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  • Jul 26, 2007, 01:05 AM
    Lenovo
    Anyone for cloning?
    Yes, cloning is illegal, but if it were to be legalised, who would, or would not be against it being legalised, and why? (or why not)
  • Jul 28, 2007, 12:14 PM
    PlatonicInsanity
    If cloning were legalized.. well there'd have to be a good reason for it. So far no cloning experiments have worked well - yes they can clone an animal and what not but it dies pretty quickly compared to the original life span it should have had. I guess I'm against it unless there's a good enough reason that we'd need to have clones running around.
  • Jul 29, 2007, 09:45 AM
    Lenovo
    Think of this, lets say, instead of a draft or what have you, they legalize cloning for the military and such, so that way, no one really loses a member of their family.
  • Jul 29, 2007, 07:15 PM
    jvibe101
    That's a good idea but what prevents those clones from wanting their own life.I say it would be too dangerous. Its like identity theft now... imagine a clone running around just like you actin' a fool.Or worse if those clones we create decide they want to work with our enemies rather than with us.:cool:
  • Jul 29, 2007, 07:19 PM
    J_9
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Lenovo
    Yes, cloning is illegal, but if it were to be legalised, who would, or would not be against it being legalised, and why? (or why not)

    Nope, and who are we to play God?

    This is a very emotional and debatable subject. But I don't think it is our place to play God.
  • Jul 29, 2007, 07:43 PM
    Skell
    Some would argue J_9 that we play God every day in our emergency rooms and hospitals throughout the world. Just on a different level.

    I agree that it is a very emotionally and debatable subject and one that isn't simple to address.

    I certainly don't agree with it for the purpose of creating armies.
  • Jul 29, 2007, 08:19 PM
    J_9
    Skell, I have to totally agree with you on the ERs and hospitals around the world. Yeah, in a sense we do play God.

    But to create a human in a test tube for reasons of creating armies, etc, it is my belief that it should not be done.

    It is only my belief that cloning should not be done in any way shape or form.
  • Jul 29, 2007, 09:51 PM
    magprob
    That's crazy, cloning for the military! What is the point? Pure insanity!
  • Jul 29, 2007, 09:58 PM
    bushg
    I think illegal, Some things are just to damn weird and this is one of them. Hmm although another one of me might be nice.
  • Jul 29, 2007, 10:14 PM
    rankrank55
    Wow, cloning for the military is just inhumane! I don't think we will ever need to clone and if for some odd reason we had to, I would be 100% against it.
  • Jul 29, 2007, 10:18 PM
    magprob
    Well yea, think about it. Creating humans and then sending them to slaughter. If that ever happens, we need to change our government quick! They will clone cows and sheep for food soon. The same as GM corn and soy beans. We can't stop it.
  • Jul 30, 2007, 03:49 PM
    Lenovo
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by rankrank55
    Wow, cloning for the military is just inhumane!.


    True, it may be somewhat inhumane, but isn't going to war and killing for oil or what not just as inhumane? Couldn't you classify war as being just as inhumane as cloning people so no one really suffers a loss to the army, military, navy, what ever?
  • Jul 30, 2007, 04:08 PM
    albear
    Ever seen the film 'the island' where people are cloned for body parts when the original becomes diseased or whatever I think that's a good enough reason to clone just keep them all in induced comas so they are not actually 'living' as such, and as in the film it would cost a lot so only the richest ofpeople would be able to afford a clone, so the government if they did clone for the army would not specficatly clone anybody they would mess with their DNA to make them more capable in battle conditions,e.g. higher stamina greater eyesight less independent thought, make it imune to poisons,theyd make it like a GM human, 'the perfect warrior' type being so technically it wouldn't be human, plus its unlikely because it would cost so much, much cheeper just to recuit people
  • Jul 30, 2007, 04:34 PM
    Skell
    Cloning isn't a nice thought at all. What a very dangerous practice it is and could become if adopted by the wrong people. I see stem cell research as having merit. But complete human cloning. No thanks! That is too much!
  • Jul 30, 2007, 04:40 PM
    albear
    Skell you wuss
  • Jul 30, 2007, 04:42 PM
    Skell
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by albear
    skell you wuss

