I deliberately placed this in Member Discussions because I do not want people giving "reddies" or "greenies"

What I would like is a thoughtful, mature discussion. No name calling, please. :)

I see so many people post that if someone does not want to raise a child, she should choose adoption rather than abortion. Usually these thoughts are voiced in threads about teenage pregnancy, or as we have seen a lot of recently, threads about how wrong abortion is.

What I would like to know from these people is this:

What do you really know about adoption?

Seriously--don't do research on the web, don't link me a bunch of threads. I want to know what you, personally, know about adoption, and why you think it's such a great choice.

A lot of you know my story and opinions on this already, and I probably will chime in on this thread--but I've been thinking about this for a while and would seriously like to know what the average person knows about adoption, or why they have the opinions about it that they do.

The only thing I know about adoption is my neighbor has 2 adopted children. She was unable to conceive and is very happy that she was able to adopt. I also used to walk with an elderly lady and she had an adopted son. Personally, I would encourage my children to adopt if they chose to, my feeling is it takes more than common blood to make a family. On the other hand, I am sure that not every adoption has a happy ending. My opinion is that it is a personal decision for the person carrying the fetus to decide to abort or see the pregnancy through. To the op I do not know your story, so my opinion is not based upon anything I have read about you.

I am adopted and I have one son who I adopted, I think it is a wonderful thing and a great gift to give a child, there are extremely long waiting lists for young children and infants, so long many look at over seas adoption and now scams and fraud has over ran private adoption areas.

My childless bil and his wife began adopting when they were close to age 40. Agencies refused to consider such an old couple, so they were able to adopt privately. Both daughters were adopted at the age of several days, three years apart. Many schoolchildren and their parents thought my bil and his wife were their daughters' grandparents, not their parents. The adoptions were open but there was little contact with the birth mothers who wanted to get on with their lives.

Both daughters (who always knew they were adopted) got pregnant during their late teens but decided not to give up their babies or have abortions. They are raising them now as single moms.

As far as a pregnant woman "making a choice," I guess she would have to be the one to decide. There are social services in place to support keeping one's baby, but it still is a tough choice and hard life to raise a child as a single parent. Since I believe human life begins at conception, I myself would not get an abortion, but I won't condemn a woman who does. As for giving up a baby for adoption, that is probably one of the toughest things anyone can do. For me, having been pregnant twice, it would be like ripping my soul away.

I don't know your story, and I will probably add more to this thread as it develops.

I always would like to see responsible living rather than trying to decide to abort a baby or not after they are conceived.

But adoption is a good way to help a child in need if you think you are up for it.
There are some who do an excellent job,like my adopted parents.

Don't get me wrong my parents did not give me up, my father was old and very ill and he gave me to his niece to look after me and make a lady of me,a week later he passed away.
Since the age of 8 I have been with this family and I am the only daughter they have. I keep in touch with my mother and her family and we all are one big extended family.
As legal adoption is not allowed in Islam(due to the fact that if names are changed a person might unknowingly get married to their own siblings and inheritance matters etc), I keep my own name and I have a biological younger brother.

Psychologists I have met during my working years will not believe I grew up in an adopted family, because they believe that being relocated and being away from my family will have adversely affected me.Just shows that if a family could provide a balanced life for adopted children most will grow up healthy adults.

I still think responsible living is the best way to go, especially for teenagers who think they could be single moms(some are),but it is a hard life even for married couples, I cannot imagine how much harder it would be for single mothers.
Especially in the Western countries as most live alone,unlike in Asian countries where aunts,uncles and grandparents are around to lend a helping hand.

I met a girl in school when I was 12 years old and we became good friends really quickly. She had been from one foster home to another her whole life. She told me about how some were really great families and others where she would be really scared and would receive punishment for any little thing. I soon found out she was being treated for some type of cancer. We were always together at school and after school when she wasn't in the hospital or at the doctor's office. We had about a year and a half together, then one day she didn't show up for school. The next week I got a letter from her saying that she had been moved across state because her previous foster family was moving out of state or something like that. We stayed in touch for maybe another year, and when my family moved, we completely lost contact. To this day I have no idea if she was ever adopted. That is the only adoption situation I have encountered personally. Adoption can be wonderful, but sadly enough there was no one waiting in line to adopt my sick teenage friend.

