Ask Me Help Desk - Being held to contract

Being held to contract

I had booked an appointment with a company to come in and put together my exercise equipment. I decided not to have them come and called them the night before and left a message stating I would not need their services. Unfortunately the tech showed up at my door anyway.

The company called and left me a message stating that I should have asked about their cancellation policy and that I did not leave them enough time. They said they would be sending me a bill for a service call.

I called back and told them I would not be paying for a service call and that it was their responsibility to tell me that they had a cancellation policy.

They called again stating that I was the one responsible to ask about their policy and that they would be sending me a bill. They then stated that if I did not pay the bill that they would submit it to collections and it would affect my credit rating.

Can they legally get away with this?

Yeah... calling the night before an appointment is in fact NOT long enough notice... anyplace. Not even your Doctors office...

And its not their responsibility to point their policy out if its readily available.. EG via a written contact or on their website.

Just pay it and use it as a lesson learned.

Sorry,but I don't know of any company that doesn't have a cancellation policy. Giving notice the night before is not long enough, you will have to pay for this service call or risk your credit, and going to collections. It's easier just to pay the bill, if you don't they can also legally add interest. If they take this to court you won't win, and you'll be responsible not only for the bill, but any interest as well.

The policy is in the contract you signed. You are responsible for reading the fine print. Pay them!

Of course you are responsible, these companies often use independent contractors, not employees, these contractors are scheduled one to two days ahead, and normally have payment due, if there is any change. Once they show up to door, they get a min fee.

You should have let him do the work, once he showed up.

But they are not obligated to tell you cancelaton policy, you have obligation to ask, if you wish to cancel

It also sounds like you called after business hours, the night before, even common sense tells you that is too late.

I suggest you wait for the bill and once you get it.
File a complaint with the FTC here
http://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0341-file-complaint-ftc
Then contact your state attorney general through email explaining the situation and give them phone numbers and addresses for contact.
The cooling off rule probably won't apply for you so you should get the ball rolling early by filling a compliant at your local county attorney office for small claims court and charge them with unauthorized billing.
Keep hard copies of everything you will be asked to present them in court.
Chances are they won't even show up but if they do there is a good chance you will lose and again you could win depends on the judge, but you will win either way because you have taken part of their day away and they made no money sitting in court, no interest can be charged, no fees can be levied, nothing but the bill will be considered while in the court system.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleepingless

I suggest you wait for the bill and once you get it.
File a complaint with the FTC here
File a Complaint with the FTC | Consumer Information
Then contact your state attorney general thru email explaining the situation and give them phone numbers and addresses for contact.
The cooling off rule probably wont apply for you so you should get the ball rolling early by filling a compliant at your local county attorney office for small claims court and charge them with unauthorized billing.
Keep hard copies of everything you will be asked to present them in court.
Chances are they wont even show up but if they do there is a good chance you will lose and again you could win depends on the judge, but you will win either way because you have taken part of their day away and they made no money sitting in court, no interest can be charged, no fees can be levied, nothing but the bill will be considered while in the court system.

You really think it's worth fighting this? Ridiculous. It's a waste of everyone's time to fight it.

"You will win either way because you have taken part of their day away"... That's just silly. Part of who's day? Some company rep that gets paid whether he's at the office or not?

Poor advice really.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleepingless

I suggest you wait for the bill and once you get it.
File a complaint with the FTC here

So your advice is that the OP should extract a level of revenge by attempting to drag the company into court for his mistake?

First, it is highly unlikely the FTC will listen to such a complaint. It is even more unlikely that state AG will waste their time pursuing it. And even if it does get to a hearing, it's the OP who will have wasted time having to take time off from work. The company will have sent someone that won't interfere with their ability to make money.

This is BAD advice In my opinion

Quote:

Originally Posted by odinn7

You really think it's worth fighting this? Ridiculous. It's a waste of everyone's time to fight it.

"You will win either way because you have taken part of their day away"....That's just silly. Part of who's day? Some company rep that gets paid whether he's at the office or not?

Poor advice really.

If I go out to someone's house to exact a service for them and they don't want it they still should pay me for showing up, maybe my expenses but not the whole service call no. I would never exact such a thing on one of my customers because I want to keep them. By the way a company rep cannot show up in court and represent the company only the owner can do such a thing!

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleepingless

If I go out to someones house to exact a service for them and they don't want it they still should pay me for showing up, maybe my expenses but not the whole service call no. I would never exact such a thing on one of my customers because I want to keep them. By the way a company rep cannot show up in court and represent the company only the owner can do such a thing!

You're a lawyer?

A company rep sure can show up for something like this. The company did nothing wrong. All companies that do installations and such have a certain call off period whether it's 24 hours or whatever... it's up to the consumer to understand that. The OP having made a mistake by calling this off the night before, when the company was closed, is not the fault of the company. Their tech was scheduled to show and did... service call fee... plain and simple.

