[nostradamus]

In our justice system, isn't a defendant presumed, to be Innocent, by the jury, until a Unamious verdict of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, is reached ?

[adam_89]

Well, I know it had always been guilty until proven innocent but now I believe it has changed around. I think it is innocent until proven guilty but don't expect police to follow that

[excon]

Hello n:

Sure. But, if that didn't happen, tell us about it.

excon

[ScottGem]

Yes, US law gives a person a presumption of innocence until proven guilty in a court of law.

Not all trials are done before a jury however.

Is there a reason you are aksing?

[ScottGem]

Well, i know it had always been guilty until proven innocent but now i believe it has changed around. i think it is innocent until proven guilty but don't expect police to follow that

Are you in the US? Because in the US it has always been innocent until prove guilty.

[adam_89]

Are you in the US? Because in the US it has always been innocent until prove guilty.

Ya know, you seem like a genius. I will give you that much, but why do you have to be such a smart a** all the time? You could have said sorry adam, you are wrong, it has always been like that. Instead of trying to make me out to be an idiot. I was just wondering why, I'm not trying to start an argument.

[excon]

Hello adam:

Come on, Dude. I'M the smarta$$ here. I didn't see ANYTHING in Scotts answer that put you down.

excon

[adam_89]

Hello adam:

Come on, Dude. I'M the smarta$$ here. I didn't see ANYTHING in Scotts answer that put you down.

excon

Hello. You don't see anything wrong with it? It could have been a little more nicely put like I said. That's all I was saying. I may have took it wrong.

[nostradamus]

Yes, US law gives a person a presumption of innocence until proven guilty in a court of law.

Not all trials are done before a jury however.

Is there a reason you are aksing?

I thought that if all men are created Equal, that then only an Equal can judge me, in a Self government that We the People have agreed to give our collective authority for ? What would be the grounds for a trial other than by jury ?

[JudyKayTee]

I thought that if all men are created Equal, that then only an Equal can judge me, in a Self government that We the People have agreed to give our collective authority for ? What would be the grounds for a trial other than by jury ?

You can ask for a non-jury trial in some cases.

I think this is a topic for one of the political debate boards - this is not a criminal law question.

[nostradamus]

You can ask for a non-jury trial in some cases.

I think this is a topic for one of the political debate boards - this is not a criminal law question.

I'm not ARGUING, which comprises a debate, I'm asking a question, not making ba statement, in response to what was stated ! As per your answer, Exactly what cases would you permit me a non jury trial, if I wanted one ? Oh, and doesn't the human plaintif have a say as to a trial without a jury ? If the plaintif has to prove the charges they made against Innocent me, are Facts beyond a reasonable doubt, to reach a Unamious verdict, don't thy also have a say as to approving a trial without a jury ?

[JudyKayTee]

I'm not ARGUING, which comprises a debate, I'm asking a question, not making ba statement, in response to what was stated ! As per your answer, Exactly what cases would you permit me a non jury trial, if i wanted one ? Oh, and doesn't the human plaintif have a say as to a trial without a jury ? If the plaintif has to prove the charges they made against Innocent me, are Facts beyond a reasonable doubt, to reach a Unamious verdict, don't thy also have a say as to approving a trial without a jury ?

Your question was: "In our justice system, isn't a defendant presumed, to be Innocent, by the jury, until a Unamious verdict of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, is reached ?"
It was answered.


As far as this question is concerned a Waiver of Trial by Jury (or something similar according to State) is filed. Why? That depends on the charge and the Attorney. I've seen it for heinous crimes; crimes when mental competency is questioned and there is a concern that a jury will not understand the mental "defect;" crimes where there are issues of law which might be beyond the education or understanding of a jury.

(You do notice this thread was moved to a discussion board because there is no specific legal question.)

[nostradamus]

Your question was: "In our justice system, isn't a defendant presumed, to be Innocent, by the jury, until a Unamious verdict of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, is reached ?"
It was answered.


As far as this question is concerned a Waiver of Trial by Jury (or something similar according to State) is filed. Why? That depends on the charge and the Attorney. I've seen it for heinous crimes; crimes when mental competency is questioned and there is a concern that a jury will not understand the mental "defect;" crimes where there are issues of law which might be beyond the education or understanding of a jury.

(You do notice this thread was moved to a discussion board because there is no specific legal question.)

Where and how do I get to the discussion board ?

[JudyKayTee]

Where and how do I get to the discussion board ?

You're on it now. How did you get here?

[ScottGem]

Apparently someone moved the thread to a discussion board.

The point is that the defendant in a case has the right to request a non jury trial. ONLY the defendant can make that choice.