I think you know my thoughts on this. I can not say what I would do if ever put into a situation where I would need to choose. I say to myself, I would never get an abortion, personally, but I know too many people who also said that, and did. Situations are all different. As I said in another thread, there are many faces to both adoption and abortion. I will never say one is better or more humane or easier than the other.

It is calming to us to think that there is this wonderful world out there for adoptive children, one where they are always loved and always happy and they find the perfect mom and dad, and in many cases, it is that way, but in many cases it is not. We still live in a very discriminative world... and it is far more than just black and white anymore... we desire perfection. If the child is not normal, not complete, socially inept, developmentally behind, strangely proportioned, whatever... they will on average never find their family. There is no way to know... many choose this because they are told that it is better for them and for the child, but ultimately, it is just as painful for the mother (sometimes more so) and not always best for the child, it all comes down to comforting "us"

On the other side, it helps us to think that the child in an abortion is not "real" and unable to survive, and in many cases this is true... but some cases it isn't true. But it helps us to feel less guilty about something like this when we can say that. You can come on here and tell people all the horror stories from the clinics, and show all the horribly graphic images, that Im fairly sure we have all seen, and it will still be the same thing... No one is numb to abortion. We all know what is involved... people aren't heartless killers or selfish... they are making the choice that is best for them... most of them have really weighed their options, some are actually taking the child's best interest at heart... it is just as hard as adoption would be, they feel the loss and the pain, and anyone who says differently, could never know until they have experienced it themselves...

We can debate back and forth all day about which is better, less hurtful, more humane, etc... but at the end of the day it doesn't matter. I am pro-choice. I believe in informing people of their options and letting them make the best decision in their circumstances, not the best decision for society. WE are human - we're not numb to pain. I will not sugar coat things to make it more comfortable for others to grasp one side or the other. If you are in this situation, you are stuck between a rock and a hard place, and no one has any right to tell you what you should do.

THERE ARE SO MANY PEOPLE THAT DON'T HAVE THE ABILITY TO CONCIEVE CHILDREN, SO THEY HAVE/ARE GIVEN THE OPPURTUNITY TO ADOPT THE CHILD THEY WANT TO CARE AND LOVE. THEY WON'T HAVE THAT OPPURTUNITY IF WOMEN HAVE ABORTIONS. NOW YOU WANT TO KNOW WHAT ABOUT ADAOPTION, WHAT DO WE REALLY KNOW ABOUT IT, I KNOW IF IT WASN'T FOR LEGAL ADOPTION I WOULDN'T BE WITH THE PERSON THAT I CALL MY DAD. I THINK I KNOW WHAT YOU ARE GETTING AT, SOME KIDS ARE NOT ADOPTED RIGHT AWAY AND HAVE TO LIVE IN GROUP HOMES, BUT THEY ARE STILL TAKEN CARE OF. SOME KIDS OUT THERE HAVE MENTAL DISTURBANCES EVEN BECAUSE OF THIS ISSUE, BUT THAT'S NOT A REASON TO TRY TO RATIONALIZE ABORTION, BECAUSE IN MORE INSTANCES THAN 1 IN 20 KIDS OUT THERE, ADOPTION HAPPENS MUCH MORE OFTEN. Some children have "problems" reguardless of the situation, at least even in adoption they have people that can try to give them the help they need, becasue the state takes care of these children. IM NOT SURE IF JUSTIFING ABORTION IS WHAT YOU ARE TRYING TO DO BUT I AM SURE THAT YOU KNOW A BABIES HEART STARTS BEATING 18-25 DAYS AFTER CONCEPTION, BRAIN WAveS AFTER A LITTLE OVER A MONTH, SHE SQUINTS, SWALLOWS AND CAN MAKE A FIST BETWEEN 11-12 WEEKS, HAS FINGERPRINTS, CAN KICK, SUCKS HER THUMB, AND COULD FIT COMFORTABLY IN THE PALM OF YOUR HAND... EVERYONE IS ENTITILED TO THEIR OWN BELIEFS AND THEIR OWN DESICIONS CONCERNING THEIR OWN BODIES, NOT EVERYONE HAS TO AGREE WITH IT, SO THEY SHOULD KEEP IT TO THEMSELVES IF THEY DON'T WANT TO HERE BIAS OPINIONS. ADOPTION IS GIVING A CHILD A SECOND CHANCE AT LIFE, AN OBVIOUSLY BETTER LIFE THAT THE BIOLOGICAL MOTHER WOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO GIVE. WITHOUT THE CHOICE FOR MOTHERS TO PUT CHILDREN UP FOR ADOPTION IT WOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE TO WATCH THE NEWS, THERE'S ALREADY ENOUGH HORRIBLE PEOPLE THROWING BABIES HERE AND THERE, IT BREAKS MY HEART, HOW COULD YOU ARGU THE POINT OF ADOPTION KNOWING WHAT ELSE THESE CHILDREN WOULD BE PUT THROUGH.
I am only 21 years old, I am not the smartest person i in the world, and I am no expert, but I am a mother and this is purely my opinion, I in no way want to offend anyone... ~ ya'll have a great Day~

