You really don't see the contradiction in this comment do you?Quote:
Retrotia disagrees: It's love that's the greatest of these- faith, hope, & love. Why do u have it missing?
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You really don't see the contradiction in this comment do you?Quote:
Retrotia disagrees: It's love that's the greatest of these- faith, hope, & love. Why do u have it missing?
The Koran says the same, so Muslim believers have exactly the same basis for claiming that it is "completely infallible". It's OK with me if you (and they) believe this for the purpose of finding your own salvation, but I do have a problem with your insistence that the rest of us MUST accept both your premise and your conclusions. It's this inability (or unwillingness) to see that your assumptions, beliefs and conclusions are valid only for yourself and those who agree with you that the rest of us find so arrogant and offensive. It would be bad enough if you just told us we were stupid and wrong, but the icing on the cake is to invoke God's wrath along with your own and threaten us with eternal torture if we don't shape up. It really shouldn't surprise you that your approach meets some resistance, even among those (like myself) who find much in the Bible to love and cherish.Quote:
Originally Posted by poppa0777
Duh... charity is love... so why did you give me a disagree? If you want to deny the facts then you really are as smart as you thought. I got that straight from the bible. I was in Missionettes for 4 years and I had to memorize that passage. Even though I'm not a christian today, I still remember the things I was taught and I still remember the bible verses I memeorized. I wouldn't post something I thought was untrue. I checked to make sure I had every word currect accourding to the NKJ verson. I'd like an apology. Lol your not as samrt as you thought you were because that statement was completely dumb. You should have looked up charity in the dictionary. Duh.
1 Corinthians 13 [Click this icon to listen to an audio file of 1 Corinthians 13]
The Way of Love
13:1 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but I do not have love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 13:2 And if I have prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith so that I can remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 13:3 If I give away everything I own, and if I give over my body in order to boast, 1 but do not have love, I receive no benefit.
13:4 Love is patient, love is kind, it is not envious. Love does not brag, it is not puffed up. 13:5 It is not rude, it is not self-serving, it is not easily angered or resentful. 13:6 It is not glad about injustice, but rejoices in the truth. 13:7 It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
13:8 Love never ends. But if there are prophecies, they will be set aside; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be set aside. 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part, 13:10 but when what is perfect 2 comes, the partial will be set aside. 13:11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. But when I became an adult, 3 I set aside childish ways. 13:12 For now we see in a mirror indirectly, 4 but then we will see face to face. Now I know in part, but then I will know fully, just as I have been fully known. 13:13 And now these three remain: faith, hope, and love. But the greatest of these is love.
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This is" love" in the NKJ & NIV versions. Just because both words mean 'agape' in the Greek- there is no reason for some Bible translators to substitute the word charity for love.
The word "charity" is too elusive to use also in other passages that call for the word "love" that is used.
Charity is an outworking of Love. Think about this... If charity was the greatest virtue-how does that make someone feel who has nothing & is in need of "charity?" This is one reason why the word charity is inappropriate.
Also, faith, hope, & love are cardinal virtues that we take with us to heaven. Can you even understand taking "charity" with you? No, it implies something material also.
So, sorry if I offended you- but I don't agree with the interpretation you've been given or have learned.
Love never fails.
Ok I couldn't care less what verson it is. The fact is charity means love. It's a different word for love. You are clearly not very bright. Look up the word. You think you got all the asnwers, guess what... you don't. Your wrong. I'm right. Charity is love. I had plenty of bibles and in one charity was used as love. Don't f-ing try to tell me what's what. You don't even know of what you speech. God I am so tired of talking to people who are not smart. I like converstaions with people who know about what they speech not people who think they do.
Look up this... this will prove your clearly just spitting out crap. Its in KJ duhhhh Here's from an online bible...
Bible Resources, Online Bible, Read the Bible, Search the Bible, Bible Study Plan, Passage Search, Keyword Search
Charity charity charity charity!! I could be 10 and know that charity is another word for love.
Here's the dictonarys veiw...
Charity (virtue) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Note that the King James Version uses both the words charity and love to translate the idea of caritas / ἀγάπη: sometimes it uses one, sometimes the other, for the same concept. Most other English translations, both before and since, do not; instead throughout they use the same more direct English word love, so that the unity of the teaching should not be in doubt. Love can have other meanings in English, but as used in the Bible it almost always refers to the virtue of caritas.
I don't think anyone except for "mother Teresa" could claim to possess that kind of love you are referring to------BUT do not display with your words- either love or charity towards your fellow man. That is a martyr's spirit-such perfection of the human spirit. And this perfection only wanes- starting with the believers & ending with the rest of the world's beliefs.
