The issue has been raised about extending a public thread privately by using PMs or going off site and/or offline to continue the correspondence.

I think eveyone knows I am very much against a responder offering such contact. I am not against the contact itself, but believe it should be the asker's choice and not the responder's offer.

One of the purposes of keeping discussions public on a site like this is to get a variety of responses or input on a question. Another purpose is to have peer review to make sure answers are accurate. Taking the discussion private removes both of those advantages.

However, I do recognize that there are occasions where it does make sense to take a discussion private. Generally this occurs when the information being shared is private and posting it publicly might cause problems or embarrassment to the asker.

My feeling here is that we open this for discussion which may result in a clarification of the guidelines. But if anyone sees an offer for private extension of a thread that the Report Inappropriate Post link be used and let the mods decide whether the post oversteps the guidelines or not.

I agree Scott. This post should be made into an announcement of some kind so it will be seen everywhere.

The background for me is: I was certainly corrected for taking "it" off the board some 11,000 posts ago when someone didn't want to post personal info and I suggested that they PM it to me, was told it's against the rules. Since that time I have respected that call on the part of the moderators and have repeated the info very frequently on the legal boards, believing it's policy. (There is also another thread on this within the past two or three months and I believe two people were told NOT to take it off the board.)

My experience on the legal boards with PM's several times has been that a question was psoted. Answers were given. Suddenly an answer comes out of left field, makes no sense. That ANSWER is questioned and it comes out that the OP has been in contact off the board and provided additional or other information which has totally changed the question as well as the answers. Confusing and a waste of time.

I'm very interested in what others have experienced.

This all came about when an AMHD member suggested that a financially desperate OP contact him regarding his resume and would direct the OP to a person who would help him perfect it without charge. Having done resumes for years, I know there are few more personal documents than a resume -- one's location, phone number, work sites, dates of service, etc. I'm suggesting that was the point of the member's PM request, to preserve the privacy of the OP. In any event, the OP was new to the site and didn't have PM capabilities, so it is a moot point.

(Please add that last fact to the site rules and regs, please.)

I've done it recently:

Ask for an address because without an address I can't plug in the numbers to tvfool and tell what antenna one needs or if the selected one will work. I've done this twice. Once long ago. The last time got declined which is OK too. I still posted the results even though some information was from a PM.

The other recent time was the possible posting of a propreitary picture of a company facility. A picture wasn't used in the end and neither was PM or email. I was the only person replying to the thread anyway.

So, in both cases, it was to protect someone's privacy and to continue the non-private portions on the forum.

Recently, I've seen a post which said "I" may have the manual. "I'll" email a few scanned pages to you for you to decide.

Part of the issues are who is who.
A JR member are they really who they say they are, will they be asking for money to help with the resume or will they want to "sell" a product to the other person.

If a person is tellig someone what they want to hear, they will go off board and often not hear the real truth on the board

Okay, question. I have friends on the board, friends that I talk to on the phone and email off this site. Is it okay for me to tell them to PM me with a thread link, or to tell me they're available to talk?

Maybe a silly question, but I just want to be sure it's okay.

I actually just took a thread to PMs myself, but for different reasons than what was posted here... kinda.

Another (long-time) member and I both responded to a thread, and replied to different aspects of the same question. Because I did not want to dominate someone else's thread, I asked for a specific clarification of this other member through PMs--mostly because I felt it was turning into a discussion rather than actually answering the OP (on my part, not the othermember)

If it turns out that my private question actually IS pertinent to the thread, I'll repost it, and ask the other member to post their answer to me. However---I don't think this is what you mean.

I've always told people to take their private questions to the thread rather than PMing me--unless it was an issue of supreme privacy. At that point, what I try to do is involve another member that can be trusted in the PMs--the other member doesn't have to respond at all, but it covers my butt JUST IN CASE. So, for example, I'll tell Bubba_Johnson that I understand the need for privacy, but need to involve AdministratorX in our PMs. AdministratorX is not there to help answer, but to make sure that I do not take advantage of the Bubba_Johnson and the information he is giving me. I ask Bubba_johnson if that's okay with him, and then ask him to cc the other person when replying to me as well.

I think I've only had to do this ONCE, though. Most of the time the stuff I get is just stuff that people are too embarrassed to ask in public, rather than stuff that is actually sensitive in a security way.

And it is a tough call, you PM someone with a question about what they post,

Not post on the board for them to PM you. And perhaps as a expert to clear something up.

But this started this last time with someone wanting them to PM about a resume they were going to offer to write for them.

And I fear on the legal boards, or adoption boards, that people will be using PM to tell them that they can do the legal work for them, or that they can search for their love one.

That is the issue with the rule, if there is not a good rule to restrict it, for any one good person using it there can be others using it for bad

To Synnen
That was a valid use of PMs and I've done similar. The point here is YOU chose to go offline, not because someone asked you to.

As chuck pointed out, it does matter who. If a long time member who we can trust to be accurate and not take advantage its better than a newbie we don't know.

To alt,
Again this is a situation where you are contacting someone you have a relationship with. Not offering to help someone privately. Nothing wrong in that.