Actually... I wasn't trying to turn this into an abortion debate.

What I am trying to do is see how people actually view adoption.

I'm finding out more and more that most people only have the media view of adoption- that it's better than abortion, but somehow not as good as having your own child. You seem to only hear about those unable to conceive as adopting, and a million other stereotypes.

I'd love to hear from members of the triad on their real feelings about it, and the joys and frustrations they've gone through--but really, most people aren't involved in the adoption triad in any way, and I was just wondering how they see the aspects of adoption--what do you think of adopted people? What are your perceptions of those adopting? How do you see birthparents?

The only reason I brought abortion into it at all is that it seems as though most people who are very anti-choice bring up adoption "if you don't want your child", and I feel that most of them don't have a clue about what adoption is about, from any angle. It's just another "out" for them, the alternative to parenting if you don't "want" you child.

So... I'm curious as to what people really think, and what they actually know about the adoption process.

My best friend gave a child up for adoption. Her child is just a little older than one of my own. She was young, unmarried and had drug and alcohol problems at the time. She was also raised Roman Catholic and was heavily influenced by her parents to give him up.

She knows that she did the right thing because she was in such a bad place when she had him, but she also regrets what could have been. To make matters worse, after she got clean and sober and found the man of her dreams and they married she discovered she was unable to conceive. They did the whole invitro thing at a high cost both emotionally and financially to no avail. The ironic thing is that they have looked into adopting, but stopped pursuing it because they believe they will be too old to look after an infant since the process is so long.

I don't believe that because an individual gestated a baby or was the one that provided the sperm for fertilization automatically makes you a parent. The person that is there for all the boo-boos, goes to PTA, baseball games, Dr's appointments, that cares about instilling values and character into the child is the parent.

I don't look at an individual that was adopted any differently that I do anyone else. I admire parents that are willing to adopt because they go through so much just to share their lives with a child.

I am not anywhere near the western world and in the region I live in it is very rare to have adoption cases, as it is the family like aunts,uncles grandparents who look after the children who are either born out of wedlock or the parents have died.
Asian region normally have extended families.

Closest country I have seen adoption cases is in India where children are abandoned in shelters and the missionaries/care givers look after them until they are adopted or a person sponsers them(like provide financial aid for them,as in school fees,books,etc).

OR mentally disabled women are raped and the child is left in the governments care or the parents are too poor to look after their already large family.
I cannot comment on the adoption system in the West except what I hear from the media as you synnen said, or it is from fiction I have read.

From what I know of adoption, I think it makes a difference to an adopted person to know the birth parents from the beginning in order for the person to feel complete.
From my view some adopted parents are way better for the child than their own parents who could not have helped them in many ways specially those in financial difficulties and/or in addictions of any sort.

I know nothing from experience. In my opinion, I think adoption is a wonderful way to show the love in your heart, whether you are the one adopting or the one adopting out. That child just won life! What is better than that? And Syn, I think it takes a strong soul to do both! Hugs, Start

I'm an adoptive mom of a wonderful and beautiful little boy. I have always been prochoice on the issue of abortion. I always new that I personally could not abort a child, regardless the situation. However, I did not feel I could judge someone else that chose to abort. I could rant and rave at them not to do it, but I would not be the one around to raise that child.