For me, it's "love thy neighbor as thyself" which means doing & saying no harm.
I'm not perfect. And I do believe love can mean self-sacrifice, but it must be weighed by wisdom.
I do suggest you look at your own words- because they aren't charitable or loveable.
Here's one ex.-
He who guards his mouth preserves his life(Proverbs 13:3)
To revert to your original question- If you are happy with your beliefs & that it doesn't matter about heaven or hell to you, then you should be content rather than caring what anyone else thinks or says.
Good luck to you.
I care what people say in regards to my own opinions. I speak my mind only to show people a different side to things. I'm not the type of person to normally get offened, but with certain opinions, I disagree and therefore do not agree and speak out against it. I will appologize to you and anyone else in this thread. I'm quick to anger sometimes this I know. I am sorry for being a bit loud and angered. I should have remained calm. After all you can't hope to show someone your veiws and expect them to listen or agree when your yelling at them. :-) So with that I say, I am not a christian at this time, however I try to keep the golden rules close at hand, in order to try to be a good person. When I referred to 1 Corinthians 13 I wasn't implying that I follow it word for word or that I even believe every word. I was trying to use it as an example of something I memorized and learned within my time as a christian and Missionette. I just wanted to show that I too, know the bible and wanted to make that clear so that you could know that I had belonged to a religion. I was a christian for 18 years or so. I was close to god and enjoyed being so. As I've said in other posts, I fell away from god because I don't understand and agree with a few things in the bible. Also my parnet's clamed to be christians, but were different people inside and out of church. I refused to be a hypocrite, and to not be like them. I wanted to serve god with my whole heart, in so doing I need to find myself and where I stand in this world. Til then I will remain without religion. Does that clear anything up?
I wanted you to know you were talking to someone with wisdom and knowledge about the religion. If I didn't know about christianity I would not have posted this question. I believe that the christian faith has become too hard, cold and lukewarm. Thus I question your way of thinking in order to rock the foundations of what you believe. It's better to question your faith then to believe blindfully. With this all said, I have made my apology, I have cleared up what I hope will help you understand better.
Regarding the charity and love debate, charity is the same thing as love just a different and older word. I gave serveral sites to look at referring to love and charity. I hope that I was able to show you that indeed they are one in the same, if you still feel that I am wrong, you are denying truth and denying truth is like denying that Jesus died and rose the 3rd day. Maybe you learned something new today, that would be a good thing. It's always nice to learn something new.
I hope we all take something from this conversation. Although it was heated once and awhile, I think for the most part a lot was said that needed to be said and perhaps we can continue this discusion and get even more from it. Good day to you all.
U08,Quote:
Originally Posted by u08dc4
First of all, I will back up what Rotatia saidabout Esau's descendants, because that is the Word of God. The first thing you must understand is that NO ONE gets to heaven by "being good" as you call it. The Bible says there is none righteous, no not one. The only way a person can make it to heaven is through and by the Blood of Christ... recognizing that His substitutionary death on the cross of Calvary is the only thing that makes provision for us to be forgiven from our sins. The Bible clearly tells us that "if any man tries to get there any other way, he's like a thief and a robber". I detect that you have a good heart, and are truly seeking the right way. Keep the good attitude you have, and you'll be OK, because I believe you're sincere.
God bless you.
Raynefreak, the first suggestion I have for you is to discontinue with your posts. You seem to be annoyed and offended by the slightest disagreement. As to your knowledge of the Word... I can't speak to that... HOWEVER... having knowledge and applying it and living it is a far different matter. Your ramblings speak volumes as to your immaturity. I have been trying to rationalize with a very irrational person.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raynefreak
I do not care what you believe, but you need to exclude yourself from a grown up forum if all you know how to do is make personal attacks. You think too highly of your self-professed wisdom if you think anything have said has shaken me. I know in whom I have believed, and am confident that He will speak to me when and if I get out of line. I apologized to you in the spirit of meekness, and you don't even have the decency to acknowledge that. I pray that this rebellious spirit you have will be replaced with the spirit of God. You will never find true peace until you draw close to the Prince of Peace! You won't find Him with Wicca or any other false religion.
What you need to understand is that "religion" will get you no where. The only thing that will get ANYONE on the only road to heaven is SALVATION.. If you die in your sins it will not be because some of us have not tried to point you in the right direction. In order for this to happen, you must be teachable... not rebellious. I am praying for you, and love your soul. I pray I will see you in Heaven. God bless you.
