With over 10 million illegal aliens in the U.S who is to blame and how would you solve this problem?:cool:
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With over 10 million illegal aliens in the U.S who is to blame and how would you solve this problem?:cool:
I would solve it by legalizing them and letting them earn a living in peace. : )
BTW
Poverty and the lure of a solution are to blame.
I tend to agree,but here in Texas most of the legal Mexicans resent the fact that they had to go for years to get the citizenship. I don't know if amnesty would be fair to those who chose to go through the system. But on the other hand how can you deny a poor person willing to work a chance to feed themselves and give their children a better life? President Bush is sending troops to the border but the door has been open for so long, how is he going to deal with the 10 million already here? I personally think it has been the intention of the government(NOT JUST BUSH) to exploit these people for cheap labor anyway. There are many getting rich off the backs of illegals and I absolutely think this should stop.:cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Starman
Coming here to work is one thing and that is fine.. what drives me absolultey insane is the hundreds of thousands on welfare that can not speak a word of english that stand in front of you in the grocery store with their 5 kids and pregnant using foodstamps to buy steak!
It's hard to tell the aliens, that they can't come to this country and make a life for them self. However, we need to stop them doing it illegally, we would never have that many immigrants here if they didn't come illegally because there are immigration quotas that keep that in check. I live in California, and it's a melting pot out here of white,black,latino, asian and what not. It was definitely a transition from when I moved out here from the midwest. I think in all respects it's a good idea to stop the aliens from coming over, because we can forget this is happening and just turn our backs but eventually and I think it already has happened, that it will run out of control and poverty will only increase to the point where the majority of Americans are affected by it. I'm not saying ship them back, or never let anymore in, just finally the U.S. government should start regulating it better and adjust the influx of immigrants based on what our economy needs.
Its good to keep a balanced viewpoint when it comes to subjects like this which can tend to become unbalanced and propagate harmful misconception which can motivate harassment.
USATODAY.com - Center ties hate crimes to border debate
Tension over illegal immigration is contributing to a rise in hate groups and hate crimes across the nation, according to the Southern Poverty Law Center. It says that racist groups are using the immigration debate as a rallying cry.. . against the wishes of law enforcement. One of those groups is American Border Patrol.. .
USATODAY.com - Center ties hate crimes to border debate
USATODAY.com - Hispanic-owned businesses are ready to spend
Greg Cortez, founder of a San Antonio tech consulting company, is in a business spending mood.. .
There are 1.2 million Hispanic-owned firms in the USA — about one of every 16 companies...
url=http://www.usatoday.com/money/companies/management/2004-05-06-hispanic_x.htm
Immigrant Hispanics pump as much as $20 billion into Nevada's economy a year, contributing to the vitality of the nation's fastest growing state, Hispanic immigrants boost economy
Hispanic immigrants boost economy
Nevada sees $20B boost annually from demographic
Bill O'Driscoll RENO GAZETTE-JOURNAL
Posted: 9/13/2004 10:02 pm
Modified: 9/13/2004 10:13 pmBefore a totally unfair and dismal picture develops and spreads perhaps it would be wise to see the other side of the coin as well.
The Value of Undocumented Workers
The American Immigration Law Foundation works to increase public understanding of U.S. immigration law through litigation support and public education about the contributions of immigrants to America.. . The report shows immigrant workers provide most major sectors of... can be greatly enhanced by the contributions of immigrant labor... the U.S. to gain legal immigrant status.
The Value of Undocumented Workers
No no way...
It's a problem world wide.
Even in Europe.
In europe there some illegal aliens who have been in my country for 2 years.
Wow that's a nice long holiday isn't it!!
While we as citizens work our asses off and pay high taxes to support them.
To me its unfair.
And also I would like to protect my identity - not lose it at the end of the day.
Just to look at all sides fairly, would you be trying to go to another country if there was opportunity in your own country? Could it be that other governments around the world are so inadequate that the people run from them and move to where they can at least eat in peace? So could you say that the inability of government to meet the needs of the people is a reason for migration by people in the first place?:cool: :eek:
Yes I left my country when I was 19, wanted to experience something new something different - so I went to live in england for 6 years, but I was legal I had VISA's. This was back then before we joined the european union, now I can travel anywhere I want within europe with no visa's being part of the EU.. That's fair enough!
But aliens its different.
Its all down to the government at the end of the day. It's the governments fault for aliens running away from there country illegally because they are unhappy and come in illegally in our country! They should sort out there own problems instead making THEM OUR problems.
