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I was just wondering why those of you with religions chose to believe in it. That is other then it being what your family has done. Just wondering because I myself am not religious at all, so I'm not trying to bash on anyone and I also don't want to be converted.
Thanks, Eric
I chose my religion after many years of soul searching and realization. It is a different religion then anyone else in my family and they did not readily embrase my decision. I chose it because I feel I have deep ties within nature and I do not believe in just one set god or thing. I believe that everything that goes around comes around and that nature and symbolysim are within everything
Hmmm, why did you only get one answer on this question? Is it because no one has a justifiable answer?
Anyway, on with the question at hand...
I use to be religious. It was because my mom would make me go to church with her. She didn't want to go alone. I hated it, I was so bored and could never understand anything that they preached or could never believe how starving yourself or giving the church all your money (especially when we could barely afford to eat!) would help anything out. And when told that you have to go to church or god won't accept you, that was it. I was tired of the games and the stories. I would even ask questions that could never get an answer.
Fast forward about 5 years. I have 2 little girls and a fiancé. I decide to try church again. It's still the same crazy stuff but the kids love it so I try. The fiancé won't have anything to do with it since he's atheist, maybe that's what made me stay, I was worried for us. So I try to get him involved. He finally budges but his questioning was opening up my eyes again. I was thinking, "this stuff makes no sense at all!" If I don't go to church, I'll be damned. If I don't give the church my money... I'll be damned. If I don't starve myself... I'll be damned! Needless to say, somewhere along the way, I started losing faith again.
Then came the time that we wanted to get married. (a few years later) NO CHURCH would accept us unless we became members. Who's right is it to tell us that we can't get married because we don't go to church?? We got married by a JP.
Fast forward now, 8 years later... I'm fine, my life is fine, bills are paid, I'm happy, Life's great! And I haven't accepted him into my life since. Am I going to hell? I don't know... I don't believe in a heaven so therefore, I don't believe in a hell. I will die someday, what happens after... I don't know. But for right now, life is perfect.
I have no more questions. I've already made up my mind. Firm believers don't understand so don't try to. I don't dislike you for believing, only thing is, I can't exactly understand why, but anyway... Don't dislike me for not believing. Religion is a very sticky subject. I try to just stay away from it but it's everywhere, it's brought into everything and every subject. Sure yeah, you believe but what exactly do you believe in? There's a difference between having faith and actually believing everything the book says. It's just a story to me. I don't care if you tell me that you have faith and that's what makes you feel better but when you say that you believe everything in the book in all it's entirety, I'll laugh in your face. Think about half of the things it says, that is exactly why I don't believe, nothing makes any sense to me. The man made from dirt, woman made from a rib, the snake, the apple, the bush, the parting of the sea, the great flood... It really is a great story though, don't get me wrong. I just don't believe it. I'm a rational thinker and I've outgrown fairy tales. I'm sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings.
Have a nice day :)
P.S. I know plenty of people who are religious and they know exactly how I feel and they can understand why I feel the way I do. Even they sometimes question things, doesn't mean they lose faith, they just don't believe everything they've read or heard either. I accept their faith, they accept my lack of faith. So, don't anyone judge me. Have an open mind.
I'm sort of with you. I do not believe in organized religion. In my opinion, all organized religions are just a device to get people to behave a certain way. I believe myself to be a moral, ethical and generous person. Therefore I do not need the crutch of organized religion to make me act as a good person.
Exactly, I don't need anyone or any book telling me how I need to live. I live with respect and decency, I do what I should and need to. I don't do anything illegal. The only thing that I really do that's bad for my body is smoke and drink on occasion. But nobody's going to tell me that I'll go to hell for it cause as far as I'm concerned, there is no hell.
Me personally as a christian won't ask why you don't have faith, your attitude says it all !
I'm feeling feisty this morning, so I'll risk opening this can of worms. I'm not sure whether your post was directed at me or Self or both, but its very unclear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marily
You say we don't have faith, faith in what? You refer to an attitude, what attitude is that? Both Self and I stated that we live our live by being respectful and decent. Essentially adhering to what's usually referred to as the Judeo-Christian ethic. So what are we missing?
