Quote:

---

Wondergirl agrees: Ok, c'mon. Just campaign and vote for the guy. He's head and shoulders over the others, literally as well as philosophically.

---

Why? What has he done to deserve my vote? What has he done to deserve your vote for "leader of the free world?"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tomder55

one thing is for sure . at this point substance has not defined this race

Would a white man who only had local political experience and then less than a full term in the Senate have a chance at being the party nominee ?

Would Hillary be a legit nominee if she was not the wife of a former President ?

Heck ;would a 71 year old women be in consideration for the job ?

I will repeat what I have said ;I read Obama's latest book . That is where I found his policy positions. Beyond the constant pointing out that in his view Washington doesn't work well (a quick impression no doubt from his apx one year in office experience before he began penning it. ) ; there was nothing that he wrote that wasn't right out of the Democrat talking points.

Now there is an interesting endorsement in last months Atlantic Magazine by Andrew Sullivan Goodbye to All That: Why Obama Matters

My impression was that he thought that Obama's campaign is such a symbolic break from the past ,that the symbolism trumps the substance.

---

Would a white man who only had local political experience and then less than a full term in the Senate have a chance at being the party nominee ?
I guess that would depend on what kind of message he is sending. Are you trying to say that you don't need a message to get the Kenned's on your side. You don't need a message to win the majority of states and delegets? Just maybe these people are reading something more than his book. Or all you have to be is black( now that is funny!) ?

Good article Tom, in it I read:

“Consider this hypothetical. It's November 2008. A young Pakistani Muslim is watching television and sees that this man—Barack Hussein Obama—is the new face of America. In one simple image, America's soft power has been ratcheted up not a notch, but a logarithm. A brown-skinned man whose father was an African, who grew up in Indonesia and Hawaii, who attended a majority-Muslim school as a boy, is now the alleged enemy. If you wanted the crudest but most effective weapon against the demonization of America that fuels Islamist ideology, Obama's face gets close. It proves them wrong about what America is in ways no words can.”

I agree he would be a crude weapon but his thinking that it would be effective shows the author's ignorance of the situation in the Middle-East.

Dude you need to play runescape:) :) :) :) relly at RuneScape - the massive online adventure game by Jagex Ltd oks

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Why? What has he done to deserve my vote? What has he done to deserve your vote for "leader of the free world?"

---

He might not deserve your vote, in your pinion. He gets my vote because I feel he can relate to me.( that is one but not all my reasons) I am not here to convert people just state why I am voting for him. I hope other people take the same stance.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Why? What has he done to deserve my vote? What has he done to deserve your vote for "leader of the free world?"

---

Two major "things," paraphrased from obsidianwings.blog.com --

Obama has sponsored or co-sponsored really good legislation on topics that aren't wildly sexy, but do matter (e.g. lead paint controls, nonproliferation, Avian flu, regulating genetic testing, reducing medical malpractice suits the right way, vets' health care). His bills tend to have the following features: they are good and thoughtful bills that try to solve real problems; they are in general not terribly flashy; and they tend to focus on achieving solutions acceptable to all concerned, not by compromising on principle, but by genuinely trying to craft a solution that everyone can get behind.

His legislation is often proposed with Republican co-sponsorship: he is bipartisan in a good way. Obama tries to find people, both Democrats and Republicans, who actually care about a particular issue enough to try to get the policy right, and then he works with them. This does not involve compromising on principle. It does, however, involve preferring getting legislation passed to having a spectacular battle. (This is especially true when one is in the minority party, especially in this Senate: the chances that Obama's bills will actually become law increase dramatically when he has Republican co-sponsors.)

Interesting take:

“Rev. Jesse Lee Peterson, founder and president of the non-profit Brotherhood Organization of a New Destiny, or BOND, told Cybercast News Service that he doesn't want the first African-American president to hold values that are detrimental to the black community.

"Abortion is genocide," Peterson said. "It has had a greater affect on the African American community than slavery itself. For Barack Obama to support abortion shows a lack of love for the black community and especially for the unborn."

Childress agreed that just being African-American doesn't make Obama the right person to be president.

"Martin Luther King said of his daughter that he didn't want her to be judged by the color of her skin, but by the content of her character," said Childress. "People are applauding Obama because of the color of his skin and not his character."”

