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The propaganda phrase you accuse is exactly what the stuff that threatens America.
You don't know the Bible or the Koran, so your commenting has nothing but an emotional response, which is typical of non-believers.
I have to go to work now- Can't sit at the PC all day- it's not my job- So I am sure you will get what your ego desires Taliman, THE LAST WORD!
B/C I am done for today.
Have a good time!
31pumpkinThe propaganda phrase you accuse is exactly what the stuff that threatens America.
Propaganda only misdirects
You don't know the Bible or the Koran, so your commenting has nothing but an emotional response, which is typical of non-believers.
I have no need of a book to have a personal relationship with the God of my understanding, but I do respect those that do, to each his own choice. So take me off that non-believer list.
I have to go to work now- Can't sit at the PC all day- it's not my job- So I am sure you will get what your ego desires Taliman, THE LAST WORD!
My ego requires only peace and truth.
B/C I am done for today.
It was a blast! So you later
Have a good time!
May your day bring you happiness. I guess you were right, I did get the last word.....................for now.
That is not propaganda. Again you misunderstand. I said in my previous post- you or anyone for that matter who calls that propaganda is ignoring the threat that is real, at least now for America. You may" allegedly" call it propaganda-but there are many who see it as useful information.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
And that is exactly what Bill O'Reilly(Fox news commentator) thinks is dangerous too-to label it as propaganda. I agree with him. We need to be well-informed.
Strange. You don't have to read any books that's true- but you are allowed to criticize mine -but I get told to "keep my head down!" when I answer. HMM, something discriminating here towards women. I thought we were talking about the Bible and the Koran? Not to mention a similarity of how women should behave. I'm not a Muslim-if that's the case!
Keep the peace and let the truth reveal itself by at least giving something towards the topic, and not just about the people answering the questions. I didn't see any independent answer to the question itself by you thus far!
FYI, agreeing with Bill O'Reilly may hurt your credibility. :)
He's just an actor playing a role for ratings.
NK-
Why don't you like him? They all compete for ratings. I've checked most of them out & he's probably my favorite. His ratings are very high too. I think he's very credible & pleasant.
So you get Fox news up there in Ontario? :D
For those that study the Koran it is very obvous where a lot of the writings come from. It combines verious faiths in that area at the time, the major parts of Christianity in the Koran, and there are, comes from the sect in that area that taught that Jesus did not die on the cross and includes all those beleifs about Christ taught by that sect. One of Mohammads wife's was part of that group so it is easy to understand where he learned it from them and other people from the area.
And it is based on used as a system of control of the common people, rule based on religion is much easer to use for control more than political rule esp that of horrid leader.
Now he is not near the first to use religion as a control and will not be the last, but he is one of the first to develop one that because a major religion.
And it matters not what it is suppose to be, if it is suppose to be that of peace obviously a large group of its followers don't follow it correctly.
It matters nothing as to what it says, but in what and how it is taught and how it is inacted. Since a majority of the fighting today is because of the teachings of the Koran, one has to just understand it does not matter what the writer wanted it to be, does not matter what it was suppose to be, it is what it is.
a. I don't live in OntarioQuote:
Originally Posted by 31pumpkin
b. Fox News is not allowed a broadcast license in Canada for good reason
c. I have the internet: YouTube and many, many other sites enjoy skewering him up because he offers tons of material
He doesn't do news, he does opinion pieces. If you believe he is pleasant then we have a different definition of the word pleasant.
Media Matters - O'Reilly attacks ... and attacks ... and attacks
News Hounds: O'Reilly: St. Petersburg Times Is "Scum"
Truthdig - A/V Booth - O'Reilly Calls Peace Activist 'Lunatic'
Crooks and Liars » Bill O'Reilly
YouTube - Olbermann OWNS O'Reilly
This discussion already has gone too far. I believe that Allah and God are same, it's just up to us human beings how we want to think as.
Magprob.
Don't provide this kind of info, you are a christian you will go against Islam or .etc or a muslim will go against chritian, you think your religion is the best and he/she thinks his/her religion is best or true, Only the God Allah know which is true and the best. I can provide you tons of sayings and links against christiaity by other followers, but will their sayings make any difference to the christianity or what you wrote made any difference to islam, no. I think if we follow those kind of people then we will be standing at nowhere.Quote:
"We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity. We weren't punctilious about locating and punishing only Hitler and his top officers. We carpet-bombed German cities; we killed civilians. That's war. And this is war"... Ann Coulter, Top Leading Christian Worldwide speaker.