You're saying that I have an attitude? I was only plainly stating why I don't need to live by any code, that my life is just fine the way it is, without religion or any book about your god. Just because I don't say what you think I should does not mean I have an attitude nor does it make me a bad person! Now I have an attitude because people like you, who are taught not to judge, do so without even considering my reason for non belief!Quote:
Originally Posted by Marily
I am a nice, kind hearted, respectful, decent, trustworthy, lovable, NON JUDGING, helpful, one of a kind human being and I don't need no d*mn book or stupid scriptures to tell me how I should live! You think how you want and you live how you think you should, I don't tell you that you're wrong. Do I think that you're living in a fantasy world? YES, and that's my very own opinion but I also say Whatever Makes You Happy! How's that attitude for you??
And Thank you ScottGem. I do have faith, faith in my kids, that they will grow to be strong, smart individuals and always do what's right and that every day will be a great one. Do I have faith in scripture or the book or in jesus? No, and I have my own reasons not to, it's my own opinion. Marily has it all wrong to think that she can judge the way she does. How christian like is that? I live for me and my family and I've been doing pretty darn good too.
Actually it was meant for selfinflicted hell
And you also left this in my reputation...
Actually, it has nothing to do with the HELL you're thinking of, it has to do with the fact that I always made the wrong decisions when it came to men, I always went for the rebellious bad ones and ended up hurting myself. I knew better but there's always something about them bad boys that makes a girls toes curl. But since 2005, the latest bad boy has proved to me that their not all the same... Should I change my name to make you happy? Maybe something a little nicer like sugar puff or candy girl... Is that more to your liking?Quote:
Originally Posted by Marily
Go judge someone else.
Oh and you know what Marily? I think that you're out looking for the bad in everyone, more reason for you to judge and to make yourself feel like a better person. Cause since were bad souls you're the righteous one, right?
"Say what you need to save your soul
But leave your religion at the door"
I agree with Self inflicted and Scott Gem. I was raised christian, baptised christian, went to catholic school, married in the catholic church, celebrated my sacraments, and was overall taught to fear the teachings in the bible, and I went along with this until I got to college. But I was unhappy, and then I started using my mind and some things just did not make sense to me. I started researching, and studying the history of my religion, which in turn led me to research and learn about other religions. I learned that one underlying factor in all religions is that God, Allah, the divine, whatever you want to call it is all-loving. I discovered that I can live my life under the basic moral principles, love, don't kill, be respectful, etc. and I took that and made it my own. This is what I live by. I keep myself open and I learn what I can. I experience everything in this life. I don't let a book that was written hundreds of years ago rule my life. I am raising my family the same way. Religion is faith, and no one can dictate what that faith may be for another person. It is meant to be interpreted personally. I will not push my beliefs on anyone and don't expect to be pushed in return. In my opinion. If you want to follow those beliefs, do so, if it makes you happy and is what you think is right. No one can say for sure what is truth or fiction. Have faith in what you feel is strong, and that, in my opinion, is the power of god. Judging others is wrong in any way you put it.
AND WHO ARE YOU TO JUDGE ME... Hypocrite!Quote:
Originally Posted by Marily
Ya know what? This is getting out of hand, I don't have time to sit here and argue with a girl who believes she is at any higher power or any better than I am all because I don't believe in her fables. Thank you to those who stood up for me and respected my beliefs. :)
Have a good day :D
Doesn't really matter. What I noticed is that you dodged my questions. If you can't back up what you say, then don't say it!Quote:
Originally Posted by Marily
You smoke? Ygggh! You want to tell people just what's on your mind but when others don't respond to your liking, you get a stroke, I'm not judging you or anyone else, unbelievers is not suppose to have faith in God because that's their nature, what will come in handy is a guard in front of your mouth ;)
There is a difference between posting your opposite opinion of someone and posting judgemental comments towards them. Even in your post about not judging, you were judging.
