Ask Me Help Desk - Pastafarians...

Pastafarians...

Man gains the rights to wear spaghetti strainer on his head in driver license photo.

He claims it is religious headgear, and it is now recognized as such by Austrian authorities. Pastafarianism, I just learned, is a dogma-rejecting dogma that worships the Flying Spaghetti Monster (the deity of a branch of Atheists).

Please, my fellow AMHDers who are Atheist (and anyone else who wants to comment), tell me that you find this to be as ridiculous and damaging to the logic-based and science-minded Atheist community as I do. Surely recognizing Pastafarianism as a national religion cannot lead to any good in the whole "Atheism isn't a religion" argument?

I understand it's supposed to be a satire, or a mockery, of dogma-based religions. But what I see are fools making a mockery of themselves.

Comments?

(PS-I wanted to put this in member discussions, but the "Forum Community" is acting buggy and I can't select any categories because they won't populate... can someone place this in a discussion forum please?)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._Appendage.jpg

Flying Spaghetti Monster - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ummm... wow. Yea I am not Atheist, but that is making a mockery of things for sure. I think that it's being silly and not taking how people feel seriously. It's like saying being an Atheist is so silly, look how far we can take it.

The Flying Spaghetti Monster watches over us - all of us - and he loves you all.

But to answer your question SA: it is obvious these people are not serious but it raises the awareness of the effect that religious people sometimes have on laws that affect all of society - and THEY are very serious.

I agree that imposing religion into legislation is dangerous, but I hardly agree that it is right or wise to fight fire with fire-as I would call this.

For example, I protest homophobic laws that prohibit tax-paying, adult citizens (who happen to be gay) from gaining legal protections from the government as a united couple. I (or rather, those movers and shakers with whom I sympathize) don't try to manipulate the law in the same way the homophobes do, however. I wouldn't support a movement to illegalize other activities "dangerous" to the institution of marriage... say divorce, affairs or loveless marriage. That would be further restricting the rights of citizens and allowing legislation to spin out of control-inviting more ridiculous movements.

Fighting for, and winning, the right to wear a spaghetti strainer in a government issued ID may have raised awareness (we'll see about that)... but until the movement makes any real strides to improve the real dangers of religious input on legislation, I will think the movement is irresponsible and misguided.

I would like to know though what offends people about religious head gear in ID? Are women allowed to wear full Burqua in ID? As far as I know, the answer is no. Does any religious head gear obscure the face for identification purposes?

I don't think religious people should have to take off their kippah or hijab or whatever else unless it obscures the face. No more than I think it's necessary for people to take off glasses or hats. But, then, I'm not a legislator or law enforcement professional. I'm merely someone who likes to see a little tolerance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curlyben

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._Appendage.jpg

Flying Spaghetti Monster - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Wow, that dude has a small penis!

It's a joke. I don't get the problem?

Quote:

Originally Posted by J_9

Wow, that dude has a small penis!

Yea but did you see the size of the other guy's noodle?

I guess it would be nice to meet a flying spaghetti monster; he would be fun to play with.

Tick

Quote:

Originally Posted by shazamataz

It's a joke. I don't get the problem?

It's establishing a new religion in Austria. Maybe I don't have the same sense of humor when it comes to that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by southamerica

It's establishing a new religion in Austria.

So, what's wrong with that? Ever heard of Scientology?

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

So, what's wrong with that?

It doesn't affront me any... I'm not a Pastafarian :)

I'm just confused by the motives. Is it a joke? Is it trying to raise awareness?

And my possibly (definitely) elementary skills of foresight see a group of people actually latching onto the FSM - maybe as a way to share Atheist ideas, maybe it turns into a brotherhood, a manipulative figurehead takes over, and then it turns into something totally out of control. 50 to 100 years down the road, people are associating FSM with this new dogma, and not a joke or parody intended to raise awareness.

