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Originally Posted by Demonspeeding_2005

what makes you think 9/11 wouldn't have happened with clinton in office

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Maybe the fact that it DIDN'T happen while Clinton was in office gives us a clue. But frankly, I don't think it would have mattered who was president.

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Originally Posted by Demonspeeding_2005

and no daddy didn't help put bush in office.

you say those who think bush is doing a good job has turned a blind eye

what about old clinton and monica
your probable one of the people who thought that was ok
he lied about that at the beginning of the whole thing

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If you want to believe that daddy didn't help get Dubya elected I doubt if anything I say will change your mind.

What about Clinton and Monica? Clinton's actions with Lewinsky were shameful, but they were personal actions that had nothing to do with the presidency. Nor do they have anything to do with the quality of the job Dubya is doing.

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Originally Posted by Demonspeeding_2005

you probable want his old lady as are next president
if that happens the world is in for alot more trouble then you think

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I think Hilary would make a better president than Dubya, but that's not saying much.

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Originally Posted by Demonspeeding_2005

my opinion about the war in iraq. It needed to happen
you are probably one of those people who think the holocaust never happened
sorry but it did

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First I'm jewish. Second, why did the war in Iraq need to happen? So we could destroy their WMDs? Well there were none. So we could depose an evil dictator? We've supported evil dictators before. What right do we have to invade a sovereign nation just because we don't like its leader?

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Originally Posted by Demonspeeding_2005

how many people turn to the usa when they need help
so how can you say they have lost respect for us

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What does respect have to do with asking for help? How many countries ask for our aid then laugh at us behind our backs for giving it to them?

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Originally Posted by Demonspeeding_2005

i am proud of the way bush has run the country

demon

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If you really feel that way, there seems little point in discussing this with your further. I prefer to debate people who think reasonably and rationally.

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Originally Posted by Demonspeeding_2005

so how can you say they have lost respect for us

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I think you need to travel outside of North America to feel that. Have you been to Europe in the last couple of years?

Demon, It's very probable that you will fall for anything they tell you. It's very probable you put words in people's mouth's because you don't have much of an argument. The thing that is the most probable is that at best, you are very ill informed. But don't worry, at the rate we are going, Armagedden is very close and after it goes down, you can tell every one it did'nt happen.

Magprob

Tell me what makes you think Armageddon is very close
Where do you get this information

Scottgem

Why do you think we didn't need to do it
My philosophy about it is hit them before they hit us.

If we would have wiped them out with the first bush or even when clinton went in there in 98
See don't forget clinton tried it to

If we would have listened to the founding fathers of this country we wouldn't be having this conversation

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Originally Posted by Demonspeeding_2005

why do you think we didn't need to do it
My philosophy about it is hit them before they hit us.

if we would of wiped them out with the first bush or even when clinton went in there in 98
see don't forget clinton tried it to

if we would of listened to the founding fathers of this country we wouldn't be having this conversation

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I already answered why we didn't need to do it. The Iraq war is the first time in the history of the US where we struck the first blow. Granted Sometimes we provoked the first blow, but this was the first time we struck it.

I believe in peace not war. I do not believe in pre-emptive first strikes. Nor did our founding fathers. I supported the action in Afghanistan because that was in retaliation. The invasion of Iraq was not. The reasons Bush gave us about it have all been shown to be false.

I actually agree with you that we should have gone all the way in Desert Storm. We had some justification then. But Bush had to preserve what was a very fragile alliance. If he had gone into Baghdad, that alliance would have broken apart.

Try learning some facts about what is going on. So far all you have displayed is ignorance.

"Demonspeeding_2005 disagrees: i have been to germany, canada, and england within the last year."

Wow, I wasn't aware EMTs made that much (considering that you would be travelling from clear across the USA to boot!) and allowed such an amount of vacation time. Bravo!

What brought you to all those place within a year?

One of my brothers is stationed in germany
Another of my brothers in england
Canada just because I got bored

Emt is not my only job
I am also in secutity

Demonspeed, you ask why I think we are headed for Armageddon. Well, you can call it what you like but we are going into Iran next and then probably Syria next and with all of the nukes that are unaccounted for from the old USSR, (which, by the way, may be in the background drawing us in or at least suppling arms to these countries), there is going to be some nukes shot off before this is over. This is a serious situation that the whole world is involved in and I just don't happen think Bush is the man for the job dude! Kennedy handled Cuba and Russia quite well in his day but this is much, much, bigger and all we have is G.W.(Dubya) Bush. Oh man I am scared and I fear for my grand kids future. If you want to play cowboy with Dubya just remember one thing, when those wagons are in a circle, Dubya will be under ground... will you?

Have any of you served in the military

My feelings about it are kill them all let good sort them out

Demonspeeding 2005,

More power to you . You are an E.M.T? God bless you! I am an R.N. with 20+ yrs. Experience with trauma patients.
And also security? Oh you are so right on . How absolutely nice of you to be so helpful to our nation and to people in need. I think it's totally biased of someone to even suggest a stupid thing like the leader of our country- being, well I won't even dignify it by repeating it.

I find it amazing how these people complaing about Bush in every way... yet they do it with such disrespect! Wow, too bad if they can't overlook some of your words AND if they can't see the positive things Bush has done for our country. Oh, even though I liked Clinton- he actually backed down from retalliation after the USS Cole was hit because it was towards the end of his 2nd term.

I've survived my own 9/11 TWICE. So I hope G.W. gets Bin-Laden after all... before he leaves office! I cried for every single person that had their story put on A&E and Discovery channel & court TV, etc...