You can not say that ayone is an unbeliever. No one can say that about anyone. Everyone has their faith, and they believe in it, we are all believers, but believe in different things. People need to respect that. The only person I need judging me is my God, and he at least will be fair.
I see you are still dodging my questions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marily
As akalineangel points out, you claim to no be judging at the same time that you brand people "unbelievers". Unbelievers in what, in the way YOU choose to believe? But just as you have the right to believe what you want, so do we. We should not be subject to your obvious disdain because we don't believe as you do.
Marily, Marily, your life is but a dream...
Yeah, I smoke, what's it to you? I read in another post of yours, you only wear full length dresses, no make up and you don't do your hair... Well woman, that's "yggh!" to me! If I passed you on the street, I would probably notice your dreary disposition but I would not second glance or judge you. YOU on the other hand would probably show extreme disgust in my appearance and throw your nose up in the air! For you, Miss Marily, are better than me and the rest for you are a follower of christ and will someday reign in his kingdom! Well, sweety, good for you. I'm just fine knowing that someday I will die, be buried and my body will eventually decompose into worm bait. :D
No, you can oppose me on ANY subject OTHER than religion! I think it's just a big humongous fairy tale and those who believe in everything they read still have the minds of a 5 year old and haven't grown up and faced reality yet... Just my opinion, don't go crying over it.Quote:
You want to tell people just what's on your mind but when others don't respond to your liking...
EXACTLY! You said something I agree on!Quote:
unbelievers is not suppose to have faith in God because that's their nature
Now Marily, that's not very nice. Are you saying that just because I don't believe in your hogwash that I should not speak at all? Who are you to try and stop me? One of gods disciples? Does that make you more powerful than ME? I think not dear Marily!Quote:
what will come in handy is a guard in front of your mouth
And what if this place actually had an Atheist/Humanist board... Would you drive yourself insane trying to make people see your light? That would be fun to watch :)
Did you know that Einstein was Atheist?
"If god doesn't like the way I live, Let him tell me, not you."
"I am treated as evil by those who feel persecuted because they are not allowed to force me to believe as they do."... author unknown
"Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day; give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish."... Author Unknown
"When a man ceases to believe in god, he does not believe in nothing. He believes in everything."... G.K. Chesterson
This is a good one!
"Gods are fragile things; they may be killed by a whiff of science or a dose of common sense."... Chapman Cohen
"I do not believe in god because I do not believe in Mother Goose."... Clarence Darrow
"Not only is there nothing to be gained by believing an untruth, but there is everything to lose when we sacrifice the indispensable tool of reason on the altar of superstition."
... Freedom From Religion Foundation
"The beauty of religious mania is that it has the power to explain everything. Once God (or Satan) is accepted as the first cause of everything which happens in the mortal world, nothing is left to chance...logic can be happily tossed out the window."
... Stephen King
"I respect faith, but doubt is what gets you an education."... Wilson Mizner
"One would like to believe that people who think of themselves as devout Christians would also behave in a manner that is in according with Christian ethics. But pastorally and existentially, I know that this is not the case, and never has been."
... John Neuhaus, in San Jose Mercury News
Faith: not wanting to know what is true... Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche
"What I don't like about bible thumpers, or any cult for that matter, is the arrogance exhibited with impunity by them as they perform their socially accepted public displays of schizophrenic indulgence with the goal of influencing weak-minded individuals, mostly young impressionable children, to join in activities that brainwash them into thinking a certain way so as to restrict their ability to freely reason, to police their own thoughts and become willing slaves, to not take responsibility for their own actions, and to be unquestioningly subservient to the will of a silent invisible entity whose thoughts and wishes are supposedly passed down through the overly exaggerated, un-provable, inconsistent, babblings of an old book that can only be deciphered correctly by someone who claims to be in direct contact with this entity, and who is undoubtedly either the most schizophrenic, or the most deviant member of the group. I see religion, all religion, as evil, and its minions as zombies."... Steve Pinkston
"We must question the story logic of having an all-knowing, all-powerful God, who creates faulty humans, and then blames them for his own mistakes."
