Now that I have gotten your attention... :)

I was just wondering about the divorce questions in this forum and personal experience with friends going through divorce.

Is there a right way to do it?
Everyone marries to stay together "forever", to build families, to make a life.

Then years later, one or the other finds that it is not working anymore
OR the love is gone...

How does one choose what to do, especially when children are involved.
I know the saying goes that children should not be harmed by either partner in their fights during divorce,but is there a way not to involve the kids, when the kids lives are falling apart.

I am sure loving parents will not want to harm the children through divorce and after,but if the marriage is not working out it will be worse for the children if they are in the middle of the tension between their parents even if they are not verbally expressed.

I know kids who have grown up quite well even after the parents divorced,because they kept using the same rules when it came to the kids.And even if both are married,they respect each other before and after divorce.This is rare though.

Divorce... is there a right way to go about dismantling years of building together?Breaking down brick by brick, layers of love mixed with memories,shared sadness and strength,whispered thoughts and imagined fears,births and deaths along the way...

How does someone cope with all this plus the guilt of breaking their kid's hearts?

WOW Firm...

I think, just as all other things in life.. marriage is a job with continued work needing to be done.

In some cases, when one has had nothing but part-time jobs without much responsibility and is comfortable at that - then that tells you a lot about such a person. This type of person does not want or need ties of any type. So my guess is with some couples, the interview went fine, they tried it, and at the end did not like it. Lust and not love was probably the driving factor here and the love just did not follow (as most expect this to happen). Really communicating with someone is not the easiest thing to do either. We talk to people - and we put on great 'acts' for them and with them. But if we don't share our inner being with someone - how are we able to expect the same from them?

There are just too many factors that add up to a divorce, but one thing I'm dead certain about - when children are involved.. NEVER LIE TO YOUR KIDS!! When they ask a question - they are ready for an answer... and if they later come to realize you 'told them a story' to placate them - you are in trouble. So just make sure that the children don't get a 'command performance' from parents that they will eventually see right through.

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/15/15_9_16.gif

Thanks for your thoughts Chery...
And FYI I am not talking about my marriage;).

I agree lying to kids is not a good idea,neither is taking sides and making the other partner the problem or the bad guy.

Dear Firm...

I didn't for a minute assume you were talking about yourself!

I know you posted this question 'in general' and it was just my terminology that was a little off.

I also meant my opinion in the 'general' sense.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chery

Dear Firm...

I didn't for a minute assume you were talking about yourself!

I know you posted this question 'in general' and it was just my terminology that was a little off.

I also meant my opinion in the 'general' sense.

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:D
You always have good insight when it come to these issues.

Hello firm:

People ask us all the time about the right way to break a lease. Uhhhh, there is no right way to break a contract that has no escape clause.

excon

excon,
I am very illiterate when it comes to legal terminology!:(

Hello again, firm:

I'm just saying that a lease, like a marriage doesn't have an escape clause. If it did, THAT would be a good way to end it. But, neither of them do. Therefore, there's no GOOD way to end either of them.

excon

Lesser of two evils then?

What if one parent decided they are done but the other wants to do what ever it takes to fix the marriage and the kids know it. How about that...
What if one person loves and the other doesn't, would it be wise to stick it out?.
I have to say when I first joined this site... I was hellll bent on making it work no matter what. Now that I have seen other peoples situations and dreams shattered... this is not the case anymore.
If it were up to me... I would have to say writing pros and cons down and then going from there. Are the kids affected by being together but living a lie? Are they going to be affected worse if you separate? Are they ever going to understand what happened do they even need too be that close to the business or would you just say hey, this is the way it is, and to make niether look bad we are not going to say reasons for the split. I could go on and on with questions I suppose...

Yes... lesser of two evils then... that is what I came up with... now which one is less..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by startover22

....now which one is less....?

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That is the hardest thing any parent could be asked to choose.
But in the end if a marriage does not work after years of trying to keep it together,
Will the children have fared any better in a marriage held together by duct tape and whatever fix-its available?

Would the children not be in a more healthy environment if the parents are living better lives than the so called "marriage" they are currently in?

Ofen one parent has no choice, lets say one partner just says they are leaving, you can't makethem stay,

Ananova - The world's shortest couple?

"We had to postpone the marriage for three years because both our families objected," he told New Express.

But on October 1, they joined 30 other couples in a group wedding at a park in the city.

They waited to get married longer than most people are married!

I have seen couples who stayed together for several years until one of them passed away and then married again a few years later.

There are ones that work and ones that will never work out.
Most of the ones that do not work out,it is years later and after the kids are born that one or the other spouse realises that they had been living a farce.

Or it had become a farce in the past few months or years.

And the fighting starts either to keep it together or to give up all hope.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by firmbeliever

I have seen couples who stayed together for several years until one of them passed away and then married again a few years later.

There are ones that work and ones that will never work out.
Most of the ones that do not work out,it is years later and after the kids are born that one or the other spouse realises that they had been living a farce.