It's not like that hasn't happened before to things that were once well-guided and based in something reasonable. Look at what happened when Glenn Beck took over constitutionalism!

I brought this up to my boyfriend last night and he is of the same opinion many people here at AMHD are. I think I just need to accept that this rubs me the wrong way (it just does, I can't help it!) but most people don't see it as a big deal. It happens and that's okay. Nada que hacer!

What you described has happened to mostly all religious denominations. I really don't care if 200 new religions pop up... as long as they mean well as opposed to breeding terrorism and hatred. The FSM types are a pretty easy going bunch as evidenced by their "Eight I'd Really Rather You Didn'ts" commandments:

The Eight I'd Really Rather You Didn'ts | The FSM Consortium

Quote:

Originally Posted by southamerica

I'm just confused by the motives. Is it a joke? Is it trying to raise awareness?

Its Trolling

Quote:

And my possibly (definitely) elementary skills of foresight see a group of people actually latching onto the FSM - maybe as a way to share Atheist ideas, maybe it turns into a brotherhood, a manipulative figurehead takes over, and then it turns into something totally out of control. 50 to 100 years down the road, people are associating FSM with this new dogma, and not a joke or parody intended to raise awareness.

Wait are we talking about the Pope or the Spaghetti Monster?

Quote:

Originally Posted by shazamataz

Wait are we talking about the Pope or the Spaghetti Monster?

+1 for you. :)

It takes more than half a decade to create dogmas, zealots, and violence.

I have not once insulted Atheists, I'm expressing confusion at their motives right now and in this instance. My knowledge of crazy people in this world doesn't lead me to believe a recognized FSM religion will lead where Atheists that I know would want.

Pope=began 30 AD (almost 2000 years ago)

Spaghetti Monster=began 6 years ago

Why bring up the pope? I hope it isn't in an effort to anger or otherwise upset me. I am not Catholic, nor do I follow any organized religion (now including Pastafarianism). If you think I don't understand the dangers in religion-especially those of antiquity-and their influences today, then you are very mistaken. I've already said, in several posts on this thread, what I feel about religious influence. It's something I agree with Atheists on, hence my confusion in this matter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

The Eight I'd Really Rather You Didn'ts | The FSM Consortium

Haha That was a good laugh... I may just convert...

Quote:

Originally Posted by southamerica

It takes more than half a decade to create dogmas, zealots, and violence.

I have not once insulted Atheists, I'm expressing confusion at their motives right now and in this instance. My knowledge of crazy people in this world doesn't lead me to believe a recognized FSM religion will lead where Atheists that I know would want.

Pope=began 30 AD (almost 2000 years ago)

Spaghetti Monster=began 6 years ago

Why bring up the pope? I hope it isn't in an effort to anger or otherwise upset me. I am not Catholic, nor do I follow any organized religion (now including Pastafarianism). If you think I don't understand the dangers in religion-especially those of antiquity-and their influences today, then you are very mistaken. I've already said, in several posts on this thread, what I feel about religious influence. It's something I agree with Atheists on, hence my confusion in this matter.

I actually have to admit, I was a bit offended. I am Catholic. I have NEVER once admonished any other religion. I have never told people that Atheism is stupid or ridiculous because I chose to not follow that "religion", so I don't understand why people have to bash or otherwise insult other religions. If you don't believe in it, fine, but to make fun of or ridicule it makes you no better then those God fearing, shove-my-religion down your throat Christians (or any other religion)

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

What you described has happened to mostly all religious denominations.

Yeah, I know. However, it takes centuries, even millennia, to get there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

I really don't care if 200 new religions pop up ... as long as they mean well as opposed to breeding terrorism and hatred.

