Here's an interesting article from today's New York Times Magazine about psychological research on wisdom, and whether it has anything to do with age. One of the methodologies that has been developed to study it is to describe a situation and ask the respondent to give advice or comment on how to approach the implied choices--quite a bit like what goes on here at AMHD. Any reactions?

A few highlights to whet your appetite:

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The results suggest that older people on average are more even-keeled and resilient emotionally. “Younger people tend to be either positive or negative at any given point in their daily life,” Carstensen says, “but older people are more likely to experience mixed emotions, happiness and a touch of sadness at the same time. Having mixed emotions helps to regulate emotional states better than extremes of emotion. There’s a lot of loss associated with aging, and humans are the only species that recognizes that time eventually runs out. That influences the motivation to savor the day-to-day experiences you have, it allows you to be more positive. Appreciating the fragility of life helps you savor it.”

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people who didn’t regulate their emotions well as adults and were relatively more negative at the start of the study “were more likely to be dead” 10 years later, independent of their health status at the beginning of the experiment.

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The Berlin group reported that the roots of wisdom can be traced, in some cases, to adolescence. Jacqui Smith points out that many of the people in the Berlin Aging Study survived two world wars and a global depression; the elderly people who scored high on Monika Ardelt’s wisdom scale also reported considerable hardship earlier in their lives.

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Wisdom: They are saying it is a mystery but if you believe in the concept of young souls and old souls and incarnation, there is no mystery. Perhaps it’s like the bees mentioned in the article, it is past on. Not from father to son but from one incarnation to another. Maybe, like love, we take it with us.

The ‘stress inoculation’ doesn’t really fit. Not everyone who had a rough childhood grows up to be wise, they are more likely to grow up to become criminals. I don’t think age brings wisdom either. I have known some very wise kids and some real cranky old people.

I have often been told I am wise. Even when I was quite young, I was told that I had an old head on my shoulders. Even heard the expression ‘an old soul’ being used. I am not well educated but I have always enjoyed reading. My childhood was rough and I hated school. I was a quiet and withdrawn teenager, and felt out of step with others my age. I don't feel very wise and I'm often shocked and pleased at other people's positive reaction to my suggestions.

I think unless these people are prepared to look into the metaphysical (beyond the physical) aspects of wisdom and enlightenment, it will remain a mystery to them.

Interesting article. This guy Sternberg says he believes "the cultivation of wisdom is essential to the future of society." Why? As far as I could see it wasn't explained in the article. We have so many different cultures that the test questions need to be rewritten to properly assess and rate individual wisdom within each culture to be even remotely accurate.

I believe there is so much that has to be taken into consideration to truly be able to measure and define wisdom, that the researchers have set about an impossible task for themselves. And, what would the result be if we ever do manage to do that? How is it beneficial? What will the implications to society be? I personally think it will create a need or desire to pigeonhole people. I can't imagine, in the end, that it would be very good for society as a whole. It would only be helpful in a communist state to know that information. What a terrible blow to a person's ego to be told that, after taking a test, they really don't have the chops to be whatever they desire to be, because they lack a certain amount of wisdom necessary to perform the job. Sheesh. The only thing I can think of that it might serve any useful purpose is to include some of the questions in with others as part of a career evalution test, to round out the test a bit more. Can anyone else think of what benefits to society this might bring? Am I missing something here? Please let me know if I am. Do you think the costs associated with all of these studies are worth it?

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Originally Posted by RubyPitbull

What a terrible blow to a person's ego to be told that, after taking a test, they really don't have the chops to be whatever they desire to be, because they lack a certain amount of wisdom necessary to perform the job. Sheesh.

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There was a link on the story page to a test that one of the profiled researchers had devised, so I took it. I scored 3.4 which was "moderately wise". Most of the questions were answered on a five-point "agree/disagree" type scale. Mostly I ended up checkiing the middle, neutral, "it depends" option, which seems wiser to me, but apparently that's not how it's scored.