Now, I think Red China has a right to have their own nuclear weapons. This way we don't stand out as The Big Cheese by having a monopoly as such.

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Originally Posted by 31pumpkin

Demonspeeding 2005,

More power to you . You are an E.M.T? God bless you! I am an R.N. with 20+ yrs. experience with trauma patients.
And also security? Oh you are so right on . How absolutely nice of you to be so helpful to our nation and to people in need. I think it's totally biased of someone to even suggest a stupid thing like the leader of our country- being, well I won't even dignify it by repeating it.

I find it amazing how these people complaing about Bush in every way....yet they do it with such disrespect! Wow, too bad if they can't overlook some of your words AND if they can't see the positive things Bush has done for our country. Oh, even though I liked Clinton- he actually backed down from retalliation after the USS Cole was hit because it was towards the end of his 2nd term.

I've survived my own 9/11 TWICE. So I hope G.W. gets Bin-Laden after all....before he leaves office! I cried for every single person that had their story put on A&E and Discovery channel & court tv, etc......

Now, I think Red China has a right to have their own nuclear weapons. This way we don't stand out as The Big Cheese by having a monopoly as such.

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Respect has to be earned. I agree that a newly elected president deserves his country's respect out of the gate. But to keep that respect it has to be earned. Dubya has not earned it! I'm not going to repeat the reasons, it would take too long.

I would like to know what positive things Dubya has done for this country. Please name some. About the only thing I can name is the strong stance he took after 9/11 in Afghanistan. I can think of little else. Yet I can name (as I have) a large number of things he has screwed up.

I too hope Bush gets Bin Laden, but he's had more than 4 years to do it and hasn't come close. By the way, I survived THE 9/11. I was on the 50th fl of the south tower when the first plane hit. I was still in the building, in a 16th fl stairwell, when the second plane hit.

As to Red China having nuclear weapons, where have you been? Red China has been a nuclear power for years! I don't believe ANYONE should have nuclear weapons. Because this world will not survive a nuclear war.

You need to wake up to the reality of today's world.

"I too hope Bush gets Bin Laden, but he's had more than 4 years to do it and hasn't come close. By the way, I survived THE 9/11. I was on the 50th fl of the south tower when the first plane hit. I was still in the building, in a 16th fl stairwell, when the second plane hit."

Very interesting information above from the previous answer. That is amazing.
I am truly glad you were not one of the casualties of that cruel disaster. You are truly Blessed, in every sense of the word.

Thanks Fred. I have told the story on occasion, but its not something I like to speak of. I mentioned it in this case, because I feel it gives a weight of experience and background to my opinions here.

I don't consider myself "blessed". The blessing would have been if it hadn't happened at all. I can't believe that some entity chose me to live and others to die. I can't believe that an entity that could pick would have allowed the tragedy to happen in the first place.

I am not a pacifist, but neither am I a hawk. I'm a realist first and foremost. The reality to me is that war should always be a last resort. That war should be engaged in as a defense against attack.

I don't want to get Underdog and his friend Sweet Poly Purebred going again but I just wanted to comment to ScottGem that I really am glad you came out unscathed and with a strong appreciation for the art of diplomacy when it comes to anilation of an entire planet. I have, in previous posts, sensed a certain element in your posts that only comes with having "been to the gates of hell and back and now i'm not trifling" attitude. You truly understand what is at stake. I personally have no idea what it is like to have your world crashing down around your feet but I have a suspicion it isn't good. I don't want that for anyone and all I am saying is that things are heading that way really fast. When Bush went into Iraq it was not for the reason he gave us. That leads me to believe we are being lied to. With the stakes as they are, this isn't the time to be in the dark.
Also ScottGem, what do you make of all of the conspricy theroies about the Twin Towers? Why are people, lots of people saying it did'nt happen the way they told us it did?

OK
I am done with this post for now

Thanks for the nice comments Mag. I caught the history bug when I was about 8 and went to Gettysburg on vacation. I wound up getting my BA in Poli Sci (and now I'm a computer geek, go figure). So, some of my opinions go back before my WTC experience.

I'm not sure which conspiracy theories you refer to. People like a conspiracy. So such rumors will always grow around an event like that. I read, just the other day, that a great deal of what they know about the terrorists comes from luggage that didn't make it onto one of the WTC planes. Apparently Atta, the attack leader, and one other boarded a commuter plane to Boston in Portland Me. They got there only 15 minutes before the flight and checked their luggage. Because of the rush, the luggage never made it onto the flight from Logan. The FBI took possession of the 3 bags and found a lot of the info that told them who the hijackers were, what their plans were etc.

Dubya may or may not be the antichrist but he's close enough for me!:cool: :mad:

Basically I agree with everything scottgem has to say! I am glad that you can live to tell about a terrible tragedy such as "911" SO many people can't. You are right, it should have never happened. As for why we are in Iraq, I think people have their facts mixed up about why we are there. It is not to kill Bin Laden. He is somewhere getting high in a mountain top because Bush LET HIM get away. I don't think that 911 and the reason we are currently in Iraq have ANYTHING to do with one another. Hillbilly Bush and Topshooter Chaney are just doing what they were raised to do... Be ignorant men hiding behind guns, that they think make them look tough.

Is there any proof that saddam wasn't supporting osama

THe fact is, The only war that has been necessary in the last 100 years was WORLD WAR II... and That's IT! It is sad that our troops have to be put in the position of fighting for such a worthless cause. God Bless them, but it still sucks.