In a criminal trial the plaintiff is the state not an indidividual. And the presumption of innocence applies only to criminal trials.

In a civil trial non-jury trials are more commonplace because the parties may feel they want to be judged on the law, not the emotions that a jury tends to bring.

In criminal trials, jury trials are much more common, but again the defendant has the choice.

An aside to adam. One of the drawbacks of communication like this is it lacks the visuall and auditory cues that make up 70% of communications. I was not trying to put you down. If I was, I could have have been much more sarcastic, because the presumption of innocence is one of the basic foundations of the US judicial system and has been since before the founding fathers drafted the Constitution.

[nostradamus]

Where and how do I get to the discussion board ?

My original question is a lawful/legal question, which sets up the way a trial is handled. In the UCMJ a Human is Guilty and they have to prove they are innocent of Charges, why? Because they don't have Sovereign Status when they are in the Military can be the only answer, likewise they don't get a jury of their peers which can ONLY be in Self government for whom the authority for government is from!! Somebody said, in reply, that a jury trial is NOT always given, and I asked how can that be ? Then they concluded that I haven't asked a legal question?? And this should become a political dsicussion!! Are We the People the Sovereigns or are the civil servant/government workers the Sovereigns? I always thought that the constitution gets its authority from the Sovereign People and they in turn delegated it, in written form, called the Constitution and that it is the Supreme law of the land, yes or no ? If a Unamious verdict o guilt must be reached in a trial, then where does a Hung jury come in, to be tried again ? If a defendant is NOT found, beyond a reasonable doubt, to be guilty, then their presumption is proven as to Innocense, NO ?

[JudyKayTee]

My original question is a lawful/legal question, which sets up the way a trial is handled. In the UCMJ a Human is Guilty and they have to prove they are innocent of Charges, why? Because they don't have Sovereign Status when they are in the Military can be the only answer, likewise they don't get a jury of their peers which can ONLY be in Self government for whom the authority for government is from !!!! Somebody said, in reply, that a jury trial is NOT always given, and I asked how can that be ? then they concluded that I haven't asked a legal question ??? And this should become a political dsicussion !!!Are We the People the Sovereigns or are the civil servant/government workers the Sovereigns? I always thought that the constitution gets its authority from the Sovereign People and they in turn delegated it, in written form, called the Constitution and that it is the Supreme law of the land, yes or no ? If a Unamious verdict o guilt must be reached in a trial, then where does a Hung jury come in, to be tried again ? If a defendant is NOT found, beyond a reasonable doubt, to be guilty, then their presumption is proven as to Innocense, NO ?

Arguing isn't going to change anything. Your original legal question was answered. You then went on to argue3 whatever it is you're arguing and also provided no additional information.

Why don't you post the exact circumstances and jurisdiction and then someone can determine whether you are asking a specific legal question or wish to argue whether "we" are or are not "the people the sovereigns" or not. Why don't you tell us what your concerns are and see if anyone can answer them.

Read your question - once again, it's an argument, not a statement of fact.

[nostradamus]

Arguing isn't going to change anything. Your original legal question was answered. You then went on to argue3 whatever it is you're arguing and also provided no additional information.

Why don't you post the exact circumstances and jurisdiction and then someone can determine whether you are asking a specific legal question or wish to argue whether "we" are or are not "the people the sovereigns" or not. Why don't you tell us what your concerns are and see if anyone can answer them.

Read your question - once again, it's an argument, not a statement of fact.

You evidently are a lawyer/attorney, which aren't even mentioned in the Constitution, so what could you know about Common Law ? You guys have a great time twisting the law to make it seem like somebody needs you to talk for them!! With a hung jury, something you guys can't explain, that if you are presummed Innocent and it can not be proven otherwise, then there is reason for another trial!! Go look at the original question !

[JudyKayTee]

You evidently are a lawyer/attorney, which aren't even mentioned in the Constitution, so what could you know about Common Law ? You guys have a great time twisting the law to make it seem like somebody needs you to talk for them !!!! With a hung jury, something you guys can't explain, that if you are presummed Innocent and it can not be proven otherwise, then there is reason for another trial !!!!! Go look at the original question !

The original question was: "In our justice system, isn't a defendant presumed, to be Innocent, by the jury, until a Unamious verdict of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, is reached ?"

The answer is, yes.

I have no idea what Attorneys being mentioned/not mentioned as a profession in the Constitution has to do with anything.

Asked and answered.

Are you going to post whatever your specific situation is so some other people can give some advice?

[Alty]

::sniff, sniff:: I smell a troll. :(