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Originally Posted by ordinaryguy

Forgive me, but isn't it kind of preposterous to claim that the entire web of life as it exists on this earth is a perversion caused by original sin? By this line of reasoning all predators, parasites and scavengers are a result of sin, as are all disease-causing bacteria, viruses, phages, and fungi. And the death of any living organism, even single-celled microscopic ones must be due to sin as well. And in a deathless biology there would be no need for reproduction, in fact it would be disastrous, so that has to go too. But why would it stop there? Anything that changed biology that fundamentally would surely have also changed the laws of chemistry and physics? In a sinless universe would stars die? Just how deep did it go?

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The deathless biology you describe isn't taught in the Bible.

BTW
I bring in the Bible because this is a biblically based question.

As disgusting as they are, insect perform a purpose in life in that they facilitate the well being of being food for animal and bird life and the spread of bacteria and germs essential to life and help plants reproduce as well as act as garbage disposals for dead matter and the process of soil regeneration is also done by insects. All of God creatures has a place on earth and duty to perform. Remember that next time you swat that fly. (or that fly may be your reincarnated ancestor, think before you swat)

By the way
I really didn't think this was a religious question since the importance of insects can be seen on the Animal Channel.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

As disgusting as they are, insect perform a purpose in life in that they facilitate the well being of being food for animal and bird life and and the spread of bacteria and germs essential to life and help plants reproduce as well as act as garbage disposals for dead matter and the process of soil regeneration is also done by insects. All of God creatures has a place on earth and duty to perform. Remember that next time you swat that fly. (or that fly may be your reincarnated ancestor, think before you swat)

btw
I really didn't think this was a religious question since the importance of insects can be seen on the Animal Channel.

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Of course animals can be discussed from a nonreligious standpoint.
But note that Morganite places the question within the religious realm by bringing God into the equation and purposefuly focused on pest-like insects.

BTW
I don't find all insects disgusting. I find some, such as the butterfly, and the Ladybug and firefly quite beautiful.

"The point of philosophy is to start with something so simple as not to seem worth stating, and to end with something so paradoxical that no one will believe it."
-----Bertrand Russell

It's these damn tapeworms I can't stand!
-----magprob

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Originally Posted by Starman

Of course animals can be discussed from a nonreligious standpoint.
But note that Morganite places the question within the religeous realm by bringing God into the equation and purposefuly focused on pest-like insects.

BTW
I don't find all insects disgusting. I find some, such as the butterfly, and the Ladybug and firefly quite beautiful.

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Well, just to complicate things (I'm so darn good at that)... Aside from serving other purposes, most flies are essential pollinators of many plants. Though many butterflies feed on nectar, many species far prefer rotting fruit and dung. Ladybugs are in fact voracious predators, mostly of aphids. And finally, the bioluminescence of fireflies is achieved through the combination of oxygen and ATP with two proteins (one an enzyme), luciferin and luciferase -- the Latin etymological origins of which are fairly obvious. Just food for thought. :D

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Originally Posted by Starman

The deathless biology you describe isn't taught in the Bible.

BTW
I bring in the Bible because this is a biblically based question.

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If A&E had remained in the garden, would they have died?

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Originally Posted by talaniman

As disgusting as they are, insect perform a purpose in life in that they facilitate the well being of being food for animal and bird life and and the spread of bacteria and germs essential to life and help plants reproduce as well as act as garbage disposals for dead matter and the process of soil regeneration is also done by insects. All of God creatures has a place on earth and duty to perform. Remember that next time you swat that fly. (or that fly may be your reincarnated ancestor, think before you swat)

btw - I really didn't think this was a religious question since the importance of insects can be seen on the Animal Channel.

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The question does not address 'importance' but 'purpose,' meaning God's purpose, especially for those creatures mentioned, suich as flies and mosquitoes. It is definitely a religious question, since it asks about God's motives.

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Originally Posted by magprob

"The point of philosophy is to start with something so simple as not to seem worth stating, and to end with something so paradoxical that no one will believe it."
-----Bertrand Russell

It's these damn tapeworms I can't stand!
-----magprob

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"A pint of quassia a day
Keeps those tapeworms away!"

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Originally Posted by Morganite

The question does not address 'importance' but 'purpose,' meaning God's purpose, especially for those creatures mentioned, suich as flies and mosquitoes. It is definitely a religious question, since it asks about God's motives.

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To live long and prosper, I'd imagine. What more purpose do they need, other than to be happy. The world would function quite fine without humans, on the other hand, likely a good deal better in fact. :)

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Originally Posted by Morganite

If A&E had remained in the garden, would they have died?

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God established a law of cause and effect for morality as he did for the physical world. Sin would lead to death regardles of geographical location. The Garden itself was a gift for his obedient Earthly children. The reason he removed them from it was because they were now willfully disobedient and no longer deserved to live there.


Romans 5:12
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

BTW
Notice that the ones whose lifespan was affected by sin were humans.

