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Not to put it down, but do you know this is actually a event in competitive shooting. The contestant lays down and is timed on how fast he gets up gets his gun an acquires the target. I can't remember what it's called right now though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Allheart
Quote:
Originally Posted by Allheart
Yes do tell? Nice pic by the way. And what's the diff between owning a gun for sport and protection does that mean you can't use one for the other.
Agree hold heartedly. It isn't about banning them all together. It is about restricting those who can get hold of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottGem
It is the same with you Synnen. I have no doubt you are a responsible gun owner and user. And I would never want to take hunters guns away from them. Hunting is a part of life here as well. Once again that isn't the issue. The issue is the freedom of being able to walk down the street with one in your handbag. Why I ask? That isn't hunting. That isn't sport. That just leads to what we seen happen in Virginia.
It isn't gun eradication, it is gun control. Two different words.
And can I ask Synnen? Is it really believed that because you have guns and the right to bear them that it will enable you to take part in some hostile take over of your government. Is that really a possibility in the USA? Perhaps it was the case when that law was written but surely not today??
Thank you for saying that OG. I have heard that argument before and I would be lying if id said is didn't have more than just a snigger when I heard it. I mean come on, that is a pretty crazy notion to believe!Quote:
Originally Posted by ordinaryguy
Not legally.Quote:
Originally Posted by Allheart
Put it this way, I'm 24 and I have never laid eyes on a gun other than on a policeman's hip and my dads old pee pee shooter that he handed back when everyone else handed in their guns in the 90's. I do not know anyone that owns one other than farmers who own them legally and strictly for hunting and pest control. Wanting a gun so you keep in your closet at home in case a bad guy comes in is not a valid reason for issuing a license.
Im not saying we don't have them. And I'm not saying people don't get shot by people who shouldn't have them. There are bad guys that have them and do bad things with them. But me having a gun is not going to change that is it?? G
Gun ownership here is not something that we crave. It isn't something that we hold so dear to us that we feel our rights have been taken away because we don't have the right to bear arms.
There was a day in the 90's when that was the case. But it took the worst shooting spree killing in the history of the world to change all that. Yes there as an uproar by some but at the end of the day people just let it go. And no one would want it to go back to how it was. And it has made a difference.
A prawn is like a shrimp.Quote:
Originally Posted by Allheart
Prawn - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A favorite type of seafood down here. They are magnificent eating.
Yes!Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt3046
Oh God Skell - thanks for the info. But they look like little pets... oh sorry.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skell
I am sure they are good. How's the beer there LOL :)
Not when they are cooked Allheart.
The beer is even better. Nice and cold. Not like our English friends who drink warm beers and cold meet pies :) Weird...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skell
Then would it be okay if I requested a cold beer - but hold the prawn :o
I didn't know the English drank warm beer? Never knew that.
That's fine Allheart but you don't know what your missing out on. Ill even peel it for you.
They do all sorts of crazy things over there Allheart. Warm beer is just the start of it. ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skell
Then you have a deal!!
And warm beer is only the start :eek: :D ( I'm all brave now cause I know they are all sound asleep now having sweet dreams... hee hee )
Oh lord.
No... I *don't* think that we'd win against the government. The Homesteaders (or whatever the heck they were called) in Wyoming and the Branch Davidians in Texas are GREAT examples of uprisings (or the beginnings thereof) against the government that were smashed like bugs on a windshield.
The problem is... the people that are going to kill, are probably going to kill anyway. Would guns being harder to get REALLY have stopped someone who was obviously a bit off their rocker like the shooter in VA? Probably not. It would have been a homemade bomb (which at a tech school, I'm SURE they knew how to make. Hell, I learned how to make one in high school!), or some sort of chemical or *gasp* heaven forfend---an ILLEGAL WEAPON! Because we all know that THAT never happens!
I have no problem with gun controls... depending on how they're enforced.
Let me ask this, because I honestly don't know the answer: In Australia (or other places with strict gun control) is there or has there been the problems with crooked police? Or, which is more likely, police who stand by each other even when one of them is breaking the law? Do you have issues like Rodney King there? Do you trust your law enforcement completely, to give them basically ALL of the weapons in your country?
I'm asking because (obviously) I don't trust MY law enforcement to be on my side. I don't think that the vast majority of them are bad people. I think that I can't possibly understand the brotherhood that develops between officers of the law, because they lay their lives on the line to keep us safe daily. I respect that, and I respect the people willing to do it.