I might be naïve here so please enlighten me... what religion is founded on hatred and terrorism? I am under the impression that they all mean well, and then over a long period they become antiquious and begin to form hateful zealots.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

The FSM types are a pretty easy going bunch as evidenced by their "Eight I’d Really Rather You Didn’ts" commandments:

The Eight I'd Really Rather You Didn'ts | The FSM Consortium

Thanks for sharing :)
As I've said, I'd never heard of the ACTUAL religion... so all of this is rather new news. I like those rules... though I've known several people in real life who follow the FSM (or perhaps are just plain Atheists) who don't share the gospel in such a light-hearted or easy-going manner.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aurora_Bell

I actually have to admit, I was a bit offended. I am Catholic. I have NEVER once admonished any other religion. I have never told people that Atheism is stupid or ridiculous because I chose to not follow that "religion", so I don't understand why people have to bash or otherwise insult other religions. If you don't believe in it, fine, but to make fun of or ridicule it makes you no better then those God fearing, shove-my-religion down your throat Christians (or any other religion)

I'm sorry Bella :(

I didn't mean to bash Catholicism, sorry if I came across that way. My granny and grandpa and my second family here in Colorado are Catholics whom I know very well... and they are all the most selfless, pious, kind, and hilarious people I know.

Trust me, I have had more than a fair share of conversations with Atheists who insult and bash believing people... trying to understand why they do it or what they are trying to accomplish. My intention is always to believe and let believe... and keep it out of the law :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by southamerica

I might be naive here so please enlighten me...what religion is founded on hatred and terrorism?

Oops, I didn't write that clearly sorry. I was indeed referring to the zealots like the islamis terrorists or the events in Northern ireland.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Oops, I didn't write that clearly sorry. I was indeed referring to the zealots like the islamis terrorists or the events in Northern ireland.

I think everyone is in accordance here. Killing in the name of [insert deity here] is wrong. Islam thinks so, Catholics think so, Christians think so.

These religions all have dark spots in their history, they have dark patches currently. I have read a lot about Islam, and your average Muslim is NOT a terrorist.

I have been to many Christian churches and Catholic masses, and never once did they tell me to picket military funerals, or tie a gay man to a fence and kill him.

People are messed up, that's just all there is to it. They use powerful tools like religion to be messed up. Who's to say that, after enough time elapses, organized Atheism doesn't produce the same results?

Quote:

Originally Posted by southamerica

Who's to say that, after enough time elapses, organized Atheism doesn't produce the same results?

Hello sa:

I agree.

However, organized atheism, ISN'T atheism at all. It's an organization - maybe even a religion. It's no different than any OTHER organization, in that it seeks the ends of the ORGANIZATION, and NOT the ends of its members.

True atheists don't organize, because atheism ISN'T a shared belief. It's the ABSENCE of shared belief. That doesn't require other people.

excon

Quote:

Originally Posted by excon

True atheists don't organize, because atheism ISN'T a shared belief. It's the ABSENCE of shared belief. That doesn't require other people.

Hi Ex,

I have no doubt that there will always be people, no matter how out of control the organized FSM Atheism gets, who are just the regular A-Theist people we have today.

Will the rest of the world take those regular people seriously once they have the dogmatic crew of Atheists to associate them with.

It doesn't look like Islam gets that respect, I don't see how Atheists would.

Quote:

Originally Posted by southamerica

Will the rest of the world take those regular people seriously once they have the dogmatic crew of Atheists to associate them with.

It doesn't look like Islam gets that respect, I don't see how Atheists would.

Hello again, sa:

There's NOTHING to be taken seriously about. If an atheist thinks there is, he's no longer an atheist. He's promoting his OWN brand of religion...

excon

Quote:

Originally Posted by excon

There's NOTHING to be taken seriously about. If an atheist thinks there is, he's no longer an atheist. He's promoting his OWN brand of religion...

I really need to take a leaf out of your book.

You've actually given me quite a bit to think about, thanks ex!

Quote:

Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, sa:

There's NOTHING to be taken seriously about. If an atheist thinks there is, he's no longer an atheist. He's promoting his OWN brand of religion...

excon

That kind of brings up this: Strong Atheism vs. Weak Atheism: What’s the Difference?