But as how selfish this may sound... is it my problem? Is it my countries problem? My answer is simple... NO!
In the ideal world we all would be working together to feed and take care of everyone's needs but we as humans tend to be selfish and sometimes we forget that not everyone has it as good as we do and I'm sure that If MEXICO really cared about their people would they be running to the US?
I know this isn't a religious discussion but it does touch on certain principles of behavior which are relevant. Also I don't know whether you are a Christian or not or what your opinion of the scriptures is. In any case, your last statement reminded me of what Jesus said.Quote:
Originally Posted by Krs
Luke 10 (King James Version)
25And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
26He said unto him, What is written in the law? How readest thou?
27And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
28And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.
29But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?
30And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead.
31And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.
32And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side.
33But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him,
34And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.
35And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee.
36Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?
37And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.
BTW
Perhaps Iraq isn't this country's problem either from your standpoint and yet billions are being poured into that area in order to improve their way of life. Neither are dozens of other countries and yet the USA spends billions on foreign aid. So perhaps your viewpoint of not lending a helping hand and showing no compassion for the suffering of others because they are not your fellow citizens doesn't quite fit in with the American way.
One must distinguish between the problem of immigration and the virtue of helping those in difficulty. As a matter of face, most people are ready to help but not when such actions can backfire in terms of health and security.
It is probable that out of the 97% of those who are anti-immigration, 50% or more would be ready to donate money to make their country a better place or to help their children get an education etc.
One must donate with prudence and must not allow his generosity to be abused. It is also unatural to give up elements like peace, security and a healthy environment to help others.
Even worse than that, is the impression given to some immigrants that they can enjoy the fruits of Europe without contributing to it or without integrating and accepting values like secularism, gender equality, hygience and ethics.
People and politicians complain and complain. Lm11 million a year is WAY enough for our budget illegal lovers!
If only the government would send them all back, everything will be settled, but one must keep in mind, that other political parties and pressure groups (in malta and within europe) will definitaley call us 'racists.'
I just want the spokesman of any political spectrum which is in favour of these illegals in our community give us a sensible solution. I know what they'd say, probably they would say SET THEM ALL FREE, UMANI DAWN! Lofl how sad, if we say we are all humans, why do we have countries, nations, and flags (these supposedly represent us). People like this have totally lost it.
I would deport them all, come what may from the other political parties, racist comments and what not, this is our land, we have to defend it, or else if nothing is done, it's up to the citizens, and this will lead in blood shed. (just like in 1846 in New York, history is repeating itself! - 15,000 / week of illegal irish would end up in the New York shores.)
The issue isn't really the unrestricted illegal crossing immigrantsd as Mr. Dobbs, who has the habit of card-stacking or presenting only one side of the issue to the detriment of his own believability, smugly tells us each day on TV. Obviously a nation has a right to secure its border and to regulate who enters and who doesn't. The issue is the fanatical insistence that these people who hold jobs here already, have families here, are hardworking and decent not be allowed to participate in the guest worker program as suggested by the president of the United States.
Weird that a person should enthusiastically suggest a cruel solution, such as indiscrimiate whol;esale deportation and then immediately have us believe that he advocates a sensible one. The policy suggested by the post above would perhaps be viable if it were not inhumane. Unfortunately, such a policy requires callousness of character, an unchristian insensitivity to human suffering that decent Christian Americans would never approve since it goes completely contrary to what Jesus tells us to do when one is dealing with our fellowman. Also, the comment about bloodshed seems to be more of a war cry than a prediction.
Psalm 55:21
His mouth was smooth as butter, But his heart was war: His words were softer than oil, Yet were they drawn swords. KJV
Furthermore, it's wrong to draw an analogy between immigrants who arrive in Europe from the Middle East or Asia with Mexican immigrants because the analogy has one major flaw. The flaw might not seem obvious to those who claim to be or are ignorant of very recent history. You see, the parts of Europe mentioned were never part of these European immigrants' original historical homeland. In contrast the parts of what is now NOW USA involved in this immigration issue were once northern Mexico and Mexicans were there before the Aliens who were granted legal status by Mexico. These later became illegal aliens by their refusal to abide by Mexican law which they had promised to obey in order to get in. These felt it their right to illegally take the land that was once Mexico by force. So in some people's perspective, it seems rather strange to throw the word illegal around as Mr. Dobbs and others do when the same appellation can be ethically tagged on those who claim legal ownership of that stolen land. So that historical tidbit, adds a whole new dimension to this problem and stands out like an ethical sore thumb from the perspective of those who have a fair sense of justice.