So that's worth reporting to the FTC and taking time off work to fight in court?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottGem

So your advice is that the OP should extract a level of revenge by attempting to drag the company into court for his mistake?

First, it is highly unlikely the FTC will listen to such a complaint. It is even more unlikely that state AG will waste their time pursuing it. And even if it does get to a hearing, its the OP who will have wasted time having to take time off from work. The company will have sent someone that won't interfere with their ability to make money.

This is BAD advice IMHO

Revenge is the only option available, the OP is going to pay, I don't think I would give them a free payday, If you have money to give away why don't you pay the bill. The state AG must at minimum file a brief, a company rep cannot sit for the company only an owner can do this. If the company sent a rep the billing would be dismissed and the company would be charged with unauthorized billing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by odinn7

You're a lawyer?

A company rep sure can show up for something like this. The company did nothing wrong. All companies that do installations and such have a certain call off period whether it's 24 hours or whatever....it's up to the consumer to understand that. The OP having made a mistake by calling this off the night before, when the company was closed, is not the fault of the company. Their tech was scheduled to show and did....service call fee...plain and simple.

So that's worth reporting to the FTC and taking time off work to fight in court?

I am and no they didn't and yes the OP will lose but only if the owner shows furthermore the OP will exact a level playing field and more than likely win the argument through default.

Revenge is the only option... that's ludicrous. Revenge for what? For the OP not calling off in time? For their tech to show up at the OPs door? For them to follow company procedure? Revenge... you talk like a child.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleepingless

If you have money to give away why dont you pay the bill.

I don't see where anyone in this thread said we had money to give away... and to even post that sentence as a point of argument makes no sense whatsoever.

Not to mention they (the person refusing to pay a legit bill) is going to incure extra fees, and charges... and have a collection on their credit history, If you have that on your credit history no real bank is going to loan you ANY money... and a bad credit negatively effects even what you pay for insurance...

The OP needs to suck it up and pay it because nothing good for them will result if they don't. Consider it an expensive lesson..

And incidentally a company rep CAN represent the company in court as they do it all the time... they are granted that authority by the company. They won't be doing it on their own initiative.

Quote:

Originally Posted by smoothy

And incidently a company rep CAN represent the company in court as they do it all the time....they are granted that authority by the company. They won't be doing it on their own initiative.

Thank you... Apparently our "lawyer" friend isn't aware of this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by odinn7

Revenge is the only option....that's ludicrous. Revenge for what? For the OP not calling off in time? For their tech to show up at the OPs door? For them to follow company procedure? Revenge....you talk like a child.

I don't see where anyone in this thread said we had money to give away....and to even post that sentence as a point of argument makes no sense whatsoever.

The OP did call them this is the point of concern. The first thing I do every morning is check the machine. Finalize my schedule and only then does my day begin, fact is if this company actually focused on the service they provide the problem would have never happened. Furthermore the comment of free money IE your free money was a point that should have concreted the message that this is exactly what this company expects now FREE money and I would not give it to them not freely anyway.

The OP called them the night before, when they were closed... their policy probably states 24 hours minimum as I am sure they are like other install companies that send out sub-contractors... but then, you already know all this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleepingless

The OP did call them this is the point of concern. The first thing I do each and every morning is check the machine. Finalize my schedule and only then does my day begin, fact is if this company actually focused on the service they provide the problem would have never happened. Furthermore the comment of free money IE your free money was a point that should have concreted the message that this is exactly what this company expects now FREE money and I would not give it to them not freely anyway.

THey will win a case against someone using your tactics... and not only that.. they will get a Judgement.. and a writ of garnishment to go after your accounts to satisfy the debt... which by this time will inlude late fees.. interest... and legal fees... and be far higher than the oriiginal bill... and they can collect this debt many, many years from now... and for what?

Quote:

Originally Posted by smoothy

Not to mention they (the person refusing to pay a legit bill) is going to incure extra fees, and charges...and have a collection on their credit history, If you have that on your credit history no real bank is going to loan you ANY money....and a bad credit negatively effects even what you pay for insurance....

The OP needs to suck it up and pay it because nothing good for them will result if they don't. Consider it an expensive lesson..

And incidently a company rep CAN represent the company in court as they do it all the time....they are granted that authority by the company. They won't be doing it on their own initiative.

Once in the system no extra fees can be attached. This is a small claims matter, the default of ownership applies if a rep is sent the case is dismissed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by odinn7

The OP called them the night before, when they were closed....their policy probably states 24 hours minimum as I am sure they are like other install companies that send out sub-contractors....but then, you already know all this.

True very true but where is the service they propose to exact like I said an expense to drive there and maybe only maybe a time payment but a full service call for being told I no longer need you. Nonsense

Really... you believe that? You actually think the CEO of every company involved in any lawsuit spends their days in court of every little suit they deal with? No they don't they send someone else to represent the company.

There was a legal contract... the customer failed to properly provide notice to cancel in the prescribed time frame... the Company wins this slam dunk.