As to why academic psychologists would want to study it, apparently not many do, which is why it's news. I found it interesting that the lady who pioneered the field gave it up for clinical practice.

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Originally Posted by bluerose

The ‘stress inoculation’ doesn’t really fit. Not everyone who had a rough childhood grows up to be wise, they are more likely to grow up to become criminals. I don’t think age brings wisdom either. I have known some very wise kids and some real cranky old people.

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Ain't it the truth! The interesting question to me is why do some people become wise through adversity while others become angry and bitter? Your "old soul" hypothesis is hard to "operationalize" and test empirically, so the academics probably won't be in any hurry to pursue it.

Sorry, I didn't click on the links. The article was long and I have some stuff to do today. I will take a closer look later. But, in my opinion, there are too many academics doing this study if you only scored a 3.4. In my opinion, you are one of the wisest people I have come across here. So, obviously there are flaws in this study and they have a lot of tweaking and adjusting to do. The fact that the woman who pioneered it and gave it up to be in a clinical practice, tells me that any more money being thrown into this study, is a waste.

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Originally Posted by ordinaryguy

Ain't it the truth! The interesting question to me is why do some people become wise through adversity while others become angry and bitter? Your "old soul" hypothesis is hard to "operationalize" and test empirically, so the academics probably won't be in any hurry to pursue it.

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I think it really has to do with a combination of our hard wiring and how we are taught. Although we each have our own specific past history, it has always struck me that there are some people who just are not capable of or, have a hard time, learning from their mistakes. Hard wiring. Others remain angry or bitter from an experience because they were never taught the proper coping techniques or just aren't capable of moving past it. I think there are some basic differences in brain functionality. If you look at someone like Jeffrey Dahmer or any of the infamous serial killers in our history, there was a disconnect somewhere. There was a lack of compassion for others. Was this a result of an abnormality in the hardwiring of the brain at birth, or a product of their upbringing. I think it is a combination of both. So, with wisdom, I feel it needs to be viewed in the same way.

Here is my score.
Personally I think the test is rubbish.
I have loads of wisdom!!! lol

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q134/asdat/001.jpg

I did take the test before I posted. I ain't tellin'. Heehee

Oh, come on, tell us your score. Lol

I like you both and I am not going to give any credence to a test that I feel is inherently flawed.

To some extent, see running for the president of US, one has to be at least 35.:)

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Originally Posted by bluerose

Wisdom: They are saying it is a mystery but if you believe in the concept of young souls and old souls and incarnation, there is no mystery. Perhaps it’s like the bees mentioned in the article, it is past on. Not from father to son but from one incarnation to another. Maybe, like love, we take it with us.

The ‘stress inoculation’ doesn’t really fit. Not everyone who had a rough childhood grows up to be wise, they are more likely to grow up to become criminals. I don’t think age brings wisdom either. I have known some very wise kids and some real cranky old people.

I have often been told I am wise. Even when I was quite young, I was told that I had an old head on my shoulders. Even heard the expression ‘an old soul’ being used. I am not well educated but I have always enjoyed reading. My childhood was rough and I hated school. I was a quiet and withdrawn teenager, and felt out of step with others my age. I don't feel very wise and I'm often shocked and pleased at other people's positive reaction to my suggestions.

I think unless these people are prepared to look into the metaphysical (beyond the physical) aspects of wisdom and enlightenment, it will remain a mystery to them.

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I second on the part about you being wise.
I myself love listening to older wiser people. And I steer towards them because many of the people my age (that I have known) are very self centered. I have a hard time with that especially. I have met some very wise kids and younger people as well! I love the fact that my husbands grandma still puts money in her socks and she never has anything bad to say about anyone, and if she did, she wouldn't say it out loud! Ha, I am looking to be like her I suppose! Wiser and age have a little something to do with each other in my opinion because there are things they have experienced that younger people just haven't gone through yet. It doesn't mean you can't be wise while young, you will just be even more wise when you are old! Hmph, I guess I did have something to say on this thread. Thanks I liked reading it all! Good job Cowboy!