In any case, no one is asking the USA to open its borders and let in hordes of illegals as Mr. Dobbs repeatedly states each day on his program despite the repeated explanations given him by Hispanic representatives that such is not the case and despite the explanation given him by the President of the USA in his recent address to the nation in reference to this issue. That sort of misrepresentation of the issue, which Mr. Dobbs disgorges on TV every day in his self appointed crusade, is a strawman argument which is simply put forth to muddy the waters and keep the fanatical opposition to granting those already here for many years a chance to do honest work and make a living.
As the president pointed out clearly, no one is asking for charity--just an opportunity to work and to be received hospitably in areas that were once there homeland and into which the Anglos who are now angered wee once received hospitably by the Mexican government. That is all that is being sought and nothing more.
If indeed such an opportunity is denied as Dobbs seems to be suggesting via his one-sided presentation of the issues, then we might as well take a chisel to the words written at the base of the statue of liberty and trash them for all they would be worth since leaving them there would be the epitome of hypocrisy. Again your words bring the scriptures to my mind.
Genesis 4:9
And Jehovah said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: am I my brother's keeper? KJV
Incidentally, those who are vehemently opposed to letting these people participate in a guest program are the very ones who would loudly protest when the prices for agricultural products double after if these employers are forced to pay the minimum or higher than minimum wage. Neither do I see Americans so desperate for Jobs that they would be willing to spend eight backbreaking hours under the sun for a minimum wage.
BTW
My hope for a better world is not placed on governments but is placed on God's kingdom. However, it isn't wrong to speak out against injustice in the meantime since remaining silent might be viewed as tacit approval.
I don't have enough information on this topic to make an informed opinion... but I do have a related question. I have tried to research it, but have not done so to satifaction yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
How does anyone in the US know accurately how many illegal folks are here and from where they came?
Acquiring that information, on the outset, seems a formidable task since those people seem the most likely to hide - which is what prompted me to wonder.
Can anyone shed some light to it?
Weird that a person should enthusiastically suggest a cruel solution, such as indiscrimiate whol;esale deportation and then immediately have us believe that he advocates a sensible one.
Reason for this suggestion is manily for protection, why shouldn't we put ourselves first!!
That's what I can't understand. I know helping people is very important but our help is taken advantage then I don't accept that. And that's what's happening in europe, so us as europeans want to put our foot down and portect us.
If this whole issue was vice-versa do you think they would accept us a european and our culture in their land??
I personally know my answer.
Oh and I'm talking about the problems with illegal aliens in europe not USAQuote:
Originally Posted by Krs
Here seems to be your argument expressed as a syllogism:Quote:
Originally Posted by Krs
Putting ourselves first justifies being inhumane
The present situation demands I put myself first.
I am justified in being inhumane
Of course you have a duty to look out for yourself.
But that doesn't annul your duty toward others both from an philosophical ethical or Christian standpoint. The problem with your suggested solution is that it indiscriminately includes people who want to do an honest day's work and care for their family and are law abiding with the troublemakers. Such a policy is of necessity an unjust one. So is the effort which Dobbs is putting forth with his daily propaganda to sway American opinion against President Bush's policy of helping these people become guest workers so they can earn a living without having to be exploited by predatory money-hungry employers. When we callouslly deprive a person of his livelihood and then suggest nonchalantly that they and their families be dumped in some Godforsaken area and left there as if they were a bunch of cattle, then we are being inhumane regardless of our motives.
BTW
The USA border policy between USA and Mexico follows a pattern that is easily understood by social scientists. They have observed that the policy becomes lax when the USA is short on cheap labor and becomes stricter when that labor begins to be perceived as not as necessary. It happened with the Chinese when they were needed for railroad building. Once the construction ceased then quotas were passed to prevent any further significant immigration. It has also happened repeatedly in relation to the Mexican immigration as well. You can't show people how well it goes for them here and then turn around and tell them to stay away after you have finished using them to your convenience. It violates a principle of not using humans as things.
BTW
I am not taking sides in any national conflict,
This is not about nations it's about people.
