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Originally Posted by Altenweg

That's my point though, are you sue that you aren't taking it out of context, are you sure that you're right and the JW's are wrong, or the Lutherans are wrong, or the Catholics are wrong? Not everyone can be right, someone has to be wrong, who?

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I am just reading what the Bible actually says, with respect to the local and the whole context of the Bible. If you want to discuss the blood transfusion, we can go into details regarding what the Bible does say.

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I believe in God, but not the bible and not Church or organized religion.

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Then how do you know who God is? Many people believe in many gods - how do you decide which one is right if you reject the Bible?

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I live my life the best I can, am as kind as I can be (I admit, sometimes it's hard) love my kids, my friends, my family. I don't cheat, I don't lie (at least not about anything big ;)), I'm faithful, kind and caring. Isn't that all that God wants?

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If you have lied, whether it is about anything large or small, it is still a lie.

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I just don't understand a persons willingness to die because of something they read in a man written book.

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Agreed. That is why I do not base my doctrine on writings of men or denominational teachings, but stick to what scripture says.

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I never did get an answer to my question. If God created everything, which you must believe if you believe in the bible, then didn't he also create the technology for blood transfusions? If so, then how can it be wrong? How come the JW's won't allow something that must have been created by God, or didn't God create everything?

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There is absolutely nothing wrong with blood transfusions. The Bible does not in any way condemn or imply any opposition to blood transfusions.

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Believe whatever you want, read the bible, go to church, whatever, but to deny a child a life saving procedure because you believe that God is against it, well that's murder, at least in my eyes.

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Agreed.

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Then how do you know who God is? Many people believe in many gods - how do you decide which one is right if you reject the Bible?

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God is in my heart, in my soul, not in a book. I reject the bible because it isn't the word of God, but the word of man, stories written by man. How can anyone believe the things written in the bible? Yes, there are many interesting stories, and allot of things that were witten in the bible are a good base on how to live your life, but true, I don't think so. I don't need a book to know and love God.

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If you have lied, whether it is about anything large or small, it is still a lie.

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True, and show me a person who claims he/she has never lied and I'll show you a liar. We are human, fallible, everyone has lied in their lifetime, I guarantee it.

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Agreed. That is why I do not base my doctrine on writings of men or denominational teachings, but stick to what scripture says.

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But scripture was written by men, not God. God has never written a book.

Everyone thinks that their way is the right way, the JW's, the Lutherans, Catholics, Mormons, Atheists, Deists, you name it, we all think that we're right and everone else is wrong.

Won't it be a huge laugh when we die and find that God was a forgiving, loving God after all and everyone is in heaven. If we are all children of God then we'll all go to heaven, unless he's the vengeful, hell, fire and brimstone God that most organized religions believe in.

If he is the scary God the bible speaks of, then why not strike down those that don't believe right now, he's God, so he could do that. He doesn't, why is that? Because we are all his children, even if we don't worship him.

If my kids grow up and decide to be Atheists, I won't love them any less? So why would God?

We're getting off topic, sorry, my fault. :(

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if you disobey, then hell, fire, and brimstone. Not the God I believe in, thank God.

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Not my God either. Nowhere in the bible does it say we all go to literal hell for being bad. On the other hand, he promises if we are faithful, even to the point of death, he will resurrect us to a better life on earth.

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If you look hard enough, anything in the bible can be mixed up to conform to your specific belief.

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That's why there's so much confusion today, they DON'T look hard enough into God's Word because if they did, they would see that clearly God does not want us to consume blood in any way, shape or form.

It is not just an ancient law only applicable to the Israelites, nor was it only referring to animal blood. When the apostles were given direction to instruct all christians to abstain from blood, this also included human blood.

It doesn't matter how the blood is taken into the body, whether it's by way of mouth or introvenously, the law still applies.

I think I've said this in another post of yours but I'll say it again anyway, the 40 or so men that wrote the bible were "secretaries" of God. None of them clash or contradict each other.
In saying that the bible has changed over time is admitting that someone as powerful and almighty as God can't even keep his word. But because many prophesies have been fulfilled already in the scriptures, then I have complete faith that the other prophesies not yet fulfilled will indeed come true also.
I don't think you're actually looking for an answer Alty, I think you've already made your mind up. That's completely your choice, and at least you feel comfortable with what you believe.