Having said that, because my husband and I have not be blessed with a biological child, we turned to adoption. We could not afford to try infertility treatments and then adoption if it was found that we could not have a baby on our own. Having a cousin that was adopted, I knew that my family would not treat my adopted child any differently then a biological child. My cousin is my cousin, blood or not.

We researched and considered all forms of adoption, domestic versus international. We chose domestic with an agency that only handles open adoptions. For us, it was important for us to have that relationship with the birthfamily providing it didn't disrupt our child's life. We have a great and open relationship with the birthmother and her family.

My husband and I are really wanting to adopt one or more children, however now that I'm a stay at home mom, we are really trapped or strapped to finance it. It's a blessing that the government will give you the $10K tax credit. I just pray and look to God for a our path to our family. If He chooses that we only have one son, we will except that.

I have to be honest and say that it hurts my heart when I see young teenage girls with babies and I think, why God? Why them and not me? Going to my nephews high school basketball games and seeing cheerleaders on the sidelines with their baby dressed up in little matching outfits in the stands, holding them in between cheers. God has a reason. He did bring our son to us. I need to trust in Him. It can just be difficult at times.

A Birthmother's View of Adoption Reform by Heather Lowe

This is an interesting website, that actually states a lot of MY views on adoption, especially from the point of view of a birthmom.

I'd love to have discussion on it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by collinsmom

it hurts my heart when I see young teenage girls with babies and I think, why God? Why them and not me?

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God knew you have an especially big heart, big enough to accept and love a child that is not from your own body.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

God knew you have an especially big heart, big enough to accept and love a child that is not from your own body.

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See... this is exactly the kind of adoption sentiment that drives me crazy.

So--did her child's natural parents have especially SMALL hearts, to be able to give the child of their own body away? That's what you're implying, here!

I understand that you're trying to comfort someone who has gone through the loss and grief of infertility, but that statement seems so skewed to me.

I, too, am facing infertility, now that I'm older. I, too, want to scream that it's not fair that so many young girls get pregnant and I can't --ESPECIALLY since I was one of those girls, and I didn't keep my child--I gave her to parents "with especially big hearts, who could not raise a child of their own bodies".

WG--I'm not trying to attack you here. I've liked and respected your opinions on various things for a while now. It just bothers me like mad that statements like yours are made to adopting parents, while first parents hear "you did the best thing for your child, that must have been so hard!" on the one hand, and on the other side of that SAME person's mouth comes the sentiment "I could NEVER have done it--I love my children too much".

I'm sorry---just frustrated about the whole thing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Synnen

So--did her child's natural parents have especially SMALL hearts, to be able to give the child of their own body away? That's what you're implying, here!

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If the birth mother had posted, I would have told her she has a big heart for loving her child enough to give it a home with two parents who are financially secure and have a stable life.

I would never have been allowed to keep a child as a single mom. My mother made sure I understood that. I wouldn't have had the support--and would have been a disaster as a single mother.

What I have observed first-hand about adoption and keeping one's baby -- My bil and his wife adopted two little girl babies three years apart and did a lousy job of raising them (observed by the rest of the family since the beginning). One girl, at 17, got pregnant to get back at her dad for something. She was headed for college and a career as a child psychologist. She kept her baby and finally finished high school a year later than she would have otherwise. The older sister flat out said she was jealous of all the attention and wanted a baby too. She got pregnant by someone (she doesn't know which guy it was) and kept her baby. My bil and his wife (the grandparents) are retired now and take care of the babies while their daughters work at low-paying jobs.

I tossed and turned last night over this abortion/adoption question and it finally hit me. Who's the important person in this whole deal? The birth mother? The adoptive mother? The most important person in this whole deal is the child. Each birth mom has to make that very difficult decision: keeping the child or giving the child up for adoption--so that that child has a loving home and is physically, mentally, and emotionally nourished and cared for.

Which we do.

I don't know any birthmothers in recent years that gave their child away in shame and out of an idea to hide and forget the whole thing.

It's always a gift of love to our children--we give our children parents, not adoptive parents children, which is rather a huge difference when you think about it.

My husband and I talked for a couple of hours last night about this too. He says I have unrealistic expectations of society about adoption.