.It's applicable to all aliens in all nations by extension and anyone reading it will apply it to the present border issue. The real danger in such statements is that they are inflammatory. Irrational people, of which there are a significant number in this world, will latch on to any statement that encourages their need to persecute, harass, humiliate. Neither will those individuals make a distinction among the various Hispanic groups in the USA. They will conveniently lump them together as is their custom and proceed to do what they consider their patriotic duty. It's a mentality that is indigenous and which feeds off the type of statements made by Dobbs and others who either don't know what the consequences of those statements mean for ALL Hispanics or else just don't give a damn. Just recently a guest on his show stated that land mines should be placed on both sides of the border. Dobbs, who had seemed a bit saddened by previous commentaries which did not share his views was suddenly rejuvenated and began to laugh. In fact, he was still laughing when the cameras faded out the scene. Of course Dobbs would tell you that he simply found the idea funny and that-shucks-he meant no harm. If indeed this is the case, then the man is a loose canon and should be muzzled in order to prevent any of his other well meaning statements from causing the very bloodshed that tickles him pink to think aboutQuote:
Originally Posted by Krs
Matthew 19:36-37 "But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken.. . For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned...
I think you make a very valid point here Starman, nobody cares as long as there is a need for cheap labor but when the job is done they should disappear as if they never existed. The fact that the governments here and abroad allow for these people to come from their native lands shows the need for them but after all the protest and dust clears ,now they are a threat to the economy. The foundation of the US is built on immigration and to not allow immigrants to come for a better life and the freedoms we enjoy is going against the very principle that we have established as right. They should be given amnesty, a job, and a chance at the freedom we all deserve. As to how many we are talking about everyone agrees on 10 million but I haven't found any site that makes this number official so in my mind the 10 million number is an estimate. It also shows the lack of border security we have in the US,so whose to blame for that but the president!:cool: :eek:
I am not sure what you mean by blaming the president. Are you blaming the current president or all presidents who came before him and also did nothing or very little about the border security.
Also I question giving amnesty. I do see your point that America was established on immigrants, however, giving them amnesty? If we do that across the board we will have more hoards coming in than we already do. Where would we stop? We would have to stop somewhere or we will run out of room. Not only where would we stop, but how would we stop?
We already have our poor and homeless here, do we need more? We already have families that cannot afford health insurance but do not qualify for federal assistance, yet we give federal assistance to the people who immigrate here.
Should we not try and take care of what is wrong with the "system" and our current citizens before giving amnesty to new ones?
For whatever reason stopping illegals from crossing the border was not high on the things to worry about for any of the last 4 presidents. We already have 10 million and lets be real, do you think you can round up that many people and kick them out of the country? And from what I've seen of the government they don't care if your homeless nor do they care if you have health care or not, Sad to say there is nothing wrong with the system as long as the rich get richer.This president has just said he would send 6000 troops to help the border patrol so there the problems solved.! Now go back to buying gas for your SUV and leave me alone!! :cool: :eek:
Got to love sarcaism
Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
A simple relocation of American factories operating overseas to the Mexican side of the USA Mexican/American border would alleviate the situation. Strangely, they prefer to travel to the other side of the world to benefit from cheap labor rather than to hire the cheap labor right across the border.
What Do We Do About All Those Illegals? Remember the Alamo! by Warner
Todd Huston - The New Media Journal.us
The Mexican government must be to corrupt for the greedy american businessman.:cool: :eek:
Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
They don't need to set up shop in Mexico. The workers cross the border and come to them.
Nice one
Yeah but that defeats the purpose of trying to stop them from coming into the country
If you place a carrot in front of a rabbit, the rabbit will go for the carrot. Especially if there are no carrots or carrots are scarce where the rabbit is when he is being tempted. Remove the carrot and the rabbit having nothing to chase will stay put. The problem is that those offering the carrot found it profitable to do so and those able to stop them from offering the carrot turned their faces the other way.Quote:
Originally Posted by wizzkid89
Giant complexes of cement and glass stand where vast desert once was. The maquiladoras, American-owned factories in Mexico, are enormous, and their modern design creates a stark contrast with the run-down gas stations, homes and stores in their neighborhoods.
The maquiladoras are a sanitized version of doing business in Mexico that began in 1994 when the North American Free Trade Agreement took effect. NAFTA allows American businesses to go within 50 miles of the U.S. border in an area called the Free Trade Zone. In this area, businesses are not subject to U.S. taxes or many tariff restrictions. The signees of NAFTA—the United States, Mexico and Canada—have set a goal of 2008 for full implementation of the agreement's many objectives.
But the changes are already apparent. In 1990 there were 1,700 American factories in Mexico; in 2001 there were 3,600.