Ok, two questions:

First, where do we find the rule in question here? I'm not seeing it in the TOS.

Second, if a question is posted in which the OP specifically asks for response by private message, rather than public answer, is that question inappropriate? Should it be reported?

The situation I got into was where an OP asked for response by PM, but apparently had turned off private messages on her account. I posted a public answer noting that, and telling her that if she got it fixed and was still interested, she could send me a private message.

I get that the value of this site is that not only does the OP get his or her question answered, but third parties with similar problems can learn from reading the dialog. Hence the importance of keeping things "on board."

But what about the situation of someone saying they need to find a particular good or service? Can an answerer who provides that good or service let the OP know? Pardon the facetious example, but suppose someone posts the question, "I really need a brain transplant. How do I find a neurosurgeon who does that?"

If there is a member of AMHD who is a brain-transplant neurosurgeon, is she allowed to post an answer, "As a matter of fact, I've successfully transplanted over five hundred brains"?

What about, "As a matter of fact, I've successfully transplanted over five hundred brains; call my office at 555-1212 to make an appointment"?

What if there is no member of AMHD who is a brain transplant neurosurgeon. Am I allowed to post an answer, "Dr. Frankenfurter at 123 Fake Street transplanted my brain a year ago, and I've been much smarter ever since"?

Is it okay to suggest to an OP that he or she contact a third party that may be able to help with the problem in question?

What if you just suggest a general third party, such as, "That could be serious, you should see your doctor"?

Vs. the example of recommending a specific doctor?

What if you recommend a specific doctor who happens to be your friend? What if it's your spouse?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alder

If there is a member of AMHD who is a brain-transplant neurosurgeon, is she allowed to post an answer, "As a matter of fact, I've successfully transplanted over five hundred brains"?

What about, "As a matter of fact, I've successfully transplanted over five hundred brains; call my office at 555-1212 to make an appointment"?

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The first is fine, the second is not. Its OK to mention that you do something and let the OP choose to ask for more info. Its not OK to ask yourself for offline contact.

Is there a way to appropriately redirect OP when they start to PM you without a request?

I know the rule is not to offer to take the message offline, but if you have random people following up PMing you personally, how do you politely redirect them? Can you answer at that time if they have chosen to PM you? Sometimes new members you haven't ever answered.

Respond with:

I'm sorry, but PMs are only for correspondence of a personal nature. If you have a question or are following up on a response, please post int he appropriate forum.

Scott I'm copying that and putting it in my sig. Oh, no, not enough room. Oh well. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Justwantfair

Is there a way to appropriately redirect OP when they start to PM you without a request?

I know the rule is not to offer to take the message offline, but if you have random people following up PMing you personally, how do you politely redirect them? Can you answer at that time if they have choosen to PM you? Sometimes new members you haven't ever answered.

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I just write back that I'm sorry but I am unable to take INFORMATION and/or questions off the board - please post on the board and I will get back to you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alder

First, where do we find the rule in question here? I'm not seeing it in the TOS.

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The rules are clearly against using this site for advertising. This comes under that heading.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ScottGem

The rules are clearly against using this site for advertising. This comes under that heading.

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I take it you are quoting this rule:

Quote:

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Do not advertise or spam. You are welcome to include information and links in your signature to a reasonable extent, but do not refer or link to your products or services in the body of posts.

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So you define the word "advertising" to include an answer that says, "I need more information to be able to answer your question. I realize it's very personal, you can send the information privately as you prefer"?

I would never have understood the word "advertising," as people normally use that word, to describe such a suggestion. However, now that I know better, I won't.

I wasn't sure, Scott, are you the person on this site who makes/enforces the rules and terms of service? If so, you might consider editing the rule to make it more clear that you consider anything that suggests any communication other than on the forum thread to be advertising. If not, could you please let me know who does make the rules and decide who gets kicked off the site for breaking them, so we can get an official ruling of what is allowed?

Ask Me Help Desk - FAQ: <u>Other Forum Features</u>

Clearly states not to use PM for info that should be put in the question.

Adler you have been warned, continued argument is uncalled for.
Even if you can not "see" it or do not wish to, it is a rule and you will follow it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alder

I wasn't sure, Scott, are you the person on this site who makes/enforces the rules and terms of service? If so, you might consider editing the rule to make it more clear that you consider anything that suggests any communication other than on the forum thread to be advertising. If not, could you please let me know who does make the rules and decide who gets kicked off the site for breaking them, so we can get an official ruling of what is allowed?

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There are a number of us here Alder. We have specific titles yet many of the duties are the same. It is the Administrators who make the rules and us as moderators who enforce them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alder

So you define the word "advertising" to include an answer that says, "I need more information to be able to answer your question. I realize it's very personal, you can send the information privately as you prefer"?

I would never have understood the word "advertising," as people normally use that word, to describe such a suggestion. However, now that I know better, I won't.

I wasn't sure, Scott, are you the person on this site who makes/enforces the rules and terms of service?