I am well aware that it's about the children--but even the phrases that people use about adoption sometimes seem like an attack. Adoptive parents are the "real" parents--which would make birthparents what? Fake parents? Imaginary parents? We don't deny that the adoptive parents are the ones that the child should call mom and dad, and they're the ones the child should be more attached to, and love. We're aware that we're not parents in the normal sense of the word. But--would you call a woman who had a child who died as a toddler or infant and never had more children a "fake" mother? Would you ever DREAM of telling her that she was never a "real" mother because her child didn't grow to adulthood with her?

People expect birthparents to hand over their babies, walk away, and forget about it. Of course, they acknowledge that birthparents loved their babies, and made "the best decision possible" (how they know what was best for me or my child is beyond me sometimes, but oh well) and we "did the right thing" and "you made some couple unable to have children soooooo happy!".

But--they expect you to forget and to "get over it". They can't understand how you could still be dealing with it 5 or 10 or 20 years later. They don't understand the need to know about your child, the ache that's a missing part of you forever. Grieving in an adoption situation is very close to grieving a dead child--but people don't see that, or don't want to hear about it, because, after all, you made that choice. You CHOSE to give your baby away, so get over it already and stop being so sad about it.

Gah, I'm not trying to attack anyone here. I'm just frustrated by the views on adoption, and how the adoptive family is so often celebrated, and birthparents so often forgotten, or lied to, thought to be interfering when they just want what the adoptive parents promised before they signed the papers.

I guess I'm just so militant because I just had a friend whose adoption plan was closed on her--the adoptive parents simply disappeared, and left no forwarding address for the birthmom to contact them, after promising pictures, and letters and visits in order to get her child.

I'd just like to see some reform to adoption where the adoptive parents didn't have all of the power.

I only wonder if all families would be able to have an open adoption. I wonder if my husband would be able to have the birth mom involved, I would be able to but it just goes to show that some people can hadle certain things and others can't. Doesn't make them any worse that the other, it is just how it is. I wonder though that when the child does turn 18, if all info can be opened? Unless the birthmother says she doesn't want that. Ok so now we go onto the fact that we all have a change of heart and maybe at the beginning she didn't want that, but at the end she did. There are so many different people and different ways a child will take being adopted, so I am not sure one set of rules and laws can apply. I hope I don't sound too confusing.
As far as the child is concerned, well that is why there is adoption in the first place. Thank goodness!
And, to listen to biased opinions on adoption and abortion, well, we can never get away from that, as we all have our opinions and we always will.
It is hard on the birthmom and the child, so that is part of the question in the decision making process. The birthmother has to decide on all of the pros and cons.
I commend any birthmother for letting her child have a good LIFEand I commend any child who gets through it!


EDIT::::::::::::
Synnen, I agree that the birthmoms are forgotten, my friend as well was left without warning and never got to see her son after he turned 8. She goes through pain every day thinking that she was going tobe able to be a part, but the adoptive parents weren't so honest. That is what I mean when I say we all change our minds, so honestly it is hard to set anything into stone in adoption. Unless you are positivly sure you can handle it. :)


EDIT:::::::
All right, so when we talkabout adoption, it still runs through peoples heads in a negative way, I have to agree with you on that for sure. The first though is normally, poor kid, how could a mother do that. Or wow, you guys are Heroes for saving that poor kid. I totally know what you are saying... I suppose those are the close minded idiots, we all seem to know a few!

I have adopted my wife's three, I guess I should say our three.


More later - got to go to bed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Synnen

Adoptive parents are the "real" parents--which would make birthparents what? Fake parents? Imaginary parents? We don't deny that the adoptive parents are the ones that the child should call mom and dad, and they're the ones the child should be more attached to, and love.

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My mil, the grandmother of her son's two adopted daughters whom I mentioned in an earlier post, always named my and her daughter's sons as her "real" grandchildren. She took only the three "real" grandchildren on outings. If the two girls misbehaved, it was because of "bad seed." If she was "corrected" or disagreed with, she just giggled.

So you see, it can work the other way too, unfortunately.

I met my wife when she was 22 and the girls had just turned 4 and 5 and my son was 2 and a half. Yes, she was 19 when she found out she was pregnant with him. She would tell you that despite being divorced and the biological kicking her out that she decided to have our son.

I'm glad she made that choice. My daughters are wonderful but from my ethnic background, boys are more favored.