Currently, there are no health benefits and, for the most part, no unions in Juarez, according to Public Citizen, a non-profit public interest group. People interviewed for this story accused American companies of a number of abuses in Mexico:
• Improperly disposing waste, which has led to the contamination of drinking water and an elevated risk of Hepatitis A.
• Working people up to 12 hours a day.
• Showing a hiring preference toward women because they are more docile than men.
Since NAFTA took effect, the minimum wage has fallen 20 percent, according to Public Citizen. Half of the maquiladora workforce makes less than $8 a day.
The women who work in maquiladoras are often from rural parts of Mexico and have no family support system, says Tom Hanson, director of the Mexican Solidarity Network. That makes female maquiladora workers targets for killers.
The best-paid maquiladora workers are in the auto segment, Hanson says—they are paid $70 a week.
Tom Fullerton, an associate professor of business and finance at the University of Texas at El Paso, says NAFTA is not all bad, but some policies passed by the Mexican government have hampered reform.
“Maquiladoras have been in the area since the 1960s, but the Mexican government makes it hard for companies to lay off or terminate workers,” Fullerton says. “So when the economy goes into a decline, the wages the employees receive suffer since the companies cannot decrease their employees.
“A lot of people like to claim the maquiladoras don't pay fair wages, but look at the thousands at the border. Mexicans are voting with their feet—they leave behind their family and friends. Their situation could be much worse.”
Once, NAFTA was good for the border, says Richard Bath, a retired professor of political science at the University of Texas at El Paso.
“A lot has slipped behind,” he says. “A lot of the gains after NAFTA have been negated. The whole concept of NAFTA is anti-agricultural.”
Sales of corn, Mexico's staple crop, have been stunted by U.S. exports. When NAFTA began, nearly one quarter of Mexico's population—8 million people—was involved in agriculture. This number fell to 6.5 million people by 2003.
Global Trade Watch says the Mexican government recently estimated that more than half of its population doesn't earn enough money to cover the basics of food, clothing, health care, housing, education and public transportation.
“Unemployment in Juarez is only at about 2 percent, but if you sell cigarettes on the street, you are considered fully employed,” says Victor Muñoz, the co-director of the Coalition Against Violence for Women and Families on the Border.
I found this when I googled american factories in Mexico, just to enlighten those who didn't know!:cool: :eek:
Anyone who thinks this is all about illegals coming to the US should give pause to what it is so many people are running from! Would you run too? (Its not just Mexico either,so forget about this being a mexican thang!):cool: :(
That information should put everything in quite a new perspective and I'm sure that for many it does. Unfortunately, some college professors are as much susceptible to irrationality as those they feel intellectually superior to. Here is a case in point. There was a guest professor on the Lou Dobbs program yesterday which accused the Mexican immigrants of deserving to be in the situation they are in because their government fails to take advantage of the nation's natural resources. After hearing this accusation, I began to wonder whether any other group of immigrants have ever been subjected to this type of drivel. For example, were the Irish described as deserving to be in trouble because of their government's policies. Or were the Italians, and the Russian Jews, or the South Vietnamese? Furthermore, blaming the poor for the policies instituted by an uncaring rich upper class is not a morally justifiable reason to join in and get in a few kicks of our own. Actually, I can't recall when Americans have ever felt justified in adding their own kicks to the bloodied broken ribs of immigrants who are forced from their home country by the unbearable conditions existing there. In any case, the suggestion, which this good professor made with the full approval of Lou Dobbs, makes a mockery of the words written at the base of the statue of liberty. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Dobbs and his supporters next begin a concerted campaign to have those formerly appreciated words chiseled from the statue.
But the part that irked me the most was how this professor, used a hypothetical wherein Taiwanese were the people in Mexican land. His conclusion was that Mexico would be rich. On the surface this might seem self evident. But upon closer scrutiny, or under the light of cogent reasoning it proves otherwise. The sad truth is that the good professor's hypothetical is seriously flawed. Why? Because it cunningly ignores the political and social disadvantages under which the poor in Mexico are required to struggle and refers only to Mexico's natural resources without taking the present governments policies into account. What the professors hypothetical does, is to transport the Taiwanese onto Mexican soil with their former cooperative government and all.
If this hypothetical is to remain true to justice, it must place the Taiwanese poor under the identical government situation in which the Mexican poor are in. If so, you will get the same result--a large downtrodden poor class, a small but comfortable middle class, and a very small rich class hoarding the nation's wealth. So this supposedly rational fellow's denigrating attack on the Mexican character as opposed to the Taiwanese is ill founded and unjustified.