Lastly, if God created the technology for BT's then he must have created the technology for nuclear weapons too. Of course he created man with the ability to think and reason, but what we choose to do with our minds is up to us. It is through his holy spirit that we see and grasp the truth from his Word.

The wonderful thing about my God is that he is a just God and had good intentions for the earth and it's inhabitants, and that purpose has not changed. It has been "delayed" due to Satan's challenging his sovereignty, but that purpose will soon be realised, bringing an end to all wickedness, suffering, and best of all death. (Rev 21:3,4)

Thank goodness for that, then there'll be no need for any hospitals and emergency operations at all!

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Originally Posted by Altenweg

God is in my heart, in my soul, not in a book

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God indwells me also. But many people make the same claim and we see many differents gods indwelling others. How do you know who the right one is?

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I reject the bible because it isn't the word of God, but the word of man, stories written by man.

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What research led you to this conclusion?

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True, and show me a person who claims he/she has never lied and I'll show you a liar. We are human, fallible, everyone has lied in their lifetime, I guarantee it.

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Exactly. That is what the Bible says.

Rom 3:22-24
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
NKJV

Further, God is perfect. I think that you would agree with that. And being perfect, He cannot abide sin in His presence. However we all have sinned, so no matter how much good that we do, that sin remains.

How do you get rid of sin so that you can be acceptable to God?

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Won't it be a huge laugh when we die and find that God was a forgiving, loving God after all and everyone is in heaven

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He is loving and forgiving - so much so that He took on our form, came to earth as a man so that He could go to the cross and take the penalty that we deserved. No one need go to hell, and yet most people reject Him.

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If we are all children of God then we'll all go to heaven, unless he's the vengeful, hell, fire and brimstone God that most organized religions believe in.

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If He were vengeful, He would not have come in the flesah to take our penalty. It is not His desire that we should be condemned - well let's see what He says:

John 3:16-18
17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
NKJV

Doesn't sound vengeful to me - sounds quite loving and forgiving. But He is not going to force anyone to heaven. He gave us free will.

We aren't getting anywhere with this conversation, and I don't think we will, our views are way to different, and although interesting to discuss, we aren't going to reach a consensus.

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I don't think you're actually looking for an answer Alty, I think you've already made your mind up. That's completely your choice, and at least you feel comfortable with what you believe.

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You are right, I am quite comfortable with my beliefs, it's taken a long time for me to accept what I believe, unfortunately others still haven't accepted it. I am an anomaly to many, a person who believes in God without the bible or church. Many wonder how or why, it's incomprehensible to them.

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God indwells me also. But many people make the same claim and we see many differents gods indwelling others. How do you know who the right one is?

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How do you know that your God is the righ one? What makes you so sure that my God and yours aren't one and the same? Because of a book?

God bless you all, but I'm out, I don't want this to turn into a battle.

Peace. :)

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Originally Posted by Altenweg

You are right, I am quite comfortable with my beliefs, it's taken a long time for me to accept what I believe, unfortunately others still haven't accepted it. I am an anomaly to many, a person who believes in God without the bible or church. Many wonder how or why, it's incomprehensible to them.

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That is not so much of an anomaly - I know many who claim similar views.

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How do you know that your God is the righ one? What makes you so sure that my God and yours aren't one and the same? Because of a book?

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I know for many reasons. I know because of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, I know because I know God and what He has done in my life, and most importantly, yes, because of His word, but not just because of what it says in the book, but because the Bible has been examined and studied in detail and has been proven to be accurately not only in its detail, but also in the accuracy of the detailed prophecies.

This would be amazing for a book written by one person, but many times more so by the fact that the Bible has been written by so many different people over so many centuries, and it is not only entirely accurate, but also entirely consistent from end to end.

The reason that I ask how you know is that many people come up with beliefs in God or gods based upon conclusions that they have personally developed. You questioned why we should believe what a book says - and I have told you why. But why do you feel that your beliefs based upon your own experiences and feelings are more accurate?

If I where to describe my beliefs, they'd delete the post, because it would be a 300 page book. Yes, I too can write a book about beliefs. ;)

I respect your right to believe what you want, and the belief that the bible is fact. I do not believe that, as the people who claim it is fact are all Christians, so understandably, the are a bit biased.