... Gene Roddenberry
"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."
... Carl Sagan
"I would love to believe that when I die I will live again, that some thinking, feeling, remembering part of me will continue. But as much as I want to believe that, and despite the ancient and worldwide cultural traditions that assert an afterlife, I know of nothing to suggest that it is more than wishful thinking."
... Carl Sagan
"The world is so exquisite, with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there's little good evidence. Far better, it seems to me, in our vulnerability, is to look Death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides."
... Carl Sagan
"This above all: to thine own self be true."
... William Shakespeare
************************************************** *********************
Would you consider any of these pure common sense? Maybe with the exception of 4 and the end of 11...
1. Do not give opinion or advice unless you are asked.
2. Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.
3. When in another's lair, show him respect or else do not go there.
4. If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy.
5. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.
6. Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a burden to the other person and he cries out to be relieved.
7. Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.
8. Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.
9. Do not harm little children.
10. Do not kill non-human animals unless attacked or for your food.
11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.
After I get a response from these, I'll let you in on the place where I found them ;)
I love the Gene Roddenberry quote... I am familiar with those commandments as well, self inflicted
I like the Steve Pinkston one. Very dramatic, and probably one of the longest sentences I've ever read! :eek:
Welp, I got the first response to the 11 Satanic Rules of The Earth. After knowing this, it's horrible and I should be thrown immediately from the message boards?
Eric,
I would like to add a few things here.
I think there is a major difference between being religious and being spiritual. Am I religious, no. Do I personally believe I am spiritual, yes.
I was brought up in a roman catholic faith. I was brought up in the church and now in my later life there are things that I do not agree with 100 percent but I have always believe in God, and Jesus since I was a very young boy. I have always had that truth within me. Nothing was forced and it was not chosen for me. I just always had a strong need to feel close to God. I think it also had to do with growing up without a biological father which made my strong role model God, and Jesus. If this makes any sense to you?
Joe
I was born into a muslim family...
This does not mean that I was "into" Islam as I grew up, it was just a superficial thing then.
In the past 2-3 years my outlook on religion and life changed as I started to really read up and understand my own religion.
Things started to make sense to me, the reason of my life was to live it to please the Almighty Allah swt and He created and sent me to earth as a test to see how much I remember Him,how grateful I am and to test if I would live up to being a good,noble human being.
Death seemed to make more sense as it is not the end but the beginning of eternal life.
I know I am not guaranteed Paradise, but it is Allah's swt mercy that will allow me into Paradise.
I always used to wonder about how some people in this world suffer so much while others enjoy all their life, how some are more beautiful than others, how some find their place in the world while others seem lost in the chaos.
When I started learning more about Islam I understood that in the Hereafter for those who suffered in this world in the hands of others will have justice and be rewarded for their patience.
Lifes roles as mothers,fathers,brothers,sisters etc had their exact roles mapped out and in this that mothers need not work if they did not wish to(as being a mother and helping the children attain the best in their life is hard enough work) and it is the duty of the father to help build a financially/emotionally secure home for his family.
It is also the duty of parents to educate their children in all fields as the more we learn about science etc the more we can appreciate the environment around us.
And racial differences made sense to me, that no one is different from the other accept for their level of faith.
Another thing I understood was that whatever I did in my life was done as a muslim and my whole life from sleeping to waking up,to eating to cleansing, to talking to arguing all counted as deeds good or bad.Islam a comlete way of life and this means that I should not be a muslim just when I pray.
All this and more in my religion keeps me strong when the going gets tough and thankful when all's going well!
All these things make me stronger (and it still is making me more strong) as a muslim hence "firm believer".
I have also understood that being the best muslim I can be, makes me be a better neighbour,a better friend, and a better human being over all.
Disclaimer: What I am saying is not to prove a point or start an argument with anyone who does not agree with me.This is just in answer to rondom1/erics question on faith and why we believe what we believe.:)
The answer is easy. I was raised as a Free Will Baptist, but now I am Atheist. I don't believe in God, I believe in what I can see and prove. There is no way a Bibliological being magically created the world and us as human beings. But I can explain how the world was created by astronomy, and how humans were created by "evolution".