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Originally Posted by Starman

God established a law of cause and effect for morality as he did for the physical world. Sin would lead to death regardles of geographical location. The Garden itself was a gift for his obedient Earthly children. The reason he removed them from it was because they were now willfully disobedient and no longer deserved to live there.

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They were relocated as a result of sin. Had they not sinned, they would havwe remained in the G of E, but would they have died?


M:)

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Originally Posted by Thomas1970

Well, just to complicate things (I'm so darn good at that)... Aside from serving other purposes, most flies are essential pollinators of many plants. Though many butterflies feed on nectar, many species far prefer rotting fruit and dung. Ladybugs are in fact voracious predators, mostly of aphids. And finally, the bioluminescence of fireflies is achieved through the combination of oxygen and ATP with two proteins (one an enzyme), luciferin and luciferase -- the Latin etymological origins of which are fairly obvious. Just food for thought. :D

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I was referring to their physdical beauty not their behavioral one which might include predation.

Pollination? True.
Some might have been created as pollinators but were not created to pester mankind in any way either on a one-to-one basis or on a plague basis. In short, if they are pestiferous now that was not the way they were intended to be. The same applies to the other insects you mention.

BTW

Mars, Jupiter, Uranus, Neptune, Mercury, Venus, Saturn, Pluto.

Thursday=Day of Thor Saturday= Saturns day. January=the god Janus. Monday=honoring the moon goddess

There are many others.
Does that mean that I can't appreciate any of the planets because they are named after false gods? Or can't considered a day or season beautiful because men call them by false god's names?

http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/jwst/elazarav.htm

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Originally Posted by Starman

The deathless biology you describe isn't taught in the Bible.

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I take it you mean that you don't interpret the Bible to mean that ALL death is the result of sin. To me, it seems obvious that "The wages of sin is death" is not necessarily the same as saying "All death is due to sin", but I have heard many Bible worshipers argue vehemently that that's what "the Bible says". So it turns out that what is "taught in the Bible" is a matter of interpretation. Why is it that so many Bible quoters resist taking any responsibility for their own interpretation and insist that no other interpretation is possible?

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Originally Posted by ordinaryguy

I take it you mean that you don't interpret the Bible to mean that ALL death is the result of sin. To me, it seems obvious that "The wages of sin is death" is not necessarily the same as saying "All death is due to sin", but I have heard many Bible worshipers argue vehemently that that's what "the Bible says". So it turns out that what is "taught in the Bible" is a matter of interpretation. Why is it that so many Bible quoters resist taking any responsibility for their own interpretation and insist that no other interpretation is possible?

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Not at all. You should instead take it that I mean that the Bible doesn't teach that concept you came up with. Neither is the Bible a book open to all and any arbitrary interpretation without regard to its inner uniity and its overall theme. Your claiming this shows deep ignorance of the very book you choose to criticize which makes discussion much less debate useless.

Also, I don't know of anyone who worships the Bible.


BTW
I do hope you are aware that its against the posting rules to criticize answers given to questions since this is not a debating forum. Debates are done at the member's forum-not here.


I don't expect EVERYONE to agree with my beliefs, as you seem to have assumed.
Nevertheless they are my beliefs and like it or not I have a right to post them.

If indeed you have a gripe with people posting beliefs that irritate you as mine evidently does-then there are several options at your disposal:

1. Take your gripe to administration
2. Ignore the posts of people who disagree with you.
3. Block people who disagree with you.

What is not an option is constant griping involving ridicule ad infinitum not for the sake of learning nor teaching but simply as a way to blow off steam. That isn't what this forum is about. Please read the rules. Furthermore, Debating about side issues throws the whole discussion off its original course. Especially when all that's really being criticized is the right of the answerer to express himself in accordance with his beliefs.

Perhaps the fly asks himself the same question.

Why did God create these humans? what a destructive and terrible lot they are!

For God so loved the mosquito he created man, a relatively hairless food source.

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Originally Posted by Starman

Not at all. You should instead take it that I mean that the Bible doesn't teach that concept you came up with.

Hey, I agreed with your interpretation. I'm just saying what I have heard many others interpret it to mean.

Neither is the Bible a book open to all and any arbitrary interpretation without regard to its inner uniity and its overall theme. Your claiming this shows deep ignorance of the very book you choose to criticize which makes discussion much less debate useless.

I didn't claim it is open to "all and any arbitrary interpretation", just that it is clearly open to more than one interpretation.

Also, I don't know of anyone who worships the Bible.

Well, I do, but I didn't accuse you of it, so don't get your back up.

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Lighten up Starman, I'm not ridiculing you or anybody else. Your thin skin is showing.

Mosquitos are meant for target practice.

Flies are meant for accuracy of paper swatting technique.

I'm really bored...

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Originally Posted by ordinaryguy

Lighten up Starman, I'm not ridiculing you or anybody else. Your thin skin is showing.

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If the answers drift too far from the original question the moderator terminates the thread.

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Originally Posted by Starman

If the answers drift too far from the original question the moderator terminates the thread.

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That would qualify as a mercy killing, I think.