Poppa, did you even read my last post?
I care what people say in regards to my own opinions. I speak my mind only to show people a different side to things. I'm not the type of person to normally get offened, but with certain opinions, I disagree and therefore do not agree and speak out against it. I will appologize to you and anyone else in this thread. I'm quick to anger sometimes this I know. I am sorry for being a bit loud and angered. I should have remained calm. After all you can't hope to show someone your veiws and expect them to listen or agree when your yelling at them. :-) So with that I say, I am not a christian at this time, however I try to keep the golden rules close at hand, in order to try to be a good person. When I referred to 1 Corinthians 13 I wasn't implying that I follow it word for word or that I even believe every word. I was trying to use it as an example of something I memorized and learned within my time as a christian and Missionette. I just wanted to show that I too, know the bible and wanted to make that clear so that you could know that I had belonged to a religion. I was a christian for 18 years or so. I was close to god and enjoyed being so. As I've said in other posts, I fell away from god because I don't understand and agree with a few things in the bible. Also my parnet's clamed to be christians, but were different people inside and out of church. I refused to be a hypocrite, and to not be like them. I wanted to serve god with my whole heart, in so doing I need to find myself and where I stand in this world. Til then I will remain without religion. Does that clear anything up?
I wanted you to know you were talking to someone with wisdom and knowledge about the religion. If I didn't know about christianity I would not have posted this question. I believe that the christian faith has become too hard, cold and lukewarm. Thus I question your way of thinking in order to rock the foundations of what you believe. It's better to question your faith then to believe blindfully. With this all said, I have made my apology, I have cleared up what I hope will help you understand better.
Regarding the charity and love debate, charity is the same thing as love just a different and older word. I gave serveral sites to look at referring to love and charity. I hope that I was able to show you that indeed they are one in the same, if you still feel that I am wrong, you are denying truth and denying truth is like denying that Jesus died and rose the 3rd day. Maybe you learned something new today, that would be a good thing. It's always nice to learn something new.
I hope we all take something from this conversation. Although it was heated once and awhile, I think for the most part a lot was said that needed to be said and perhaps we can continue this discusion and get even more from it. Good day to you all.
I understand how you could think that I am immiture but I can assure you I am not. I'm 21 and sure sometimes I can have my moments. I may have disagreed with some of the things said here, however I didn't disagree with everything said. Even if I did, my last post will explain. I am hurt by you words. I am not immiture, I am an adult and I have a right to post my opinions. I'm not rebelious or confussed. I've made my mends. I disagree with you, and I will leave it at that.
It is wonderful that we can disagree without the fear of torture or a firing squad as in some countries.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raynefreak
You and I will then agree to disagree. God bless you. I hope and pray you are able to work through whatever issues you have. I have a few myself. This has been very interesting. I will continue to pray for you, Raynefreak.
Thank you, I hoped I showd you that I am indeed of sound mind and not immiutre and cruel. I think you needed to know the whole story to understand me. I hope you can accept my apology. I think the bigger man is the one who admits faults and wrongs. As I've done. Thanks :-)
Not a problem! God bless you!! :oQuote:
Originally Posted by Raynefreak
RAyne I can understand what you have been trying to explain to everyone about wiccan/pagan beliefs. Lets face it, I too am Wiccan. On the first or second page someone claimed to be terriefied of witches yet most of these people do not even realize that they walk past us every day, they talk to us, invite us into their homes and bbq's. They have no knowledge of what or who we reaaly are lets face it.
Rayne you will only find peace when you embrace who you are as a human before you worry about religion getting muddled all up into it. Trying to force someone to see that we believe in a god or goddess is not easy to say the least. We are what we are. I too was raised in the midst of both worlds. My mom turned anglican for along time although she ad been raised celt. I was raised with both so I can see how hard it is for those who do not understand to reallize that we will not eat their children, turn them into anything, or sacrifice. We do not let blood in Fact our number 1 COMMANDMENT is to harm none lest ye be harmed. We do not follow the line of satanic service, in fact we turn our back on the devil because it is only when you give attention to evil that it can survive.
When people come to seek out their god or goddess and realize that there is no one way to honor our belief or no one way to show how much we do love our god, goddess etc. Those who believe that much in God should step back and maybe realize that you do not have to constantly walk around trying to convince everyone to believe as they do. By doing this they are only trying to convience themselves. When they come to peace with themselves, they are able to accept others.