Obama's Abortion Stance Hurts Blacks, Say Pro-Life Experts -- 01/08/2008

Why Republicans like Obama and what it means

Quote:

---

Barack Obama is not only popular among Democrats, he's also an appealing figure to many Republicans. Former GOP House member Joe Scarborough, now a host on MSNBC, reports that after every important Obama speech, he is inundated with e-mails praising the speech — with most of them coming from Republicans.

---

Why Republicans like Obama and what it means | Chron.com - Houston Chronicle

There is and always has been cross-over. That's nothing new NK

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dark_crow

There is and always has been cross-over. That’s nothing new NK

---

I hope some of those that crossover don't think that abortion is genocide and worse than slavery for black people.

Walter Hoye runs the Issues4Life Foundation in the San Francisco Bay area, an organization he said is designed to create and facilitate dialog about life in the African- American community.

"Abortion is the No. 1 cause of death in the African-American community," Hoye told Cybercast News Service. He added that the 2006 census shows that the black population in the United States has fallen below the numbers needed to sustain it.

"We are below the replacement rate," Hoye said. "We don't call it genocide to excite people. But it's a concern we have and it's become an issue that needs to be addressed nationally."

He added that he is hurt and disappointed by Obama's pro-abortion platform

So why aren't they jailing the mothers for murder?

Childress told Cybercast News Service, referring to Obama's vote against the Born Alive Victims Protection Act, a federal law that gives rights to newborns who survive late-term abortion. "Abortion affects the African-American community more than any other ethnic group in the country," said Childress.

Perhaps not needing an abortion in the first place would be the way to go?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Two major "things," paraphrased from obsidianwings.blog.com --

---

Thanks Wondergirl, but that still tells me virtually nothing. Based on that paraphrase Bush should be looking a lot better right now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Why Republicans like Obama and what it means


Why Republicans like Obama and what it means | Chron.com - Houston Chronicle

---

Ah, the emotional factor. I'd rather vote for the best candidate, not the one with that "charms" me the most. The last paragraph speaks volumes:

Quote:

---

Barack Obama is among the most impressive political talents of our lifetime. If he defeats Hillary Clinton, the question for the general election is not whether he can transcend his race but whether he can reach beyond his ideology.

---

But Wondergirl... you want to take away something that feels good? Or put it in a bag like garbage? Besides haven't you heard that sex education classes in school aren't successful in lowering rates of pregnancy... so if people aren't learning from those teachings, can we assume that there must be some blatent disregard for the information, a learning disability, or preference for having the precedure over the other options? Or is it simply that many people prefer not to think about or deal with the consequences of their actions until they are forced to?

As long as the option is there for people to put off responsibility... seems like many people are pretty happy not to have to think ahead.

I'm not trying to lump all people into the same category, there will be people who don't fit my above description, and benefit from the option, but I believe those people are certainly less than half.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by oneguyinohio

you want to take away something that feels good?

---

Well, back in my day, most of us were willing to wait for marriage, or at least a solid relationship. Of course, not having birth control devices readily available (some not even invented yet) probably helped. Back then, family and church were major parts of a teen's life. That seems to have changed.

Petting a Siberian tiger probably feels good too, but you won't catch me doing it.

Quote:

---

can we assume that there must be some blatent disregard for the information, a learning disability, or preference for having the precedure over the other options?

---

Better would be to assume that there is something wrong with the classes and how the material is taught. Visit classes at your local schools. Talk to teens in your neighborhood. Ask for opinions about and the efficacy of sex ed classes. You will get an eyeful and an earful.

I completely agree Wondergirl. I'm not saying you are wrong. I was trying to imagine what some of the people's reasoning is...

Back when I had one of those sex classes... the teacher blushed and said, "Oh, heck you boys probably no more about this than I do..." He put up a few transparencies naming body parts and that was the end of it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by oneguyinohio

I completely agree Wondergirl. I'm not saying you are wrong.

---

I know, oneguy. You and I usually agree more than disagree. I was preaching to the masses.

(Wouldn't it be great if everyone had as much sense as you and I do?? )

Now, we need to get this thread back on track with Clint's original question, so some wandering moderator doesn't end it.

I just know Obama would improve the quality of sex education in public schools.