"I don’t believe this is a wonderful, peaceful religion. When you read the Koran and you read the verses from the Koran, it instructs the killing of the infidel, for those that are non-Muslim." "The Islamic faith is wicked, violent, and not of the same God. It is a very evil and wicked religion."... Rev. Franklin Graham (son of Billy Graham)
I don't think we need to judge anybody by his/her belife, beduase no religion teaches intolerance. But a person can be judged by his/her action. If a person kills an innocent he/she is a plain killer, you don't put a christian or a muslim killer in front of their names. Who ever commints a wrong doing he/she will have to face the consequesnces either in this world of here afetr. I am responsiblef for my actions and your are for your actions.
If you ask a true muslim about ladin, he/she will say he went totally againt Islamic teaching, Islam NEVER taught these kind of acts. Having a name like a muslim don't make you a muslim, he misused the name of Islam and spread terror. Islam teachers not to kill an innocent, doesn't matter what their believes are and not even in the case of war.
About Dr. Naik (keep in mind I am not defending him, I am just writing back what you said). You might re-read what he said. He said"I say every Muslim should be a ‘terrorist for the anti-social elements of society’. A terrorist is a person who causes terror. The moment a robber sees a policeman he is terrified. A policeman is a terrorist for the robber. Similarly every Muslim should be a terrorist for the anti-social elements of society, be they thieves, pick-pockets, black-marketers or rapists. Whenever an anti-social element sees a Muslim, he should be terrified. It is true that the word ‘terrorist’ is generally used for a person who causes terror among innocent people. But a true Muslim should only be a terrorist to anti-social elements and not to innocent people. In fact a Muslim should be a source of peace and solace for innocent and righteous people."
Here is the link provided with more info might read it again with open mind.
Faq on Islam.
Pumpking said Islam is a violent religion, and it is in the Quran, could you please tell me, but before to anwer, search around and look in what circumstaces that perticular verse was revealed and in what cases it implies, what is the story behind, because every verse has a perticular meaning behind it either in the quran or bible.
If so, then all the verses provided by Marganite are same as the Quran, either way you think are from the bible or Quran.
To be a good muslim one has to respect any religion by any means, if a muslim is disrespecting any religion by anyway he/she is not following the precep of Islam.
We can have discussion, can share thought about other religions to gain knowledge, but with respect.
On thing if someone need info about a perticular religion, ask somebody who is practicing that religion, if you ask a questions about christianity to muslim, then you know what kind of answer you will get, or v. versa.
Quote:
Originally Posted by magprob
That is a disgraceful and untrue thing to say about millions upon millions of Muslims who have no animosity towards Christians. What a pity that you do not show the same spirit towards them, but engagein beliigerent bellicosity. Have you forgotten the words of Peter, or do you choose to ignore them in your bigoted anger?
"Render not railing for railing but contrariwise blessing."
Remember that "an eye for an eye" makes everyone blind.
I pray for the misguided souls of Christians who see Jesus as a warrior-Avenger and strike at those whom they have determined are His enemies! Is your Jesus such a weakling that he needs people like you to defend him and avenge pretended slights?
If God is love, and you speak hatred, which god do you worship? You cannot serve God and vengeance, for no man can serve two masters.
Inexcusable Tolerance for Religious Extremism in America
by FEDWA WAZWAZ
Since the terrorist attacks on Sept 11, many high-ranking leaders of the religious right in America have been quite vocal attacking Islam, the Qur'an and Prophet Muhammad in the public square. With a few exceptions, American columnists, intellectuals and political leaders have encouraged this hate campaign with their silence.
For example, Rev. Franklin Graham, Billy Graham's son and successor who participated in the president's inauguration, declared Islam a "very evil and wicked religion."
And in a recent appearance on Fox News Channel's "Hannity & Colmes" program, Christian Coalition founder and television evangelist Pat Robertson, attacked Islam and the Prophet Muhammad. About Muhammad, Robertson said: "This man was an absolute wild-eyed fanatic. He was a robber and a brigand. And to say that these terrorists distort Islam, they're carrying out Islam. I mean, this man [Muhammad] was a killer. And to think that this is a peaceful religion is fraudulent." Robertson also called Islam "a monumental scam."