Yes, yes, "no one way". This insistence on "only one way" is the source of so much conflict, both within and between people. Totally unnecessary, it seems to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by nanajo1
WICCA isn't nothing to do with satan or the devil or anything santic people don't understand about it they just say that because the tails about witches and people who were in to the occult I'm in to the occult myself buti m pagan Wicca and paganism is all about kindess and working with good energys and the natural emlemts on earth we worship nature and do nice things and worship god and goddess.Quote:
Originally Posted by Megg
If someone was satanic they would be would a chrisen witch because they would do voodoo stuff like that because they would have to believe in god and the devil so they could act agenst god you no what I'm trying to say. They use BLACK MAGIC/ but we don't we use WHITE GREEN NATURAL
Basically my take on it, besides what Fr Chuck has said, is people have the impression that Wiccan's believe the devil has more power than God and to be a Wiccan you have to believe the white magic. Magic and God do not go hand in hand. God tells us to steer clear of magic.
Also people have the impression that Wiccan's only believe in God as a force secondary to the Wiccan's beliefs when you are to put God as first in the Christian belief. The Bible says even the demons believe and shutter.
It is good to have a spiritual journey but be open to Christianity and other beliefs and come to your beliefs. I am a Christian but I like reading the ying yang teaching, the
Jewish Kabalah (not Madonna's version) and some other things that Christians shun.
I believe you can learn from everything the thing is having a good discernment.
I used to be involved in wicca and drugs. I had turned my back on God, who I thought caused all kinds of hell in my life. I am ever thankful that He never turned his back on me. He brought me to a point of realizing His love for me and my need for Him. Jesus said"John 14:6
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."
John 10:27
My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
And in Matthew 19 He tells how to get eternal life: 23 Then Jesus said to His disciples, “Assuredly, I say to you that it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 And again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”
25 When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?”
26 But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
27 Then Peter answered and said to Him, “See, we have left all and followed You. Therefore what shall we have?”
28 So Jesus said to them, “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife[k] or children or lands, for My name's sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life. 30 But many who are first will be last, and the last first.
When you say Christians are judging and not openminded, it is really Jesus who you are calling judgmental. It is His words we live by, not our own opinions.
I think you're onto something fundamentally important here. Without discernment, we are unqualified to read ANY sacred text or book of wisdom, or interpret ANY dream or vision, or weigh the words of ANY preacher, prophet, or visionary. With it, no source need be shunned.Quote:
Originally Posted by N0help4u
Do you share your interest in non-Christian spiritual teachings with any of your Christian friends? Since you say that "Christians shun" these subjects, I'm guessing that some of them would say that your interest in and reading of such things shows a lack of discernment. Is that stereotype warranted, in your experience?
Megg,
I agree with you when you wrote in one of your earlier posts that we are all made by one supreme being. I think what is important from here is to know something about that supreme being. The question is how are we to go about learning about that supreme being? What knowledge is available to us and how do we get it?
Cheers,
David
I agree with some ideas from all of you please don't put all of us christians on the bad side I don't want to judge anyone and I am trying to love everyone even my enemies as my lord as saviour Jesus Christ who prayed for the ones who killed him on the cross(jewish Priest) but I don't blame jews and the only religion which I strongly disagree is satanics where THEY REALLY DO WORSHIP THE DEVIL AND MAKE SACRIFICES BY KILLING BABIES ETC. I may not know much about the bible but then again I am still growing with the lord I ammit that I ain't perfect only God, the holy spirit, and Jesus Christ are perfect I also believe that only Jesus christ is the way to heavan but I am not going to force anyone to turn to him or judge him because I do not know how he or she feels or what they been through but I pray that they will turn form the evil ways they have been living in and go to the lord I pray for all of you and I hope that you all learn that There is some people that are very religious and are still sinning and try not to repent or just go to church so people could say "hey look! he is worshipping the lord the loudest he must truly be spiritual!" they are just religious and would burn in hell unless they repent which I truly hope they do(the repenting part :)) because God is not a religious God he wants to have a personal relitionship with every single 1 of us so I pray that you megg will return to the lord in your time because nothing good could come from returning to him if you are being forced to.
p.s. I'm truly sorry that any of you are offened by my answer but I believe that is the way. God Bless ALL of you
p.s.s I'm 16 years old so if any of you want to say I'm immature go for it.
I like this. I think there's a deep truth here.Quote:
Originally Posted by followerofjesuschrist
As a pagan, the only discontent with Christians is that they killed people who wouldn't convert. Ala.. St. Patrick leading the "snakes" (or pagans) out of Ireland. Other than that, I couldn't care what anyone believes in.