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First, I used the advertising to deal with your previous examples. Your example above is different. Since most people here are anonymous, meaning that there is no connection to their real identity unless they want there to be, there really isn't a need to worry about information being personal. But the real problem is that once someone solicits offline contact, we have no idea what they are doing. We don't know if there is a genuine desire to help or they are looking to sell something or otherwise take advantage. Between the prohibition against advertising and the description of PMing, we cover those eventualities.

The owners of this site make the rules. The moderators, of which I am one of a few, help in making the rules and we interpret and enforce them. As Chuck pointed out, you have had this explained to you already. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt by responding to your inquiries. But the bottomline here is those are the rules.

Guys, I want to apologize if anything I said here came across as argumentative or confrontational. Such was not my intention. AMHD is a great site, and I'm glad I've found it. It is a great container for free exchange of information. And I very much realize that this site could not work without moderators who are willing to put in a lot of their own time in keeping it on track. I am grateful to you all and appreciative of what you do.

The policy goals of the rule discussed in this thread are very good ones, both that we encourage public sharing of information that anyone with a web browser can tap, and that we protect questioners (many of whom are minors) from inappropriate requests for personal contact.

Fr. Chuck, in particular, I do want to thank you for bringing this issue to my attention. I admit that in skimming through the FAQ when I first found this site, I didn't give much thought to the parameters of the line that questions that can be posted as a thread should not be done by PM, or what that might mean. I don't take offense over the warning. Like I said, I agree with the policy and I will encourage it in my own posts and comments.

Blessings to you all.

Lets say for example Alder, that your reason to get them off board is to offer them a 3 dollar a minute reading, or to sell them some skin lightening product, or some get rich scheme, we have those that do that each week. So often some restrictions have to be used for everyone's own protection

I often get forwarded copies of some of the PM, you would just never believe what happens behind the scenes at times

So the infraction I received for requested offline contact was unfounded and unnecessary,I had personal information I was willing to share with the poster,not to be made public due to embarrassment and whatnot.

I'm still not clear on the PMing rules. As the AMHD Job Coach, I do my best to advise people who come here for resume and cover letter and other writing help. I also do my best to keep the question on the board, because it may help others with similar concerns.

If someone PMs or emails his resume to me which contains so much personal information, would I be wrong to help him and continue that kind of off-site correspondence? I've been helping people with resumes, etc. since 1985 and have never charged anyone online for my services. (I do charge the real-life clients.)

And I get requests for very specific legal information - or research. I tell people I cannot answer off the Board, partly for insurance purposes.

One of my concerns with any off line help is whether AMHD is responsible for the correctness of the advice (AMHD being the connection between the two parties); another is that no one learns anything if the advice is given off line; another is that the OP has no idea that the person he/she is asking for advice may not be the most qualified or experienced - or may not just have a screw loose.

OP's in many cases tend to hear only what they want to hear and I see people who should not be doing counselling or giving legal advice doing just that on a regular basis - these are the people the OP would rely on.

?

The only off-line advice I have given is to track down dog shelters or rescues in the OP's area.
I get them to PM me their location and I then find a shelter for them... there is no right or wrong with that answer it's just better for them not to post their state in the public forum.

I recently saw a post by someone where the OP requested to PM another member to talk to them about her situation... now there was no personal information, it's just that the OP liked this persons answer the best... What do you do in that situation?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by shazamataz

The only off-line advice I have given is to track down dog shelters or rescues in the OP's area.
I get them to PM me their location and I then find a shelter for them... there is no right or wrong with that answer it's just better for them not to post their state in the public forum.

I recently saw a post by someone where the OP requested to PM another member to talk to them about her situation... now there was no personal information, it's just that the OP liked this persons answer the best... What do you do in that situation?

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And this is EXACTLY my problem - the fact that the OP "likes" a specific person's advice the best, a specific person says what the OP wants/needs to hear, does NOT make the advice correct. I've seen horrendous advice, again on the legal boards, which would get a person literally arrested and/or sued accepted and the person giving the advice THANKED - meanwhile, others who have posted the Law get criticized because the OP doesn't like the correct advice.

And that's what makes me nervous when a discussion goes off the Board -

Of course, anyone can look at a profile and PM. Question is what happens (also) when you GET that PM?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by shazamataz

The only off-line advice I have given is to track down dog shelters or rescues in the OP's area.
I get them to PM me their location and I then find a shelter for them... there is no right or wrong with that answer it's just better for them not to post their state in the public forum.

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I disagree. There is nothing wrong with posting their state or general area. I list LI, NY as my location. That covers a wide geographic area populated by several million people. Even listing a large metropolitan area is not a problem. Often, we need to know the general location to provide an accurate answer. If someone lists only a state, one can respond with locations throughout the state and let them pick what is closest to them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by shazamataz

I recently saw a post by someone where the OP requested to PM another member to talk to them about her situation... now there was no personal information, it's just that the OP liked this persons answer the best... What do you do in that situation?

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You tell the OP that the rules of this site call for questions to be asked in the public forums and that you will be happy to answer their question there. If they want to make sure you see their question they can PM you a link to it. But don't answer the question privately, unless the answer would involve very specific locations.

Thanks Scott :)

I do agree with you about the state, it is such a wide area that it would not matter, however I have had people refuse to post that detail on the forum.

If they refuse then you tell them you can't help.