An older acquaintance of mine once said, "There are some things you just can't know without living a long time." Might be true, I don't know because I'm only 61, and it doesn't seem like I've lived very long at all.

I think in a lot of cases it is true. Although there are some kids that have been through things I could only imagine going through... (good and bad)
I have a feeling you are wiser Cowboy, and I like reading all of your posts, almost all, at least the ones I can understand if the words aren't to stimulating! LOL

OG, at least you are a wise man. As far as I know:)

I agree with Ruby
"I believe there is so much that has to be taken into consideration to truly be able to measure and define wisdom, that the researchers have set about an impossible task for themselves."

and Start,
"I myself love listening to older wiser people. And I steer towards them because many of the people my age (that i have known) are very self centered."

Age has nothing much to do with wisdom,there are some people I know who gets cheated by friends and acquiantances alike most of the time and they still believe they will not do it the next time.(Maybe he is right and maybe I am a cynic)

And I know youngsters,but quite few who seems "wise beyond their years", who make responsible choices regarding life in general.

That being said I do think older people are mellowed because of their life experiences,with children and grandchildren growing up,many have had bad and good times as they age.
Some become softer and resigned with life while others turn bitter and harsh.

I hope to be among the wise ones as I age especially if/when I get to become a grandma.I always thought about being the grandma all kids turn to in need,for love and advise.
I like grandmas who are sometimes closer to children than their own mothers in some ways,a grandma who teaches children how important their parents are and how much they love them even when they are being punished,I like grandmas who help their grandchildren become the best they can be. Grandpas too.

And I cannot say if I am wise or not,but many who do not know me personally but hear me talk or read what I write think that I am 10 or so years older than my real age,which is just 26;).

P.S.Does wisdom tooth have anything to do with it?;)

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Originally Posted by firmbeliever

I do think older people are mellowed because of their life experiences,with children and grandchildren growing up,many have had bad and good times as they age.
Some become softer and resigned with life while others turn bitter and harsh.

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To me, this is the interesting thing. Especially how and when the choice gets made about which way to go with it. I don't know that I've ever known a person who was cheerful and optimistic at 40 to become angry and bitter at 70. I suppose it happens, but usually it seems like people just continue the trajectory they set up in middle age. They just get better at displaying and communicating their essence. I saw a lady pushing a cart in Wal-Mart yesterday whose face had obviously been molded by years of practice into a permanent frown. I got out of her way.

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Originally Posted by ordinaryguy

..... I saw a lady pushing a cart in Wal-Mart yesterday whose face had obviously been molded by years of practice into a permanent frown. I got out of her way.

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About the frown part, I know many a kind/happy old lady who looks they are always sad and angry or fed up, I think this has more to do with sagging facial features than with the actual character of the person.:)

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Originally Posted by firmbeliever

About the frown part, I know many a kind/happy old lady who looks they are always sad and angry or fed up, I think this has more to do with sagging facial features than with the actual character of the person.:)

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It's possible, I guess, but it was a risk I wasn't willing to take. Something about the eyes.

But I do agree that some old people are more blunt and have a sort of courage to say certain things right up front than most,it might be that they feel they have little to lose by being honest.
They may bluntly dissect your character in front of strangers if he/she thinks you did wrong,but they can be overly loving too and they do not mind discussing their grandchildrens childhood habits even if they are above their 20's.

I agree with firmbeliever.

When I was a child my mom used to say; "each line on their faces is an experience they have had; a pain or a joy"

I remember as a child when I was with my Mom seeing a very old woman that appeared angry to me because of her "frowns." When Mom spoke to her, the lady's face lite up and her eyes sparkled. Amazingly my opinion of her changed.

- Stringer