I also "know" God, and what he has done in my life, without the bible and it's preachings. I believe without any physical evidence whatsoever, is that so hard to believe? Am I somehow less connected to God, in your eyes, because I do not believe in the bible?

Let me assure you, my belief in God is real, and no one can dispute it, because unlike the Christians, I do not try to backup my beliefs using a book. It's a great doorstop, a wonderful way to fill up the bookcase, but fact, not in my house.

We are once again off topic, if we wish to discuss this further perhaps a new thread should be started, I don't want to hijack this one.

Peace.

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Originally Posted by Altenweg

If I where to describe my beliefs, they'd delete the post, because it would be a 300 page book. Yes, I too can write a book about beliefs. ;)

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Yes, anyone can. But could it withstand intense scrutiny like the Bible has been proven to be able to withstand?

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I respect your right to believe what you want, and the belief that the bible is fact. I do not believe that, as the people who claim it is fact are all Christians, so understandably, the are a bit biased.

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I respect your right to believe as you wish also, but while respecting that right, I don't believe that just because someone believes it, that it is automatically right.

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I also "know" God, and what he has done in my life, without the bible and it's preachings. I believe without any physical evidence whatsoever, is that so hard to believe? Am I somehow less connected to God, in your eyes, because I do not believe in the bible?

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I never said that you were or were not. I have said nothing regarding the validity of your beliefs. I have simply asked how you validate them.

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Let me assure you, my belief in God is real, and no one can dispute it, because unlike the Christians, I do not try to backup my beliefs using a book.

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I have no doubt that your belief is real - but belief does not mean that we are right. Even many who claim to be Christians are following false teachings - the Bible tell us that in Matt 7:21-23. Personal feelings and experience are not the best way to establish truth.

Tj3, at this point I think we'll just have to agree to disagree. I cannot prove my faith, nor do I wish to, nor should I have to. We obviously believe in very different ways, and that's fine. I'm happy being a Deist, and I will remain one, I do not need proof, not in a book or any other way. Scary isn't it, I believe simply because I do. ;)

We really have strayed from the original topic, this is my last post here, unless someone wants to discuss the orignal post.

Good luck and God bless. :)

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Originally Posted by Altenweg

Tj3, at this point I think we'll just have to agree to disagree. I cannot prove my faith, nor do I wish to, nor should I have to. We obviously believe in very different ways, and that's fine. I'm happy being a Deist, and I will remain one, I do not need proof, not in a book or any other way. Scary isn't it, I believe simply because I do. ;)

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I don't know if your beliefs differ from mine - so far we have not discussed what you believe - I just asked how you validated that your beliefs were true. That is a fairly neutral question, so I am surprised that you do not wish to answer.

But that is your choice.

Tj3, I have no problem answering, but not on this thread, we are no longer discussing the original post. If you want an answer, please come to this thread;

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/religi...ns-247235.html

Perhaps after reading this you will better understand my beliefs. If not, then ask and I'll do my best to clarify without writing a novel. ;)

See you there.

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Originally Posted by Altenweg

Tj3, I have no problem answering, but not on this thread, we are no longer discussing the original post. If you want an answer, please come to this thread;

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/religi...ns-247235.html

Perhaps after reading this you will better understand my beliefs. If not, then ask and I'll do my best to clarify without writing a novel. ;)

See you there.

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Before I ask what your beliefs are - I am interested in knowing how you validated them - which post in that thread addresses that point?

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Originally Posted by Tj3

Before I ask what your beliefs are - I am interested in knowing how you validated them - which post in that thread addresses that point?

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Tom : Alty stated very clearly : "Tj3, I have no problem answering, but not on this thread, we are no longer discussing the original post.
If you want an answer, please come to this thread " https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/religi...ns-247235.html "

Don't you read posts any more before replying to them? Or are you back to aggressive posting, when someone fails to agree with your religious views ?

Alty also very clearly confirmed that she is a Deist. So are you back to harrassing others again? Is this the way you and your Bible group are "spreading the word", Tom?

Can we please return to the core of this topic, "Jehovah Witnesses and blood transfusions"?

:>)

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