The biological never voluntarily paid child supporrt, my wife had to have court order to have wages garnished. The amount was little because he could never keep a job. Besides that he never visited his biologicals, not even calls. After more than a year of no contact , child support is considered 'contact' in this particular jurisdiction, we went through the adoption process. He stated he would never give up his 'rights,' but when the court date came up, he never showed up.

I do not have biological children of my own. These are my children.

I'm just frustrated by the views on adoption, and how the adoptive family is so often celebrated, and birthparents so often forgotten, or lied to, thought to be interfering when they just want what the adoptive parents promised before they signed the papers.

I guess I'm just so militant because I just had a friend whose adoption plan was closed on her--the adoptive parents simply disappeared, and left no forwarding address for the birthmom to contact them, after promising pictures, and letters and visits in order to get her child.

I'd just like to see some reform to adoption where the adoptive parents didn't have all of the power.[/QUOTE]

Synnen:
Why shouldn't the adoptive family be celebrated. Believe me, we went through so much to get to the point where we could finally bring home a child. I went through so much pain of not only infertility, but miscarriages and people looking at me and judging me because we could not have a baby. I put my body through so much with all of the picking, sticking, proding to only be told "we don't know why you can't get pregnant. It might only be stress. Go home and relax."

I have to tell you that my feelings on our adoption are one of overwhelming joy and guilt. The day we went home with our son was the biggest rollercoaster of emotions I have ever dealt with. One side of me was so happy that we finally had our child, but other side was how can I take this baby seeing what it was doing to our birthmom and birthfamily. I've never cried and felt so much grief in my life. You think it gets easier.. NO! We are in contact with our birthmother and family. We have a wonderful time together, but when it's time to go home, all of the emotions of guilt and their sadness comes flooding back. However, it about our son. We do it for him.

Your statement about reform to take away "all the power" from adoptive parents... they scares the heck out of me... what do you mean by that?

There should be individual plans for each adoption and if someone breaks the contract there should be lawful action taken.

Collinsmom:

Right now, the vast majority of adoption agencies are paid ONLY by the adoptive family. Guess who their first loyalty and priority goes to?

There are only 2 states that have laws mandating that adoption contracts be honored. That means that in 48 states, the adoptive parents can lie through their teeth to get their hands on a baby, and then walk away, forgetting that the only reason THEY were picked, out of the thousands of perspective adoptive parents out there, was because of what they agreed to give the birthparents.

Yeah, birthparents have the right to choose adoption or not, but once they sign those relinquishment papers, they're walking on thin ice and hope the rest of their lives.

And yeah---I know how hard adoptive parents have it, too. I'm infertile now. Some 25% of birthmothers suffer from "inexplicable infertility". In other words--nothing is wrong with me, but I can't get pregnant. We've been trying for 7 years, with one miscarriage in there. I KNOW how people look at you, and judge you, and ask the rudest questions about your lack of children. I know about the comments people make that cut like a knife, and they have no idea that what they've said is wrong ("well, YOU don't have kids, you couldn't understand" and "It's so much easier for YOU to do such-and-such because you don't have to worry about kids").

I'm just so tired of "choose adoption not abortion" billboards. I'm sick of seeing cards you can give to adoptive parents when they become parents, and pendants and jewelry celebrating the adoptive family--with NOTHING similar for birth parents. I would LOVE to get a card for Mother's Day that actually addresses the fact that I'm a mother. I'd like to see billboards that, instead of saying "Abortion stops a beating heart!" say "Thank you to the millions of birthmothers that have completed families".

I agree with Start that every adoption plan should be individual, since only the people involved know what they can and can not do for the next 18 years.

But--what lawful action can possibly be taken? Take the kids away? That doesn't help the kid at ALL, it just makes them confused. Fines? That just takes money away from taking care of the kids. The ONLY punishment I can come up with that would be just is taking away any and all adoptive rights from the parents who renege--as in, they could never adopt again. I'd LOVE it to be that they can't have ANY more children, but that's just salt on the wound, really.

I guess, really, what I'd like in the end is acknowledment by society. Adoptive parents are acknowledged every time someone tells them what great kids they have, every time their child says "I love you", every time they attend a special event as the parents of their child.