Or it had become a farce in the past few months or years.

And the fighting starts either to keep it together or to give up all hope.

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My question is now... when do you give up? I guess it is an individual assessment all things considered...

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AskMen.com - Divorce
a slow erosion
A marriage doesn't fail overnight. It wears down gradually and imperceptibly, like the slow widening of canyons. Before you know it, there's an unbridgeable chasm between you and your wife. The signs below signal this erosion that many couples choose to ignore rather than address. They can come from either side of the relationship, but often stem from a difference in behavior of one of you.

Below are 10 classic signs that you may be headed for divorce court. Hope that you're not too late to correct these behaviors and rescue your marriage.

Number 10
You stop going to family gatherings together
Your bratty nephew inhabits the seat beside you for the third consecutive Thanksgiving dinner -- the same seat that used to be reserved for her. Worse still, you make excuses on her behalf. In fact, you hardly go out with your wife at all. Do you ever wonder why?
Number 9 You become indifferent
The efforts you used to put into the relationships have slowly petered away into complacency. You don't ask about each other's day anymore. You don't enjoy the small gestures -- if there are any. You don't kiss her hello or goodbye. You stopped carrying her picture in your wallet, or she's done the same.

Even her company is something you can live without, since when you're both home, you tend to stay in different rooms.
Number 8 You don't have sex anymore
If you still sleep in the same bed, nary an intimate or affectionate word is said. You both sleep apart without touching each other, neither really able to recall the last time you were truly intimate.
Number 7 You don't spend any time together anymore
If you can't remember the last time you two went on vacation together, and it's not because of money or time, something's amiss. Couples in shaky marriages routinely look for substitutes for each other's company. This can take the form of going out with friends exclusively, or even resorting to the diversions of drugs and alcohol as an easy emotion replacement.
Number 6 She starts evaluating the finances more closely
Have you noticed your wife spending less money and poring over bills? Has she shown increased interest in your earnings, debts, savings, and investments? This could be her way of gauging her financial outcome in a potential divorce.

If you avoid going home like the plague and saying "hello" has a way of turning into a fight, you're probably heading for a divorce, but first, find out if you can reconcile your differences

Continued from above article
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Number 5 She seeks her independence
A truly unsatisfied wife will try to distance herself from her husband and decrease her reliance on him. She may do this by taking classes, opening her own bank account, making her own investments, even going as far as adopting her maiden name. This is simply the concrete manifestation of the emotional distance between you.
Number 4 You avoid going home
Has stepping through your front door become an act of labor instead of pleasure? You may find yourself inventing reasons not to go home, such as working late or enjoying an abnormally long happy hour with your mates.

Even at home you look for every possible distraction to avoid dealing with your troubled marriage. If you find yourself spending longer hours in front of the TV or taking up more and more hobbies, you should ask yourself where all that extra free time is coming from.
Number 3 You fight every time you talk
Whenever you exchange words, they're usually unpleasant. You feel like you're repeating the same, tired arguments that never reach any resolution. This may make you feel angry and resentful towards her, further reducing your desire to talk to her. This becomes abundantly clear when you hear news about your wife through other people.

You become so angry that outbursts are common between you two. To you, she just can't do anything right anymore, and you feel all your actions are unfairly scrutinized by her. The little quirks you two used to tolerate in each other are the most potent irritants you know.
Number 2 You're having an affair
When you jumped over the fence for sexual satisfaction it should have been clear the situation back home wasn't stellar. Whether you previously had an affair or are considering one, you should ask yourself why. If you know your wife is having one, it's time to face the facts and address them.
Number 1 The relationship is abusive
The respect you had for each other is gone and all that's left is mutual abuse, be it through insults or even physical aggression. Violence is the only way through which you communicate, and you may go as far as resurrecting past pains just to hurt each other. Don't just wait for things to simmer down on their own here.

no laughing matter
Divorce is a serious issue. It's the culmination of realizing that you made a very wrong decision. A large chunk of your life is spent dealing with pain, not to mention possible financial ruin.

But giving up is the easy way out. Even if divorce seems like a good idea, try as hard as you can to work out your differences. A plethora of resources exist to salvage a marriage, such as couples counseling. You could even separate to re-evaluate the marriage before rushing ahead to alimony.

In the end, it comes down to remembering the reason why you fell in love in the first place, letting it resurface, and giving it space to thrive.
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Wow... Firmy you really know how to get info... don't you?

All googled and nothing to do with my intelligence;)

But on a serious note,the following stood out to me from the whole article as being the best alternative to divorce.

"separate to re-evaluate the marriage before rushing ahead to alimony.

In the end, it comes down to remembering the reason why you fell in love in the first place, letting it resurface, and giving it space to thrive."