In addition, on the CBS program "60 Minutes," the Rev. Jerry Falwell attacked Prophet Muhammad as a "terrorist." Last summer, Falwell defended Southern Baptist pastor Jerry Vines who declared at the denomination's convention wherein President Bush spoke via satellite, that Muhammad was a "demon-possessed pedophile" and that Islam teaches the destruction of all non-Muslims.
These are not the words of the KKK or some outcast group. These are influential leaders within America that share a close relationship with the President, his administration and many Republican leaders. Neither the Bush Administration nor any Republican leader has condemned their attacks or disassociated themselves from these extremists.
While CBS and Fox News are free to invite people to raise arguments or challenges to Islam, they have not shown fairness or balance by not inviting Muslim Scholars to respond to these attacks.
If America is intolerant to religious extremism, one would hear within the public square criticism of extremists of all faiths. However, we only hear Muslim extremists being condemned.
To illustrate my point, for the past year we have seen a deluge of articles, opinion pieces, and reports on Muslim clerics teaching hatred toward Christianity and Judaism and silence within the mainstream press to malicious attacks against Islam.
For example, Thomas Friedman one of the most influential columnists in America, reminded us over and over again that the 19 Muslim men who attacked the WTC and Pentagon came from Egypt and Saudi Arabia. In a tireless manner, he wrote extensively on the "madrassas", or schools, that teach Muslims to hate non Muslims. He forgot the hundreds of thousands of American Jews who go settle in Israel and are taught that Arabs are "vermin," "snakes," or "evil." Alan Goodman was an American Jewish citizen who went to the Al Aqsa compound and started shooting at worshippers. Baruch Goldstein, another American Jewish citizen, opened fire on Muslim worshippers kneeling in prayer within the Ibrahimi mosque in Hebron in 1994, killing 29 instantly and wounding dozens.
There is no shrine honoring bin Laden in Saudi Arabia, but there is a shrine honoring Goldstein in an illegal Jewish settlement in the West Bank, where thousands come annually to honor his "martyrdom", even from America.
Actually, these Jewish settlers have a strong political and religious relationship with the Christian right leaders who are bashing Islam ad nauseaum.
One has to ask: where is Friedman's pen regarding the seminaries within America that produced Goldstein, Goodman and the nefarious armed Jewish settlers who believe they have a God-given right to steal Arab land by force? Where are Friedman's thought-provoking articles regarding Graham, Falwell, and Robertson's attacks against Islam and their alliances with the Bush administration?
As a Muslim convinced of my faith, I don't want people to be afraid to question Islam, raise arguments or questions about the Qur'an or Prophet Muhammad. However, I question the platform where we are viciously attacked and our voices are silenced or distorted.
America is a free county, however, there is a "Do Not Enter" sign for Muslims who want to enter the public square and respond to these vitriolic attacks.
When Muslims are given the chance, they can easily show that these attacks against Islam are absolutely false and that those who are attacking Islam are doing so in the spirit of hatred, not in the spirit of Jesus, Moses or any prophet of God.
Speak evil of no man.
M:)RGANITE
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickJ
It is remarkable [!] that I have this morning been reading statements from early Church Father, Origen, and marking his interesting 'take' on the Godhead. Whether an individual Christian is strictly monotheirstic or not depends on how they, personally, regard the teaching of the Trinity.
I have met with some members of, for one example, the Church of England who do not accept the trinitarian teaching that the three Gods add up to one single entity. Can these be properly described as Christians? It is my belief that they not only can be so designated, but that they are so in every way.
Swinburne says that the early church creeds denied the view that there were “three independent divine beings, any of which could exist without the other; or which could act independently of each other.” In effect, a doctrine of three independent beings who could act independently of one another is a polytheism that limits the number of the gods to three.
Mormonism is sometimes said to be tritheism for holding that the Father, Son, and Spirit are three different beings, although in pratcise I think you will find that Mormonism is monotheistic by worshiping only the Father. Their belief in other deities, to which no allegiance or worship is owed, is properly called henotheism, which is as different from polytheirm as it is from monotheism.
