Ask Me Help Desk - Cult or religion

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Originally Posted by 450donn

Christianity does NOT align with the list. However the Mormon, the JW do fit the bill perfectly.

You seem to be completely unaware of how absurd of this statement will appear to a non-Christian. You really aren't advancing the ball for your team.

I notice CowboyFriendly hasn't been back since she poked this hornet's nest. When they disappear like that, I always wonder why.

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So by that definition, you consider all schools to be cults - right?

Not all schools teach the bible Tom, only the Christian schools do it with regularity. Seeing as most kids that attend Chrisitian schools are in fact members of Christian church, yes, I consider them a cult.

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I said 20 people meeting who subsequently become formally organized.

Then I misread your original post. Sorry, human, I sometimes miss things.

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Where are you getting your definition from?

The Catholic school that I went to. We did a very long study on cults in religion class, and yes, we determined that all organized religious groups, including the Catholic church are indeed cults.

Once again, you seem to think that stating that these groups are a cult is a negative thing and in this case it isn't. It's just a definition, why are you all so upset about it?

I can't argue with fanatics.

Main Entry:
fa·nat·ic
Pronunciation:
\fə-ˈna-tik\
Function:
adjective
Etymology:
Latin fanaticus inspired by a deity, frenzied, from fanum temple — more at feast
Date:
1550

: marked by excessive enthusiasm and often intense uncritical devotion <they're fanatic about politics>

Taken from here: fanatic - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

Please take the time to read post #3 again with an open mind this time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Altenweg

Not all schools teach the bible Tom, only the Christian schools do it with regularity. Seeing as most kids that attend Chrisitian schools are in fact members of Christian church, yes, I consider them a cult.

Okay so now we have a third leg of your definition - the organized group must teach the Bible, not anything else. If they teach the Koran is that okay or is that a cult? What about the Bhagavat Gita? What about science? What about evolution? What abolut literature in general? Where are the boundaries of what they can or cannot teach to be considered a cult under your definition, and upon what do you base this?

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Originally Posted by Tj3

Agreed. That is not what I said. I said that those who do adhere to the Bible would not comply with the definition for a cult.

Look let me make this very plain and extremely simple reading and applying the bible is irrelevant when every church or religion is a cult. Just get use to the name. I dot see cult as a bad thing and because of the many definition I have been able to see that its really the media that puts such a bad stigma on the word

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Originally Posted by lighterrr

Look let me make this very plain and extremely simple reading and applying the bible is irrelevant when every church or religion is a cult. Just get use to the name. I dot see cult as a bad thing and because of the many definition I have been able to see that its really the media that puts such a bad stigma on the word

I am just trying to understand this unique definition that you and Altenweg have, and where you got it from.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Synnen

I can't argue with fanatics.

Main Entry:
fa·nat·ic
Pronunciation:
\fə-ˈna-tik\
Function:
adjective
Etymology:
Latin fanaticus inspired by a deity, frenzied, from fanum temple — more at feast
Date:
1550

: marked by excessive enthusiasm and often intense uncritical devotion <they're fanatic about politics>

Taken from here: fanatic - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

Please take the time to read post #3 again with an open mind this time.

Its OK buddy you tried, there will be more in the not to distant future, you know its like the saying goes you can't teach an old dogs new tricks.

Actually, yes, Tj3---people who are devoted to the belief of Darwinism are also a cult.

So are people who are devoted to a movie (look at the Star Wars movies as an example) or a book (The Lord of the Rings, anyone?).

ANY belief is subject to being a cult--whether that is the belief in Jesus, the belief in Allah, the belief in evolution, or the belief that the roast beef sandwich is the best invention ever. It's when a group gets together and DEFINES the belief, and disallows any variance of the belief to be the "real" belief that you have a cult.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lighterrr

its ok buddy you tried, there will be more in the not to distant future, you know its like the saying goes you can't teach an old dogs new tricks.

Calling yourself an old dog, now? ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tj3

Okay so now we have a third leg of your definition - the organized group must teach the Bible, not anything else. If they teach the Koran is that okay or is that a cult? What about the Bhagavat Gita? What about science? What about evolution? What abolut literature in general? Where are the boundaries of what they can or cannot teach to be considered a cult under your definition, and upon what do you base this?

You all brought the bible into this! You all claimed that people who adhere to the bible aren't cults, that's why I'm discussing groups that teach the bible. No one ever mentioned the Koran or anything else because I'm sure you all believe that they are cults in a negative way.