People always hate on what they don't understand. Just know that you are right, and they are right. We could all get along if we agreed to disagree
I agree to a certain extent but you can't put all people in the same category. That is a stereo typing. Not all catholics believe you will go to hell. I think its basically because they have never picked up a book on the subject becaue they were taught that anything to do with Witchcraft is bad. And it scares them to look at something other then there bible. My beliefs are that the god and goddess can be what you want them to be. And if you wish them to be in the form of jesus and mary so be it. It only changes when you name them. As pagans we use the energy of a lot of deities but we all have one that we use in everyday use. I also agree that there is no good or bad witchcraft its all in the intent you set forth on it, however I do believe Satanism is evil and it is a selfish religion. You can not practice the religion without a sacrifice of some living thing in a terrible manor. Pagans use to make sacrifices hundreds of years ago but not eat the heart of anything to better themselves. As a earth religion we (Pagans) have come to make offerings rather then sacrifices.
Yes all christians who are Truly christians believe wiccans will go to hell. Its not stereo typing. Its fact. Its in the bible. God does not like witchcraft. Those who wish to enter the kingdom of heaven can only due so through me. Me being the lord.
Hi Meg,
But that isn't what you said. You said and I quote" Why do people assume that Wicca is satanic and that I'm going to hell!' Sorry if I misunderstood. But like in magick you need to be clear in what you say and leave no room for miss inturpetation. You probery are right in regards to devout christians but the normal everyday christians really don't believe that.
Perhaps because they are afraid of what they do not know , and because many have been brainwashed for years to listen and follow the "correct" ways and paths of life (meaning the ways and paths as per their own religious preferences)?Quote:
Originally Posted by Megg
The only answer is to be non-confrontational. I have friends who I refer to as Crispies (very very Christian/Republican), they invite me to a few church things a year and I try to attend at least one thing (because my friend's in whatever the event is). Since they are my good friends the are naturally worried my soul will go to hell because I'm a tree hugging dirt worshipper :D . They tell me they pray for me and I say thank you. Some more confrontation person might say, "No thank you I have my own god/goddess". My take is that my life isn't so wonderful that I won't accept prayers to gods I don't personally pray to. If you have friends who repeatedly preach at you (but don't confuse a good debate for preaching) just ask to stop in a pleasant way such as "I thank you for your concern, but you really make me uncomfortable when you preach to me. I'm gonna go now." Unless they are a total blockhead, they will won't argue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Megg
When I first started to research Wicca (I classify myself as dirt worshipper- I love having faith but refuse all religion) and talked about it to my friends they'd all get that certain look in their eyes - like they had a sudden need for holy water. The most common question was the confusion with Satanism. So I decided to do some research on Satanism - written by it's own followers not someone looking down upon it already. Guess what I found out? The church of Satan isn't that bad. Hm. Totally self centered, but they don't sacrifice animals or humans. Sure there may always be some tramuatized goth kids with black eyeliner abusing and killing animals saying they are doing Satan's will, but there are also the Christians who bomb abortion clinics or Priests who look for love in all the wrong places, so each side has it's freaks that the whole religion should not be judged upon. Heck, I don't like religion because in each one it's becomes about the people of the church and power plays rather than faith. When someone asks me to join their I just say no, thank you with a sincere smile on my face and walk away before they can argue.
Wow, I think this is my longest post ever. :rolleyes:
Of course it is not that bad! It is just a belief, equal to Christianity or any other main religion - with the only exception of the deity involved.Quote:
Originally Posted by squeaks77
Just as there is no objective supported evidence for the correctness of the Christian claim, none is there for any other main-religion claims, Church of Satan claim, "Church of the Flying Pink Unicorn" claim , Wicca claim , "Church of the Spaghetti Monster claim , etc. etc. etc.
In short there is no objective supported evidence for any religious belief. All a person can do is BELIEVE in the existence and/or in the powers of one or more deities , whomever that deity may be. In other words the belief in any deity is based on lots of hot air, so it does not matter which deity one refers to, be that God, Allah, Hara Krishna, Devil, the Pink Unicorn, the Spaghetti Monster, Wicca deities, etc. : all of them are as far as objective supported evidence is concerned totally imaginairy !