The overwhelming majority are of the weak variety - you never a peep out of them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

That kind of brings up this: Strong Atheism vs. Weak Atheism: What’s the Difference?

Hello NK:

Hmmm... I never heard it explained that way.. It's good.

excon

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

That kind of brings up this: Strong Atheism vs. Weak Atheism: What's the Difference?

The overwhelming majority are of the weak variety - you never a peep out of them.

I'm glad you shared this, it's another thing I didn't know about.

A friend of mine once said he didn't even like to call himself Atheist because of how Atheists act... though he is without a belief in any gods. I suppose he was a weak Atheist speaking about strong Atheists. It shows how a small fraction of a group of people can affect our view of the whole (whether negatively or positively is up to the individual).

Is there strong vs. weak deism?

Quote:

Originally Posted by southamerica

Is there strong vs. weak deism?

I think so. The ones who have to go door to door to try to convert people would be an example. In my view religion is a personal issue and kept to one's self.

I wasn't trying to poke the bear southy, just making an observation that was intended to be humorous ;)

I don't know what I am, I guess I would be an atheist by definition but I don't follow any set of rules.
In short I'm just a non-believer.
However, I do respect other peoples religious choices, a friend and I used to have some great religious discussions, he is Christian. We both put forward our ideas and beliefs and discussed them rationally, there was no intent of 'conversion'.

If someone asks my opinion I have no problem giving it, but I don't run around trying to convert people. If believing in God makes them happy then why would I want to change that?
Just as not believing in God makes me happy, and threats of "believe or you are going to hell" mean nothing to me as well... in my opinion hell isn't real.

I do understand your point, but I don't think pastafarianism (?) is ever going to be a full religion, it is intended as a satirical look at other organized religions.
Comedians do it every day, they just don't take their jokes as far.

I definitely can see what this guy (the man with the spaghetti strainer) is trying to do, and only in time will we see what it does. I am of the school of thought that if you want to fight a law, you don't do so by adding MORE laws of the same vain. Like I said, it's pretty clear to me here, and in my real life, that this is not as big a deal to the majority of others.

Shazzy I figured you were trying to be funny, but obviously my mind wasn't ready to laugh :). I have the same views that you do, except I'm a believer. It has never occurred to me to try and convert someone no matter what their cup-o-tea is. Telling people they're going to hell, or that you're sorry for them because they can't enjoy life without the promise of heaven, or any such thing that places you on a pedestal because of your worldview and someone else is lame because of theirs... I don't get it, but we all come across those people from time to time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by southamerica

It's establishing a new religion in Austria. Maybe I don't have the same sense of humor when it comes to that.

It hasn't been established yet.

You're reading too far into this, southy. I'll hedge my bets that Pastafarianism is a hipster invention—Google "pastafarianism and hipster". Like albear said, it's trolling. Except it's not funny.

I don't know how many hipsters live in Colorado, there may be a few in Denver, but you mostly have hippies out that way. Most hipsters live on the east coast.

A reaction is what these Pastafarian clowns want, and doing so gives them and their "religion" credibility. Just ignore it.

Here's a good one: God Hates Shrimp.

Quote:

Originally Posted by slapshot_oi

Except it's not funny.

I guess that's in the eye of the beholder, I find it quite humourous. :)
Of course you can ignore it, that's what I do with religion. No need to make a big whoop about it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by slapshot_oi

Here's a good one: God Hates Shrimp.

I have seen that one, and I LOVE that movement! It's going after homophobia, which is way more dangerous than people wearing a hat in an ID.

I also like Michael Moore's approach to homophobia.

Anyway, I definitely took this Pastafarian thing pretty seriously, but I'll leave it alone for now. We'll just see what happens, I guess!

Quote:

Originally Posted by tickle

I guess it would be nice to meet a flying spaghetti monster; he would be fun to play with.

tick

Looks like its waiting for a dark place to hide those meatballs.