Most people need to believe in something higher than themselves, and a lot of times religion meets that criteria.
That's why it was in quotation marks, because it is a theory.Quote:
firmbeliever disagrees: I didn't know evolution of humans was a proven fact?
A theory is as close to the truth as we can get at the present time. That is not something to dismiss as "just a theory". A scientific theory is a very rigorous thing, it explains all the evidence. It's as close to proven fact as general relativity is, i.e. it fits all the evidence.
Until the theory of evolution can be 100% proven it is still just a theory, unless research has been updated since I last learned about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Capuchin
However, I believe in this theory, and the only reason firmbeliever got me was because I might have given the impression that it was a proven fact.
By using the term "just a theory" indicates that you don't have a full understanding of what the meaning of the word "theory" is in science. "just a theory" is pretty much an oxymoron.
Nothing in this world is 100% proven. It must be a horrible world you live in if you don't accept things that are only nearly 100% proven.
I do accept this theory 100%, but it Science books it is named a theory.Quote:
Originally Posted by Capuchin
Yes. Theory in science is a totally different thing than the common definition of theory in common usage.
A scientific theory is one that fits all available evidence and is falsifiable.
The scientific word that you are looking for is hypothesis. That means the same thing as "theory" does in every day use. Evolution is not a hypothesis, it's a theory.
Ah okay I get it. Hypothesis. Thank you for the correction and understanding what I was trying to say.
Comments on this postfirmbeliever disagrees: I didn't know evolution of humans was a proven fact?
Disclaimer: What I am saying is not to prove a point or start an argument with anyone who does not agree with me.This is just in answer to rondom1/erics question on faith and why we believe what we believe.
First may I call your attention to the guidelines on using the Comments feature found here:
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/feedba...ure-24951.html
I really find your negative comment hard to understand. Otto's response in this thread was to the OP, just as your's was. He stated his opnions and why he has them. No where did he indicate that evolution was fact. I found nothing different in the tone of your post and his. Your disclaimer was well put and should have applied equally as well to his post as yours. I believe you owe him an apology.
I'm going to play devil's advocate here. You see I also believe in the theory of evolution. I also believe in things I can see and prove (at least to my satisfaction). But where I differ from you is in your contention that "no way a Bibliological being magically created the world and us as human beings". Have you ever considered the possibility that some extra worldly intelligence set up the laws of physics and biology, etc. And then manipulated them to cause the creation of the universe and this planet? That such an intelligence also manipulated the laws of biology to result in homo sapiens evolving?Quote:
Originally Posted by otto186
No I don't believe in Genesis and its stories about the Garden of Eden. But I don't discount the possibility that some intelligence created and even manipulated the scientific laws that resulted in the world as we know it.
That is a good point I have never really thought of. I can understand your point of view, I can even say it's a possibility, as big as the universe is, the millions of galaxies and the hundreds of millions of planets, that there may be other intelligence out there.Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottGem
I still favor the evolutionary theory. To me, it is more believable to have simple life forms evolve to survive until we got where we are today.
I'm not telling you what to believe, I'm only offering a potentially viable alternative that ackowledges the scientifically provable facts yet offers the belief in a higher power.
To put it simply, those who are religious are afraid of being proven wrong. They are afraid of God not existing, Genesis not being true, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oracle Monroe
I must add, this is my opinion and not meant to start an argument.
Ok I have quite a bit to say here.
First of all, I live in a Jewish household where religion is not a priority and the three of us (myself and my parents) have gone in three different directions.
My father does not believe in organized religion. I have never understood this.
My mother attends a congregation of Jews for Jesus (Messianic Jews). I personally believe this is hypocritical because if you believe in Jesus, you are Christian.
I go to a Lutheran church. I consider myself to be a Jewish Christian. I celebrate ALL holidays. I am Jewish because that is my heritage. I am Christian because I believe that Jesus died for our sins.