Birthparents are acknowledged by their A-families quite often--but seldom by ANYONE else. There is a Birthmother's Day--usually noted only by birthmothers. But--every time someone asks me if I have kids--how do I answer? For all of the improvements in adoption for the last 20 years, people still do not TALK about adoption--with EITHER set of parents, really. People are very uncomfortable when I talk about placing my child for adoption. They have NO idea what to say. Why is it somehow "bad" for me to talk about my child, just because she's not MY child? I always feel like people think that placing a child for adoption is still like it was in the 50s---you just don't talk about it, you forget it happened, move along, nothing to see here.

Bah, I don't really know how to express my thoughts on this well tonight. I hope you get the idea, though.

Syn, you're a good writer. Get the word out in print. Are there non-profits and support groups and other organizations for the birthparents? They might have suggestions for writing about this. Even a magazine like Reader's Digest might be interested in this subject. (I've never seen it mentioned there.) You have it mostly written in this thread. Get the word out about what it means to be a birthparent who has given up a child for adoption!

I had no idea that there were only two states that enforce adoptive laws! Holy Crap, that is just wrong. I agree with Wondergirl, you are a lovely writer, you have a great gift in expressing your views. And your facts. Synn, since you are so great at writing, maybe we can get a copy of this post and send it to appropriate people to start setting guidelines and rules. I will be happy to write something and backyou up... I bet we could even start a petition, there are many people on this site that have adopted and that are birthparents.
What do you think? Too far fetched? I don't think so.
I have to add, that Jesse, I hate calling him a foster boy, but he is. He has been living here for over four months. He has been in and out of the system for 11 years, more than 20 homes, and he is only 14 years old. We are the first Foster parents to let him have full contact with his mother, aunt, cousins, sister, friends, and other family. I know it is different, but it makes a big difference to have that security, especially if they know about birthmom, or family. It is only natural for the blood to run through Jesse, no matter how wonderful we are to him or how much we do for him, his mom is his mom. So woth that being said, I will do what I can to help. Hugs!

Hmmm... I want to correct a misconception that I'm not sure if I started or not.

ALL states enforce adoption laws.

Only 2 states (Minnesota and California) allow there to be LEGAL contracts between the birthfamily and the adoptive family.

Most states see those contracts as being too close to 'baby selling" and will not allow them.

I totally misunderstood. Sorry! Tell me then, does the money exchange in adoptions? If so then it would be normal to have a contract.

I think they "the sneaky law makers" can figure out how to word it so it makes plenty sense, maybe that is what we need to be working towards!

Money is NEVER paid to birth parents. Not EVER.

Adoptive parents pay adoption agencies (if it's an agency adoption) or lawyers (if it's a private adoption). They are generally responsible for the medical bills of the pregnancy, childbirth, hospital stays, and any neo-natal care that is needed. They're also, depending on the state, responsible for the foster care that is involved in the first part of the baby's life. Usually they pay ALL legal fees.

Birthmothers can receive gifts from adoptive parents--as long as it is NOT in the form of money. In other words--they can take her into their home and pay the day to day bills of a pregnancy, along with maternity clothes, and gifts like jewelry or figurines or picture frames or whatever--but they can NOT give her money. Giving her money is considered to be buying her baby, and that is not legal anywhere in the US.

I'm not a lawyer--I don't know the absolute laws on this, so if I'm wrong, and someone can cite where, please let me know. But--that's how it's always been explained to me, both at the time of my daughter's adoption, and in the involvement I've had in the adoption community off and on for the last 15 years.

Technically, Start, what happens is not really a legal thing. I mean, legally the birth parents have to sign away their parental rights to clear the way for an adoption. At that point, the children become wards of the state until the adoptive parents sign the papers that legally adopt the children. If for some reason in that in between phase, the state finds that the adoptive parents should not adopt, for whatever reason, the state can then give those children in adoption to whoever they want. Usually, though, they honor the birthparents' wishes.

There is generally a waiting period between those 2 dates, though the adoptive parents generally take custody right after the relinquishment papers are signed. Some states have a grace period where the birthmom can change her mind, some states don't. If you are having ANY doubts, you are urged to NOT sign those papers. You're asked over and over and over again if you understand what you're signing away (and you do---but you don't. How can you possibly really understand it?). You're asked over and over and over again if someone else is coercing you into signing your rights away. Coercion, however, takes many forms, most of which are not obvious, but that's a different subject. That's why I get so angry at those birthmoms who cry "foul" when really they just changed their minds later and just want their baby back. You don't get to sign those papers without at least 5 different people asking you, under oath, if you know what you're doing.