I agree, I think the large part of the blame should be on the Mexican Government, and I believe that if their government could start helping the poor and making a stable economy where it will support a large majority of it's people you will see a decline, obviously, in immigrants coming to the states. But what is interesting to think about is if the Mexican government could actually ever achieve these goals, do you think it's possible that the U.S. government might ship the aliens back, now consider that the government doesn't do it right now of course, but maybe 50 years in the future, could it be justifiable to send them back if the conditions in Mexico proved suitable?
I talk from a mdediterrean point of view.
And what's happening in europe is out of control. Where I live everything is sky high, pay exteremly high taxes.
From my point of view and not maybe everyone will agree, but my governments priority is illegal aliens.. and its sucks, to me the citizens should come first then the tourist industry.
I pay high taxes and 70% or more of those taxes are used - so that open centres are built for the these illegals, which have weekly FREE barbq's, get FREE phone cards to contact home, get FREE internet access, get FREE food, FREE lodging.
Then you hear traggic stories about these illegals who rape and abuse tourists who to come on holiday here. Its just beyond control, and from a country that 17 miles wide by 5 miles long with a population of 400,000 citizens, we do not need hundreds and hundreds coming in each week, its not possible anymore. We are over crowded.
I get cross as I believe I pay taxes for my government to me support me as a citizien.
Some of these aliens have been her for over 2 years... a great nice long holiday that is.
Id rather pay out an amount monthly and send it to there country to help re-build what they lost, but its impossible for more to come but yet the government lets them in with open arms...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krs
You seem sincerely baffled by what's supposedly going on in your country.
What explanation does your government give you as a reason for its policies?
Don't you think you have a right to ask and that it owes you an explanation?
Im not baffled I'm annoyed.
I get the fact that these aliens need help but when our help is abused it doesn't go down well.
I believe an explanation is owed, but obviously the government I guess does not see it as a problem, otherwise it wouldn't do it.
All I know is that us citizens of this small island are getting very very annoyed and next elections we will prove it.
If they were illegal aliens I suppose it would be lawful to deport them and it would not be ethically wrong if Mexico could receive them and provide for their reentry into Mexican society. Of course other factors apart from legality would need consideration. But barring any other possible relevant factor which should be given precedence, the deportation would not be as inhumane it would be now.Quote:
Originally Posted by wizzkid89
As you said, what makes the deportation cruel right now is that sending them back is tantamount to sending them back into a meat grinder.
Simply put, just because the Mexican ruling class shows inadequate concern for human suffering doesn't justify that we imitate its bad example.
BTW
It's important to keep in mind also that the lawful is not always morally justifiable. Many things considered lawful by governments have been subsequently condemned as crimes against humanity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krs
I understand your annoyance. What I can't understand is that you seem not to know the reasons your government is permitting this to happen. Hasn't the issue been brought into public discussion? Haven't there been protests by concerned citizens? If the problem is as severe as you describe, then one would expect these things to have taken place. You mention elections so I assume you live in a democracy. That means that you have the right to hold your elected representatives accountable for their actions after they are elected. Which makes your description of citizen ignorance of elected representative motives and silence in the face of frustration baffling to me.
BTW
The reason for the successful and increasing illegal immigrant presence here in the USA is not because the government feels that the immigrants need help. It is because our employers find it profitable to take advantage of the cheap labor which the illegal immigrants represent. Could that be the reason why your government is permitting the immigration to continue??
Well actually there is going to be a protest to be held at the beginning of June, which include citizens and ANR ( A New Right ) party, who seems to be aware of the problem more than our actual government.
Yes I do live in a democratic country, which to me is all capitalism.
[QUOTE=Starman]I know this isn't a religious discussion but it does touch on certain principles of behavior which are relevant. Also I don't know whether you are a Christian or not or what your opinion of the scriptures is. In any case, your last statement reminded me of what Jesus said.
Luke 10 (King James Version)
25And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
26He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
27And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
28And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.
29But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?
30And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead.
31And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.
32And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side.
33But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him,
34And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.
35And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee.
36Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?
37And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.
I quote very well a famous parable as told by Christ himself. In fact, when Jesus made the comparisons, he did not compare such Samaritan with another guy who took the victim home. On the contrary, the Samaritan was the best compared with the other two.
We are not against helping ANY type of race, but by giving them the fishing rod and teach them fishing and breeding fish, not by imposing multiculturalism AND at the expense of the citizen, when at the end of the day it's proving obvious that the Maltese is becoming the real victim of the situation.
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