    Haha! Funny! That isn't the first time I've been called a wuss. LOL!
  • Jul 30, 2007, 04:44 PM
    albear
    So why the problem with full human cloning
  • Jul 30, 2007, 04:45 PM
    Canada_Sweety
    Cloning...... I think God would be angry that people created new life and would maybe smight said people. Something I would rather not tamper with:p
  • Jul 30, 2007, 04:48 PM
    Skell
    Well just to address your argument the thought of cloning a super human to go to war / slaughter just doesn't sit well with me.

    But then again I'm a wus. ;)

    Why don't you have a problem?
  • Jul 30, 2007, 04:51 PM
    albear
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Canada_Sweety
    Cloning...... I think God would be angry that people created new life and would maybe smight said people. Something I would rather not tamper with:p

    Its not creating a new life its more like copying the old one, oh and depends if you believe in god
  • Jul 30, 2007, 04:53 PM
    Skell
    I don't believe in God. It isn't a religious viewpoint I can assure you of that.

    When we copy something essentially we are still creating something. It may be similar / same to what we already have. But it has still been created.
  • Jul 30, 2007, 04:54 PM
    Canada_Sweety
    Also true...
    But I still think we shouldn'ttamper with cloning & such.
  • Jul 30, 2007, 04:55 PM
    albear
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Skell
    Well just to address your argument the thought of cloning a super human to go to war / slaughter just doesnt sit well with me.

    But then again im a wus. ;)

    Why don't you have a problem?

    War is the natural order of life, get used to it

    Besides isn't slaughter what we are doing in going to war any way so with clones were not actually losing people of the community, think of what I put in my coment as a bio robot, with no actual reason to exist.
    I don't have a problem with it because I can't see any problems that cannot be overcome
  • Jul 30, 2007, 05:12 PM
    Lenovo
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by albear
    besides isnt slaughter what we are doing in going to war any way so with clones were not actually loosing people of the comunity, think of what i put in my coment as a bio robot, with no actual reason to exist.
    i dont have a problem with it because i can't see any problems that cannot be overcome

    My point exactly, how could it be wrong, if we were to hypothetically clone for the army? Wouldn't it be okay to clone a life to save a life? Just simply keep the clone in check. And as you said before albear, like the movie "The Island"
  • Jul 30, 2007, 05:17 PM
    albear
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Lenovo
    My point exactly, how could it be wrong, if we were to hypothetically clone for the army? Wouldn't it be okay to clone a life to save a life? Just simply keep the clone in check. And as you said before albear, like the movie "The Island"

    AHA another comrade in the 'for clones discussion' yea like in 'the island' but keep them in an induced coma because if they were living 'lives' as such it wouldn't be right to take it away if the clones are being used for medical purposes. OOH another point would be less animal testing for you animal rights activists out there.
  • Jul 30, 2007, 05:17 PM
    JoeCanada76
    I personally feel that cloning should remain illegal and if it was not I personally would be against it. There are too many immoral things that would happen due to cloning. Also it is very hard scientifically to do and who know the consequences of actual cloning will have on future generations.
  • Jul 30, 2007, 05:27 PM
    Skell
    I think the question is where will it stop?

    Cloning superhuman war machines one day, cloning a police force the next, and bar security the next.

    Where will the line in the sand be drawn??
  • Jul 30, 2007, 05:30 PM
    Lenovo
    Where did the sand come from?
  • Jul 30, 2007, 05:39 PM
    Skell
    From the weathering of rocks??
  • Jul 30, 2007, 05:40 PM
    albear
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Skell
    I think the question is where will it stop?

    Cloning superhuman war machines one day, cloning a police force the next, and bar security the next.