My researches into what I will call primitive Christianity finds no mention of a Trinity and although the picture becomes extremely confused by a wide variety of opinions until the Chalcedonian Definition, and even later than that the matter was far from settled, referral to the Bible makes no mention of trinitarian thinking, bur rather separateness, of which Jesus himself emerges as the main authority through his sayings about his Father and himself.
If Christianity is strictly monotheistic, and Islam in also strictly monotheistic, then why the gulf between them, and why do not Judaism, Christianity, and Islam embrace each other in a common bond of faith? If they are all strictly monotheistic there could be no problem, no barrier. And yet there is an unbridgeable divide between Judaism and Christianity, and between Christianity and Islam.
M:)RGANITE
.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ashleysb
Is Jesus only a prophet?
The Gospel According to John
Chapter Nine
1 ¶ AND as [Jesus] passed by, he saw a man which was blind from [his] birth.
John 9:2
2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?
John 9:3
3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.
John 9:4
4 I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.
John 9:5
5 As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.
John 9:6
6 When he had thus spoken, he spat on the ground, and made clay of the spittle, and he anointed the eyes of the blind man with the clay,
John 9:7
7 And said unto him, Go, wash in the pool of Siloam, (which is by interpretation, Sent.) He went his way therefore, and washed, and came seeing.
John 9:8
8 ¶ The neighbours therefore, and they which before had seen him that he was blind, said, Is not this he that sat and begged?
John 9:9
9 Some said, This is he: others [said], He is like him: [but] he said, I am [he].
John 9:10
10 Therefore said they unto him, How were thine eyes opened?
John 9:11
11 He answered and said, A man that is called Jesus made clay, and anointed mine eyes, and said unto me, Go to the pool of Siloam, and wash: and I went and washed, and I received sight.
John 9:12
12 Then said they unto him, Where is he? He said, I know not.
John 9:13
13 ¶ They brought to the Pharisees him that aforetime was blind.
John 9:14
14 And it was the sabbath day when Jesus made the clay, and opened his eyes.
John 9:15
15 Then again the Pharisees also asked him how he had received his sight. He said unto them, He put clay upon mine eyes, and I washed, and do see.
John 9:16
16 Therefore said some of the Pharisees, This man is not of God, because he keepeth not the sabbath day. Others said, How can a man that is a sinner do such miracles? And there was a division among them.
John 9:17
17 They say unto the blind man again, What sayest thou of him, that he hath opened thine eyes? He said, He is a prophet.
John 9:18
18 But the Jews did not believe concerning him, that he had been blind, and received his sight, until they called the parents of him that had received his sight.
John 9:19
19 And they asked them, saying, Is this your son, who ye say was born blind? How then doth he now see?
John 9:20
20 His parents answered them and said, We know that this is our son, and that he was born blind:
John 9:21
21 But by what means he now seeth, we know not; or who hath opened his eyes, we know not: he is of age; ask him: he shall speak for himself.
John 9:22
22 These [words] spake his parents, because they feared the Jews: for the Jews had agreed already, that if any man did confess that he was Christ, he should be put out of the synagogue.
John 9:23
23 Therefore said his parents, He is of age; ask him.
John 9:24
24 Then again called they the man that was blind, and said unto him, Give God the praise: we know that this man is a sinner.
John 9:25
25 He answered and said, Whether he be a sinner [or no], I know not: one thing I know, that, whereas I was blind, now I see.
John 9:26
26 Then said they to him again, What did he to thee? How opened he thine eyes?
John 9:27
27 He answered them, I have told you already, and ye did not hear: wherefore would ye hear [it] again? Will ye also be his disciples?
John 9:28
28 Then they reviled him, and said, Thou art his disciple; but we are Moses' disciples.
John 9:29
29 We know that God spake unto Moses: [as for] this [fellow], we know not whence he is.
John 9:30
30 The man answered and said unto them, Why herein is a marvellous thing, that ye know not whence he is, and [yet] he hath opened mine eyes.
John 9:31
31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.
John 9:32
32 Since the world began was it not heard that any man opened the eyes of one that was born blind.
John 9:33
33 If this man were not of God, he could do nothing.
John 9:34
34 They answered and said unto him, Thou wast altogether born in sins, and dost thou teach us? And they cast him out.
John 9:35
35 ¶ Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God?