But I don't trust them. I've heard too many stories about grudges, and the good ol' boys club, and bribes, and the feeling of helplessness the law has against fighting an uphill battle with the courts (the police arrest them, and the courts let them walk sort of story).
No... I don't think that I need a gun to fight in an uprising against my government. The government is already destroying itself from the inside. And as far as protection goes... a good alarm and a large dog are better protection than a gun most of the time anyway.
Hi Synnen,Quote:
Originally Posted by Synnen
Yes I will agree to an extent that people that are going to kill will if they have to find a way to kill regardless. However, I feel that making it harder than it is at present for a gun to be placed in a killers hand is surely worth looking at. There has to be ways of making it harder to for lunatics such as this to get guns than it currently is. The current system is clearly not working.
Would gun control have really stopped this person from doing what he did? Maybe not. But it might have. No gun control laws whatsoever definitely didn't.
My answer to your above questions would be YES. Yes I do have enough trust in my police force and military to let them have control of our weapons. And I can say that with supreme confidence and without nativity. And I think 99% of the population would agree with me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Synnen
That's not to say that we don't have crooked police and Bureaucrats. Of course we do. Always have and always will. But as you say overall they do a good job and are to be respected.
But please explain to me because I think I am missing the point, but how on earth does you and other having a gun prevent this from happening or even help you if it ever does happen? I really don't understand. If you have crooked police and ol' boys clubs that stick together how does you having a gun change that. How does it protect you? If you get into a bit of trouble with an untrustworthy and crooked cop is your gun going to save you. I would argue that it would get you in more trouble.
And the same goes for if you come across a civilian that is causing you similar problems. What is your gun going to do? They are going to have one as well under the current laws so you have a 50% chance of not getting shot in some ways. Wouldn't it be better if they didn't have a gun, you didn't have a gun and no one got shot?
Its sad that you can't trust your police force. Really it is and I hope I never get to that point. But I understand that there must be mitigating circumstances as to why. I still just struggle to comprehend though how gun ownership fixes any of this.
Personally Global warming is my largest worldly concern at the moment. Are people so thick as to not forsee what is the coming consequences of our behaviour. We need to unite as one and conteract this problem by just turning off that lightswitch or switching off the TV at the powerpoint when we not using it. Why does it have to become so complicated. Don't be lazy.. Prove the government wrong when they say we are all lazy, fat and obese. Just get up and do it!Quote:
Originally Posted by NowWhat
Skell
It's not so much that I think that owning a gun would help me. I do, however, think that the fact that the ordinary citizen can own a gun DOES stop it from being worse than it is. And, as I say, I'm paranoid... I fully believe that our government is heading for collapse.
The big thing, for me, is that the government already controls too much here. I don't think people are REALLY so stupid that they need the government to hold their hands on everything. Wait... actually, people probably ARE that stupid.
As it is... our freedom of speech is being threatened by people who don't know when the hell to shut up.
Our right to bear arms is being threatened by people who hold a grudge against the world because somehow or another, they didn't get what they thought they were "entitled" to.
I hate the idea that the parents of the students who died so tragically this week will sue the school for not locking down campus, even though it was the best decision they could make with the information that they had. I hate even more that they'll probably win.
I'm all for gun control... please don't get me wrong. It SHOULD be harder to purchase a weapon than it is. The problem that I have... and I'm sure it's the problem others have as well, is that once you start putting in controls, you're on a slippery slope. Our government has a habit of doing things to propagate it's own power, whether it's for the good of the people.
I'm probably getting incoherent at this point, as it's midnight and I should be in bed.
I want you all to know, though, that I'm really enjoying this conversation, and hope that my arguments are taken in that spirit, and not as a personal attack against anyone's opinion. I've had a few lightbulbs go off over my head over the last few days, and have really done a lot of thinking about what people have posted.
Please see my reply (to Magprod) earlier in this thread. I DO believe that the lax gun laws in VA contributed significantly to this event. This tragedy was very preventable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Synnen
Hello Skell:Quote:
Originally Posted by Skell
Do you see how the insurgents in Iraq can stymie the most powerful military force in the world? They do it with small arms and very little organization. That could happen here.
The time to get a gun, is when they want you to give yours up.
excon
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