...Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Either way I suppose, without the need for salvation, would they know Jesus? Would it matter? Could Christians co-exist with another religion that is equally right?
I'm not sure how many Christains would consider any other religion as "equally right."Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJizzle
Even if an alien race professed faith in the same God, they wouldn't have the Bible. How could you define the Christian God, and whether someone worships him, outside the confines of the Bible?
Drjizzle
Good question... :cool: :confused: :eek:Quote:
Either way I suppose, without the need for salvation, would they know Jesus? Would it matter? Could Christians co-exist with another religion that is equally right?
."
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJizzle
First, thank you for the excellent questions!
The requirement for someone dying for our sins was that he be blameless and don the human form. There are millions of blameless sons of God in heave. Any one of these could assume the necessary form and die for sins.Quote:
Totally logical! And this is where the dilema lies...
1) It is another righteous spirit... another Son of God?
2) (just thought of this one... ) maybe a DAUGHTER of God??
3) The original Son of God (Jesus) born again unto another world
I know that women's liberation has given rise to many ideas but unfortunately the angels are referred to as sons. They also behaved like men since their attraction was toward the female of the human species. God himself is described as being male. So based on this we can't claim a biblical basis for God having created female angels.
No, we are told conclusively that Jesus died once and for all times and that he would never experience death again. So based on this that scenario isn't possible.
Christians on earth would not need to convert those sinful aliens to Christianity unless those sinful aliens also were human. Then it would be relevant. But if not human, then their conversion is meaningless since the benefit of the sacrifice is for those who bear the likeness of Adam. Or even more specifically, his descendants.
Christians need not be offended or take umbrage with any religion that God approves. It's the ones he disapproves of that are to be viewed as evil.
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