    Where will the line in the sand be drawn???

    As I said before it will not go that far because the cost is too high, imagine paying millions for bar security, even super human war machines as you so elegantly put it will be a rareity because imagine how high the rate of taxes will rise to pay for that your thinking in terms of that we live in a world where money is not an issue, so there is no need to wonder where a line will be drawn because there is no sand, only rich and famous people will even be able to afford it
  • Jul 30, 2007, 05:43 PM
    Skell
    I'm sure the cost of military air craft seemed unimaginable years ago. As you said earlier no problem can not be overcome. Cost included?
  • Jul 30, 2007, 05:50 PM
    albear
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Skell
    I'm sure the cost of military air craft seemed unimaginable years ago. As you said earlier no problem can not be overcome. Cost included?

    That's not what I meant when I said 'no problem can not be overcome' if I reworded it I would have used the word ethical, besides do you see it costing so much a problem, because I don't personally, besides the cost of military aircraft is still great, it just doesn't seem it. I'm not entirely sure what you mean by suggesting that the cost is a problem
  • Jul 30, 2007, 05:53 PM
    Skell
    I'm suggesting that the cost won't be a problem one day!

    Your argument was that cloning armies etc will never get off the ground because of the high cost implications.

    I'm suggesting that one day the cost won't be an issue.

    Yes the cost of military air craft is still great. It doesn't stop us producing them.

    I'm sorry if I'm missing your point. I thought you were arguing that the cost of cloning will prevent it from being used to create armies. No?
  • Jul 30, 2007, 06:00 PM
    albear
    Yes that is correct, I am, sorry I missed your point, OK, look at how many air craft we have, cloning a 'ultimate' warrior is going to be more expensive, agreed, so therefore there will be less made, now compare the number of aircraft we have compared to the number of infantry, and the total army personnel, the 'clone' army will need to be of similar size and so my point still remains that the cost will be an issue because of the sheer numbers the army will want to replace the existing infantry and the likes
  • Jul 30, 2007, 06:01 PM
    Skell
    No doubt cost will be an issue. But for how long is my point?
  • Jul 30, 2007, 06:04 PM
    Lenovo
    Now, what if they were to clone a human, without any special enhancements or anything, simply to see if they can use it and control it the way they saw fit?
  • Jul 30, 2007, 06:05 PM
    Lenovo
    Star wars episode 2 anyone?
  • Jul 30, 2007, 06:13 PM
    albear
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Lenovo
    Now, what if they were to clone a human, without any special enhancements or anything, simply to see if they can use it and control it the way they saw fit?

    Yes but if it was unaltered then they wouldn't use something that cost so much as a grunt, the star wars clones were modified and the cost be around as long as the earth because no government will be willing to raise taxes by that degree. Its just too high, and don't suggest that it won't be that high someday, because if you haven't noticed prices aren't going down no matter what the adverts say, so if anything they will become more expensive to produce.
  • Jul 31, 2007, 01:05 PM
    DrJ
    first of all, whether it is right or wrong, it is going to happen. There really is no stopping it at this point.

    The discussion so far seems to be that clones will be inhuman... soulless... not worth the life they are given. That seems rather harsh. I mean, we could use regular people and grow them in incubators and use them just the same as the clones. What stops us from doing that? The inhumanity of it. So why would a cloned life be condemned to such an inhumane life?

    As far as God goes... true: Only God can create Life. However, God gave the ability for Life to create Life. Is this any different? We are creating Life from Life... an ability that God has given us. It may be another issue had we been creating Life from no-Life. Will He smite us? Lol possibly... but is it really any different that the world of sin we live in today??

    Cost... yeah, as said, if it really is an issue now, it won't be for long. There is plenty of money in the world and the more we advance, the easier it will become.
  • Jul 31, 2007, 03:16 PM
    albear
    Are you suggesting that making a clone will in cost so much that it will become an everyday item.

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