I was married for twenty three years and I do not consider the marriage as one down the drain. It had it's very good times and it's very horrible times and we used to try to make it all work out because we believed that divorce was not the option. I cannot pinpoint a definite time when all that changed. Have to say that during my Father's battle with cancer, my husband was not supportive in any degree. Guess that told me a great deal right there. That possibly my husband had never really been there when I needed him most. In 1986, when I was diagnosed with uterine cancer and needed surgery, all he could think of how my cancer and consequential surgery would affect his sex life. But I waded through that and went on with our life.

Yet I learned a great deal throughout our marriage. Valuable lessons in trust, integrity, honesty, communication, bonding, unconditional love, just to name a few things. Guess I would not take all that back. When I left the marriage, the Judge ordered a year of separation before he would rule on the divorce. We had to go to family counseling. I think we had about six sessions together but I continued on my own for another three months. During the separation I found out about his girlfriends (he had started seeing them way before the separation). So what was there left to defend or save? Nada.

Thank you for sharing Shy.
I admire you for being positive about your experience, I am sure it takes hard work to be that way after all your experiences.

I did not choose the name of my thread to make the hardwork we put into our marriages as something down the drain,but I needed people's attention on this thread.:)

And like your experience I hope someone who reads it will learn something from it.

Well, some people do say that all their hard work went down the drain, when a marriage dissolves. One of my neighbors has been divorced for over 20 years now and still spits venom when she talks about her ex. I don't love my ex and would not nominate him for any good awards but he is the Father to our children and for that I do give him a "modicum" of respect. Lol.

Shy,
I love the way you think.
Why hold a grudge for a lifetime when all it will do is eat us us up from the insides and make us and our children miserable.
Even if you did not respect at least showing something like it, I am sure is better than the spitting venom type;)

Here is an interesting article I found.

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http://www.divorcehelp.com/rr/rr01.html
The “good” divorce: A model to follow
by Ed Sherman
(adapted from Practical Divorce Solutions)

Experience and academic studies have helped us identify the basic elements of a successful divorce. “Successful,” as used here, means completing the process of emotional separation, reaching a new center of balance as a single person, maintaining the welfare of your children, and establishing healthy attitudes toward yourself, your ex-spouse, and your past marriage.

Absence of conflict is not part of the ideal divorce. A degree of anger and conflict is natural, useful, even constructive. It helps to break the bonds of attachment and old patterns of relationship; it makes you think and reflect; it makes you change. But excessive and destructive conflict requires special treatment. The discussion of severe conflict and how to deal with it is in Lesson 7 of A Short Divorce Course.

Apart from peace of mind, growth and other human values, there are very practical advantages to struggling as hard as you can to make your divorce better. The closer you can get to the ideals discussed below, the better it will be for you and your family:


You will ease tensions and conflict

You will have a far greater chance for compliance with terms of agreements

You will save thousands in legal costs

If you have children, you will greatly improve co-parenting and cooperation


Elements of a successful divorce:
Mutuality. Lack of mutual sharing in the decision to divorce is a primary cause of conflict in the divorce and post-divorce periods. In an ideal divorce, the decision is arrived at together. This does not mean that one spouse may not be sadder or more distressed than the other, but that both come to accept divorce as the best thing under the circumstances. The spouses should be mutually active in negotiating terms and in co-parenting. The most stable settlements occur when both spouses take an active role in the negotiations, not simply leaving it to a lawyer. A good divorce is an actively mutual enterprise.

Attitude. Each spouse should end up with a balanced view of the other spouse and of the marriage experience. There should be a sense of emotional and spiritual closure. You should be free of any lingering feeling of blame, guilt or failure. You want to create increased self-understanding, the ability to form healthy new intimate relationships, and a sense of self-confidence.

Children. In an ideal divorce, injury to children is minimized, primarily through maintaining good co-parenting relations. Children can literally be destroyed by fighting between their parents, so it is very important that parents be able to work together for the well-being of their children. When not resolved, conflict can go on for years, even after the legal divorce is over. Children must be free of the feeling that loving one parent is a betrayal of the other. They must be free of the thought that they are the cause of the divorce.

Trying to create the ideal divorce is like any other ideal you try to achieve, like ideal health or achievement in some sport. Your goals are something you work toward, but you don't want to beat yourself up every time you fall short. Just try your best. The closer you can get, the better and smoother your divorce will go, and the better your future will be.
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That is a very good article. Yes, I had my anger (for longer than I perhaps should have) and tried hard to make a smooth transition. But it was far from ideal. Times I wanted revenge. I think I was angry that he bounced right back and remarried in a very short time. Why should I have cared? But I did. Then I found out I got the last laugh after all, which is truly the best laugh.

Shy,
I am so glad you have come this far through sheer hard work and having the last laugh... :)

Here is another article which I think has some good warning signs-
Marriage Mayday: Seven Signs That You're Headed for Divorce

And I found this quiz, though it says it is a fun quiz, I think it helps put things into perspective.
Quiz: Relationships Quizzes & Tests: Are you getting joy in your relationship?