:rolleyes:
You make it sound like that's a BAD thing. What makes "objective supported evidence" so special , and what's so wrong with imagining "realities" that inspire us? If I thought the only useful realities were those that depend on "objective supported evidence", I'd be pissed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Credendovidis
It seems that you drew some negative conclusions and suggest now that that is my position. I wonder why you do that...Quote:
Originally Posted by ordinaryguy
As long as people REALLY understand that all religion and religious thinking is based on BELIEF and not on OBJECTIVE SUPPORTED REALITY, I see no problem with specific religious views.
But the intolerance shown by so many theists - here and elsewhere - for believers with different views and/or for those rejecting such views show that many theists have lost this understanding of reality and/or the link with reality, and have convinced themselves that what they believe equals reality for them.
So seen this way your "what's wrong with imagining realitites that inspire us" indeed shows that losing that firm grip on understanding the difference between reality and imagining realities is a big and important one.
Understanding what is "objective supported evidence" is important to all of us, and understanding the difference between real "objective supported evidence" and "imagining *realities* that inspire us" is just as important.
Thank you for allowing me to point that out even clearer than I did before !
:D
I just like to rattle the cage of hyper-rationality/objectivity that you've placed around yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Credendovidis
I guess I don't see the distinction that you draw between BELIEF and OBJECTIVE SUPPORTED REALITY being as clear and unambiguous as you do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Credendovidis
In my experience, theists are neither more nor less likely to be intolerant than atheists. It's a significant minority in both camps. Being a mystic, rather than a theist, atheist, or agnostic, I have encountered intolerance from all three, though far less often from agnostics.Quote:
Originally Posted by Credendovidis
You are free to choose and live within a "reality" that includes only what you can observe directly and explain logically. But your choice in that regard is no more binding on others than their *imagined realities* are on you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Credendovidis
Your insistence that any BELIEF that goes beyond OBJECTIVITY is an inferior version of reality (or worse, a dangerous delusion) is your own value judgment, nothing more. It is legitimate and binding on you, and those who agree with you, no one else.
You're welcome, although it wasn't a lack of clarity in your statements that prompted my response. I disagree with the fundamentals of your position, not your statement of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Credendovidis
You're free to believe whatever you like but religious beliefs of whatever sort are so far based on a lot of hot air, and nothing else, as - even after thousands of years - religion has never been able to support any of it's wild dogmatic claims objectively.Quote:
Originally Posted by ordinaryguy
As to rationality : people supporting that view are at least trying (and are actually doing quite well in doing so) to support their findings on an objective supported evidence basis.
That does not make such views better than religious views in some moral or ethical way, but surely make them more valuable in a practical, pragmatic, scientific, and realistic way.
I always say : believe whatever you like to believe, as long as you realize that you believe that !
:rolleyes:
I don't know where you went to church, or what your parents are like, or how you think things through, but I believe that your "Christian experience" must have been all wrong if you're this upset about Christianity as a whole. You say that it's not just Christianity, but it seems to be the only one you mention or get riled up about. I grew up Christian as well, and I love it. Of course I think sitting through long classes is boring, but I can't sit still in school either. It's a type of learning style, not weather or not I like the subject material. I would kill myself if I had to go to Sunday school ALL Sunday, but I could sit down with the Bible and just read by myself for days. I've never looked down on, felt pity for, or preached to anyone of a different religion. Quite a few of my friends are actively Pagan, Hindu, Jewish, and (one)Shinto. I love diversity and thrive in it. My father was an atheist his entire life before he took a theology course in college and came to Jesus. I was once asked by a friend to baptize her(I was so scared that I would drop her).
I just don't understand this stereotype about Christians looking down on others, being preachy, or hating gays and witches(actually my father was adopted and his birth mother was a hippie lesbian witch, who did this one-time thing in a field with a guy and dumped her preemie asthmatic baby in an orphanage.. ). Whenever I mention that I'm Christian, I get this look that resembles disgust, and people ask me if I'm racist. It's really ridiculous. Christians are normal, smart, caring, artistic, individuals just like everyone else. Some Christians even believe in evolution. Did you know that?
And while we're on stereotypes, every friend I have that's moved here from another state originally thought that West Virginia was filled with racist, bigoted, gun-slinging, fanatical, rednecks. What the heck?
1) If you or your neighbor don't own a gun, you WILL get your trash run through by bears.
2) WV fought with the Union, and on top of that, has been a democratic state for decades.
3) I live in the capital. We have every clique imaginable. The 'creekers' or rednecks as you know them, are a very small minority who annoy the rest of us and are ignored. Every state has their weirdos.
And 4) I was told just recently that my friend from Florida was told that WV was a dump, and that she was shocked to find that it's so beautiful. Now people think we're ugly? Really? How immature. XD
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