John 9:36
36 He answered and said, Who is he, Lord, that I might believe on him?
John 9:37
37 And Jesus said unto him, Thou hast both seen him, and it is he that talketh with thee.
John 9:38
38 And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him.
The understanding of the man born blind was opened bit by bit to move from believing that Jesus was merely a man, to believing that he was a prophet of God, and from believing he was a prophet to believing that Jesus was the very Son of God.
There is an eternal world of difference between a prophet of God and the Son of God. Muhammed may have been a prophet, but Jeus was most certainly not a prophet.
M:)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 31pumpkin
If we judge a God or a faith by its adherents, what are we to make of the faith and God of the Medicis?
The Grand Wazoo has spoken.
There is only one God, yet people see Him in many ways. It just depends on how you see Him.Quote:
Originally Posted by galveston
I'm sorry, you are right Morganite, 3,000 killed in the twin towers and now roughly 3,000 soldiers killed and more everyday just isn't enough. Let's wait until they kill six million of us before we step up and say that is enough. Will that make you happy? After all, we really want to make you happy! That is our number one goal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Morganite
Philosophy verses Reality. Tell us another bed time story Grandpa!
To 31pumpkin, I have nothing personally against you, but I was only trying to give you the benefit of the fruit of a personal relationship with the God that I understand. The bible is a good history book that lays guidance to the reader, as the Koran does exactly the same thing and these are facts that unless you look open mindedly, all you see is the rhetoric that has blinded us as humans and kept us apart for so long. Who do you think benefits the most when humans cannot settle their differences and work together? My so called attacks on you where not personal, but a counter to what you have said, which is not your belief, but repeating the BS of the uninformed. You are not alone in that nor is the religion you hold so dear. For those reasons and to my amusement, from being on the outside looking in, Christianity and Islam share so much, that its hard to tell which is which. To bad, neither of you can step back and look at the big picture more honestly, so instead of spewing scripture at each other, you would be breaking bread.
It is for this reason and a few others, that I respectfully submit that there is no difference at all between The Islamic Allah, or the Christian/Jewish Jehovah.
Makes sense to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by lnl232699
Reading the above, Some of these posts from seeming helpful,good hearted people in other threads, Just reinforces why fundamentalist of all faiths are to be feared.
My god is greater than your god and I will kill you to prove it.
Funny how many folks ignore the fact that christians,muslims and jews all lived together in peace for many years before the west stuck its nose in the M.E.
You forget the divide between Judiaism and Islam. Completes the circle. That is what makes them different branches of the same tree.Quote:
If Christianity is strictly monotheistic, and Islam in also strictly monotheistic, then why the gulf between them, and why do not Judaism, Christianity, and Islam embrace each other in a common bond of faith? If they are all strictly monotheistic there could be no problem, no barrier. And yet there is an unbridgeable divide between Judaism and Christianity, and between Christianity and Islam.
M:)RGANITE
You are right as no matter the religion its always that small group who to keep power must keep the population stirred up against one enemy or another. Usually wealth is the bottom line and main motivation and as far as living in peace in the middle east? Wealth and personal power has always motivated one war or another as it was only the academics and scholars who broke bread and exchanged ideas and promoted free thinking by coping the great literal works of ancient man. Baghdad had the biggest library in the world and to bad that it was closed, looted, and burned centuries ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSavage
Muhammed's thesis was that both Judaism and Christianity had become apostate, and Islam was intended to restore the true faith. That is why elements of each are common to Islam and are found within the pages of al Qur'an..Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck
It mostly depends on the language in one reads the various holy books. What does a Holy Bible in Arabic call God? What does al Qur'an in English call Allah?Quote:
Originally Posted by ordinaryguy
:)
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSavage
Maybe "Onlyism" would be a better description--Only one Scripture, Only one interpretation. The key to understanding the mindset is to realize that they BEGIN with the answer--what the Scripture "says"--and therefore no further thought or discussion is necessary, and all other evidence is a threat. The absolute certitude that their choice of a holy book and their interpretation of its meaning are not actually their choices, but are given directly by God make them totally impervious to reason or logic, and absolutely intolerant of any and all alternatives. You got to admit, it's a heckuva suit of armor.Quote:
Originally Posted by Morganite
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