Quote:

Originally Posted by smoothy

THey will win a case against someone using your tactics...and not only that..they will get a Judgement..and a writ of garnishment to go after your accounts to satisfy the debt...which by this time will inlude late fees.., interest...and legal fees....and be far higher than the oriiginal bill.....and they can collect this debt many, many years from now.....and for what?

The OP can pay at the stand the same amount the OP will pay now, No legal fees are allowed in small claims they are not allowed to produce a lawyer nor any lawyer doctrine, they cannot increase or attach interest to the bill the whole amount is set in stone the minute the case is brought before the local county attorney.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleepingless

The OP can pay at the stand the exact same amount the OP will pay now, No legal fees are allowed in small claims they are not allowed to produce a lawyer nor any lawyer doctrine, they cannot increase or attach interest to the bill the whole amount is set in stone the minute the case is brought before the local county attorney.

Really... care to quote legal precident to back that claim up... because they are ALWAYS responsible for late fees and interest due on a debt they failed to pay... they will never see a bill as low as the one that has not yet become deliquent.

Collections companies around the world make their living off those additional charges.

Quote:

Originally Posted by smoothy

Really...you believe that? You actually think the CEO of every company involved in any lawsuit spends their days in court of every little suit they deal with? No they don't they send someone else to represent the company.

There was a legal contract...the customer failed to properly provide notice to cancel in the prescribed time frame.....the Company wins this slam dunk.

First of all a CEO is a company rep they would have to be a board member to be considered for ownership and then a judge can strike that because all board members are not present thus full ownership is not available. Lawsuit? This is a small claims matter no lawyers, no representatives are allowed in small claims court period. I have already said the OP will lose but the OP will exact a level of return payment on the free money if and only if the company shows up to get it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleepingless

First of all a CEO is a company rep they would have to be a board member to be considered for ownership and then a judge can strike that because all board members are not present thus full ownership is not available. Lawsuit? this is a small claims matter no lawyers, no representatives are allowed in small claims court period. I have already said the OP will lose but the OP will exact a level of return payment on the free money if and only if the company shows up to get it.

Where did you attend law school? How much experience do you have in court... what is the legal precident to what you are claiming?

Quote:

Originally Posted by smoothy

Really...care to quote legal precident to back that claim up...because they are ALWAYS responsible for late fees and intrest due on a debt they failed to pay...they will never see a bill as low as the one that has not yet become deliquent.

Collections companies around the world make their living off those additional charges.

You must understand there is no appeals there are no lawyers and this will be entirely based on civilian law (Common law) Legal precedence does not apply the whole of the judgement relies on the presiding judge. The bill however is the bill which is what the judgement precedes on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by smoothy

Where did you attend law school? How much experience do you have in court....what is the legal precident to what you are claiming?

University of Kentucky

Quote:

Originally Posted by smoothy

Where did you attend law school? How much experience do you have in court....what is the legal precident to what you are claiming?

The last time was 2003 as an expert, I don't represent I am to old, my function is findings and reference.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleepingless

You must understand there is no appeals their are no lawyers and this will be entirely based on civilian law (Common law) Legal precedence does not apply the whole of the judgement relies on the presiding judge. The bill however is the bill which is what the judgement precedes on.

You are wrong... about that... al lof it. Lawyers or councel not being allowed is not a universal truth for one.

If there is no penalty... why would anyone pay a bill ever... just fight them... if you lose there is no penalty... or extra charges?

Tell you what... are you going to pay the OP's debt if they follow your advice and lose.. and end up with a far larger bill?

You still haven't quoted any case law or legal precidents or codes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by smoothy

You are wrong.....about that......al lof it.

In fact Lawyers ARE allowed in some small claims courts....and all of the people sueing for upaid bills are entitled to late fees and intrest due....and you can appeal most of them.....it happens all the time.

If there is no penalty....why would anyone pay a bill ever....just fight them...if you lose there is no penalty.....or extra charges?

Without a "mistake of law" no state in the US will allow you to appeal and if you do find one you will still lose I would bet my salary on this. If both parties agree to allow reps to present the case then yes lawyers can enter the fray. This is not the case for the OP as the person should know they will lose thus they would NOT agree to such a thing.

First we take pride in the quality and accuracy of the advice we give here. Your advice has been neither quality nor accurate.

Small claims courts have different rules in different jurisdictions. But I've never seen a small claims court that required the company owner to show. And definitely not any level of civil court. You have no idea whether the company the OP is involved with is a corporation or what its structure. Many companies don't have "owners" they have shareholders. So right there, your advice is wrong.

While you are correct that once a suit is filed, the amount may be frozen, but that doesn't mean that the company can't add fees and costs to the amount they are suing for. So you are wrong there.

And whether the state AG has to open a file for the complaint or not, they still will not prosecute. So all that would happen here is the OP would likely incur additional costs, and have to spend time to appear in court.

Again, not only did you give bad advice, but you compounded it by trying to defend this advice with more inaccuracies.