You may ask why, if Jesus died for our sins, are we still sinful? God gave us free will. He gave us the freedom to make choices, both good and bad. He also made it so there would be consequences for our actions. I obviously cannot say for sure if Biblical stories such as that of Adam and Eve actually happened or not, but I believe that if they did not happen, they were written to teach their readers lessons. The lesson in that story is that, as I said, there are consquences for our actions.
I believe everything happens for a reason, and that God, with the assistance of our deceased loved ones, is watching over us to make sure we are living good, decent and honest lives. I don't believe God "created" consequences, just the concept of them. We create those.
As for the science vs religion battle:
Does anyone know how long "days" lasted at the beginning of time? No. It is entirely possible that the "days" in Genesis are not the same as our 24 hour days. I believe that each "day" covers a different prehistorical period, which accounts for the dinosaurs. I believe the creation timeline is the same as the evolutionary timeline. We KNOW scientifically that dinosaurs existed before humans, therefore, the creatures God created could easily have been dinosaurs.
I think I'm going to stop now before I get too far ahead of myself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oracle Monroe
Islam is not afraid of science, in fact many times in the Quran Allah(swt) asks the believers to look at the creations and seek knowledge and to ask the people who know about such things and then to verify and to know that these indeed are miracles of the Lord!
Quran chapter 002 verse 042
"And cover not Truth with falsehood, nor conceal the Truth when ye know (what it is)."
Chapter 002 verse 164
"Behold! in the creation of the heavens and the earth; in the alternation of the night and the day; in the sailing of the ships through the ocean for the profit of mankind; in the rain which Allah Sends down from the skies, and the life which He gives therewith to an earth that is dead; in the beasts of all kinds that He scatters through the earth; in the change of the winds, and the clouds which they Trail like their slaves between the sky and the earth;- (Here) indeed are Signs for a people that are wise."
We would not know about these creations until we study them...
P.S sorry Otto, my question wasn't meant as a challenge just a question as I haven't really read up on the updates of the evolution theory and didn't know it had got proven..
Was just checking to see if my facts were right!
Back 150,000-200,000 years ago, the days were much shorter than they are in present day time. This is due to the distance between the Earth and the Moon during this time. Over time, the moon moved farther away from the Earth, approximately an inch and a half each year.Quote:
As for the science vs religion battle:
Does anyone know how long "days" lasted at the beginning of time? No. It is entirely possible that the "days" in Genesis are not the same as our 24 hour days. I believe that each "day" covers a different prehistorical period, which accounts for the dinosaurs. I believe the creation timeline is the same as the evolutionary timeline. We KNOW scientifically that dinosaurs existed before humans, therefore, the creatures God created could easily have been dinosaurs.
Second, dinosaurs could have came before humans. The earliest human was dated to be 200,000 years old, but they were not ordinary humans, they were known as Neanderthals. They were specially evolved to withstand cold, harsh climates.
For Oracle Monroe,
I found the following on the net...
"In algebra the Arabs contributed first of all the name. The word "algebra" come from the title of a text book in the subject, Hisab al-jabr w'al muqabala, written about 830 by the astronomer/mathematician Mohammed ibn-Musa al-Khowarizmi. This title is sometimes translated as "Restoring and Simplification" or as "Transposition and Cancellation." Our word "algorithm" in a corruption of al-Khowarizmi's name.
The algebra of the Arabs was entirely rhetorical.
They could solve quadratic equations, recognizing two solutions, possibly irrational, but usually rejected negative solutions. The poet/mathematician Omar Khayyam (1050 - 1130) made significant contributions to the solution of cubic equations by geometric methods involving the intersection of conics."
For your info again...Quote:
Originally Posted by Oracle Monroe
In reference to periods in the Quran about creation in six epochs of time.
"The Arabic word singular is 'yaum' plural is 'ayyam'. It can either mean a day of 24 hours, or it is a very long period, a 'yaum', an epoch."
I am not an Arab, but a muslim from a very different cultural background :) :)
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