So... since the child, even in a private adoption, isn't going directly from one set of parents to another, since the state is in the middle there, there really isn't a contract between one set of parents and the other--each is, in essence, signing a contract with the state.

My adoption story took place in Wisconsin, so I can't tell you how the states that allow contracts between the parents work, really. I just know that they are legal, and enforceable. I don't know if what happens is that the state goes after the offender breaking the contract and forces them to do whatever they were supposed to (by supervising visits, or demanding pictures be sent, or whatever), or if there is a different penalty entirely.

That's something I would have to research.

Wow, Synnen, thank you for all of the info. I am thinking even harder on this subject. I hope to talk about this a little more with you. I find it interesting how hard it is to be any one of the involved people, the child, birthmother, and adoptive parent, I just see a circle of pain and it hurts, even from us "outsiders" to see you all go through this. There are wonderful stories and there are terrible stories of adoptions. My grandmother, well, she met one of her brothers when she was 70. Just think being 70 and finally finding a brother that got adopted out, it was a wonder, but she went through a lot of pain and I am sure he did too. Not knowing, not being able to know at that, this day and age there just has to be something they can do, that we could do. :) I know you know this, but not everyone only thinks of the adoptive parents, my grandmother and I have talked long and hard about what her mother must have felt, especially back then. I think we have come a long way, but obviously not far enough! Hugs, Start

I personally disapprove of closed adoption simply because I am currently experiencing it. I can’t find my birth parents names at all and it is very frustrating. Although I do believe that adoption is a good thing. I just don’t think a closed adoption is fair to the child. In a closed adoption all the papers are sealed, the adoptive and birth parents don’t even have to meet. I was born in one city but my birth certificate says a completely different city. The only thing I have to remember my birth mother by is a little doll.
I’m sorry I sound like a wet blanket
Anyway I believe open adoptions are much better than closed adoptions simply because it allows the birth mother to stay in contact with the adoptive parents.

I can only give my thoughts based on my experience. I was adopted by a loving family when still a baby and although it was an open adoption, have found it harder to track my birth parents than it is to get my 8 year old to admit when he is wrong! It has taken me 8 or so years to try and come up with anything solid but because my birth mother put false details of her name and family contacts on the papers, I have no real leads. I am however grateful for my adoption because I know I was raised in a healthy, solid family environment with immediate and extended family who treated me no different even though I am of a totally different race. I'm sure if I had been aborted, the whole world would have been thrown into complete disarray! :D
So I know that adoption can leave one feeling confused (especially for the adoptee), frustrated, rejected, yet at the same time, relieved (to know one possibly had a better start in life), loved, priviledged, accepted. Bear in mind these things are personal only to me.
If you're asking what people really know about all the ins and outs of the process of adoption well, I wouldn't have a clue. Things have changed at least a little since my adoption 30 something years ago I would guess. All the same, I doubt that the feelings would change much whatever the process being.

(These thoughts and ideas are purely that of my own and not intended to offend or aggravate) :)

Thanks for sharing :)

I've just realized that the average person, one NOT connected to adoption at all, has no flipping clue about adoption. Unless a person is close to a member of the adoption triad, they think adoption is a happy solution to an infertile couple and an "unwanted" baby.

I have no idea how to change public perspective on this, but if I could, believe me, I would!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Synnen

Thanks for sharing :)

I've just realized that the average person, one NOT connected to adoption at all, has no flipping clue about adoption. Unless a person is close to a member of the adoption triad, they think adoption is a happy solution to an infertile couple and an "unwanted" baby.

I have no idea how to change public perspective on this, but if I could, believe me, I would!

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I am the average person that only "know" people in this situation, all sides actually. You have changed my perspective, job well done. I would have never thought about the different issues, I would have always thought on the adoptive parents side more than any other if it weren't for this site and mostly your ventures to have your say.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by startover22

I am the average person that only "know" people in this situation, all sides actually. You have changed my perspective, job well done. I would have never thought about the different issues, I would have always thought on the adoptive parents side more than any other if it weren't for this site and mostly your ventures to have your say.

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Thank you.

You have just made my entire day!