Any organized group that follows a certain religious belief is a cult.

My God Tom, are you running out of arguments, is that why you're nit picking everything to death?

I'm done.

I agree with Synnen, there is no sense discussing things with fanatics! I might as well just run in circles, I'd get further.

Over and out. Why don't you all just discuss things amongst yourselves?

I stick to what I believe, you stick to what you believe, it won't effect me anyway.

Bye now.

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Originally Posted by Altenweg

You all brought the bible into this! You all claimed that people who adhere to the bible aren't cults, that's why I'm discussing groups that teach the bible. No one ever mentioned the Koran or anything else because I'm sure you all believe that they are cults in a negative way.

First, don't try to assume what you think that I believe - you don't do well at it.

Right - I said people that adhere to the teachings of the Bible do not comply with the definition of a cult. It was then that you came up with a different definition which appears to be that every organized group that teaches the Bible is a cult. I am trying to understand your definition, what the limits are around it, and the basis for it.

To be quite honest, the definition sounds quite arbitrary and I have never heard anything remotely like it before.

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Originally Posted by Tj3

Abide by the essential teachings of the Bible.

Whose canon and which translation, and "essential" according to whom?

And just to save us all some time, don't serve up yet another heaping pile of that "the-Bible-interprets-itself" crap that you're so fond of. Where there's a reader, there IS an interpreter. If you aren't willing to claim it as your own, don't expect other people to take your interpretation seriously.

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Originally Posted by Synnen

How does the Bible make one exempt from being a cult?

A cult is, simply, a group of people that follow the same belief in an organized manner.

Frankly, the very IDEA that Christians think they are exempt from the same status as EVERY OTHER RELIGION scares the heck out of me.

I could not agree more, scares me to

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Originally Posted by ordinaryguy

Whose canon and which translation, and "essential" according to whom?

There is one canon historically accepted by all Christians. In the last few hundred years, a few denominations (very few) added to the canon for their specific denominations. That does not change the canon accepted by Christianity as a whole.

Translation does not matter. Where differences occur, we go back to the original Greek. But translations have not affected essential teachings in any case.

We can go back to the 1st entury church and see what was essential to them.

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And just to save us all some time, don't serve up yet another heaping pile of that "the-Bible-interprets-itself" crap that you're so fond of. Where there's a reader, there IS an interpreter. If you aren't willing to claim it as your own, don't expect other people to take your interpretation seriously.

Just because you have difficulty reading without interpreting does not mean others do.

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Originally Posted by Synnen

Calling yourself an old dog, now? ;)

Lol no I'm only 30 didn't you hear 30 is the new 20. I commend you on your post and agree with you 100% ALLL THE WAY

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Originally Posted by Altenweg

Not all schools teach the bible Tom, only the Christian schools do it with regularity. Seeing as most kids that attend Chrisitian schools are in fact members of Christian church, yes, I consider them a cult.

Then I misread your original post. Sorry, human, I sometimes miss things.

The Catholic school that I went to. We did a very long study on cults in religion class, and yes, we determined that all organized religious groups, including the Catholic church are indeed cults.

Once again, you seem to think that stating that these groups are a cult is a negative thing and in this case it isn't. It's just a definition, why are you all so upset about it?

Alti I agree completely I also went to catholic school my entire life. Yes the church is a cult and there's nothing wrong with that. Most importantly there is nothing wrong with the word cult

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Originally Posted by Tj3

Just because you have difficulty reading without interpreting does not mean others do.

Everybody who reads, interprets, even you. The notion of reading without interpreting is preposterous. Give it up.

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Originally Posted by ordinaryguy

Everybody who reads, interprets, even you. The notion of reading without interpreting is preposterous. Give it up.

Like I said, if you find it hard, don't assume that no one else can just read and accept what it says.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tj3

Like I said, if you find it hard, don't assume that no one else can just read and accept what it says.

If you think you can read something and understand "what it says" without interpreting it, you're deluding yourself. A literal interpretation is a choice you make, and if you're satisfied with it, that's fine. But it IS your choice, so don't pretend you aren't making it.

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Originally Posted by ordinaryguy

If you think you can read something and understand "what it says" without interpreting it, you're deluding yourself. A literal interpretation is a choice you make, and if you're satisfied with it, that's fine. But it IS your choice, so don't pretend you aren't making it.

If I say "The sky is blue" - tell me your interpretation.