I saw a great show today dealing with genetics and control genes involving research on birds and their relationship to dinosaurs. It showed how birds have extra vertibrae that no longer develop because of control genes. When manipulations were done those control genes were basically shut off allowing the extra vertebrae to develop. The show went on to explain how all of the characteristics were still contained within the chromosomes, so that the control genes are what caused the birds to be different than dinosuars. There were different control genes for each portion of the body for which scientist continue to investigate. I'm not saying they are able to make dinosaurs, but scientist are developing more understandings about evolutionary processes and how the genes are controlled that allow for the changes. All it seemed to take was an addition or subtraction of certain proteins to stimulate the control genes.

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Originally Posted by oneguyinohio

...scientist are developing more understandings about evolutionary processes and how the genes are controlled that allow for the changes. All it seemed to take was an addition or subtraction of certain proteins to stimulate the control genes.

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Interesting.

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Originally Posted by asking

Of course, I realize Life Papparazi may choose to reject all this evidence--which is just the tip of the ice berg--but it's not true to say that there is no evidence for evolution generally or for the evolution of humans. There's lots and it's fun to learn about.

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Touché, I stand currently defeated by all of your statements. It seems that I need to do more research about recent discoveries. But beliefe you me, I am NOT a religious person and have held on to my believes based on my previous studies of the topic... um um.. years ago. I will certainly wrap my brain around any new data on the subject. Hey, not all of us are stuck up know it alls. Some of us are open minded enough to re-think the subject, like me. :eek:

Thanks for the info.;)

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Originally Posted by LifePaparazzi

Touche, I stand currently defeated by all of your statements. It seems that I need to do more research about recent discoveries. But beliefe you me, I am NOT a religious person and have held on to my believes based on my previous studies of the topic... um um.. years ago. I will certainly wrap my brain around any new data on the subject. Hey, not all of us are stuck up know it alls. Some of us are open minded enough to re-think the subject, like me. :eek:

Thanks for the info.;)

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You are welcome! I'm delighted to have told you something you didn't know. Evolutionary biology is actually a pretty solid science and really interesting. I very much appreciate your gracious reply.

I'm wondering though who told you that evolution was in doubt? Was this in a high school or college biology class?

Best,
Asking

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Originally Posted by oneguyinohio

I saw a great show today dealing with genetics and control genes involving research on birds and their relationship to dinosaurs. It showed how birds have extra vertibrae that no longer develop because of control genes. When manipulations were done those control genes were basically shut off allowing the extra vertebrae to develop. The show went on to explain how all of the characteristics were still contained within the chromosomes, so that the control genes are what caused the birds to be different than dinosuars. There were different control genes for each portion of the body for which scientist continue to investigate. I'm not saying they are able to make dinosaurs, but scientist are developing more understandings about evolutionary processes and how the genes are controlled that allow for the changes. All it seemed to take was an addition or subtraction of certain proteins to stimulate the control genes.

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"The control genes of birds are different." No scientific explanation as to how they became different. Or were these control genes there all along? No one can absolutely say for sure.

How did the information get to these chromosomes in the first place?

Why would dinosaurs have "flight genes" and not use them?

The science states what is there.

Some humans assume it somehow got there through evolution, that is no different than some humans saying that God created.


As to self replicating proteins, is human heredity through genes or proteins?

How did these self replicating proteins make the switch to DNA as the main mechanism of heredity and cellular control?

Did these proteins somehow decide to become ribosomes and somehow know how to interact with MRNA and TRNA, and amino acids? What of the cellular editing after initial protein synthesis. How is this all possible through the all creating force of natural selection?

The more one knows of real factual science the more silly and impossible evolution becomes.


Is natural selection intelligent to have designed this?

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Originally Posted by inthebox

The more one knows of real factual science the more silly and impossible evolution becomes.

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I know a few thousand scientists that would disagree with you on that one.
NCSE Resource

The problem as I see it is that evolution is a hard subject to grasp it's very complicated and one shouldn't be expected to get it without good amount of research. It's much easier for people to "get" god did it you don't need to understand it and then go on there way. That however doesn't make god did it the right answer.

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Originally Posted by michealb

I know a few thousand scientists that would disagree with you on that one.
NCSE Resource

The problem as I see it is that evolution is a hard subject to grasp it's very complicated and one shouldn't be expected to get it without good amount of research. It's much easier for people to "get" god did it you don't need to understand it and then go on there way. That however doesn't make god did it the right answer.

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God aside I have read a handful (just what I have found) of geneticists that would argue the validity of your statements.

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Originally Posted by inthebox

Some humans assume it somehow got there thru evolution, that is no different than some humans saying that God created.

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Proving evolution doesn't disprove god - it just disproves the biblical version of events. I understand that presents a problem for a lot of people, but evolution makes no claim for or against "god".

It seems that when science makes a new claim or discovery you dismiss it because it doesn't answer every single question you can think of. That doesn't mean it's wrong. I know religion has an answer to everything, "God did it" or "God works in mysterious ways" but is that really an answer? That's like saying "Because I said so". Science, instead, says, "Here's what we know, here's what we think, here's what we still need to figure out."

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Originally Posted by Smoked

god aside i have read a handful (just what i have found) of geneticists that would argue the validity of your statements.

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A handful of people without evidence is meaningless. Every experiment ever done has either supported evolution or did nothing to prove it wrong. If it did we would abandon the theory of evolution and start working on a new theory. That's the way science works it's only religion that doesn't abandon theories when they conflict with reality.

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Originally Posted by asking

You are welcome! I'm delighted to have told you something you didn't know. Evolutionary biology is actually a pretty solid science and really interesting. I very much appreciate your gracious reply.

I'm wondering though who told you that evolution was in doubt? Was this in a high school or college biology class?

Best,
Asking

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I did a 500 page paper on the subject when I was in college. I put over a years worth or research in to it. But, that was back in the eightees and there are, as it appears, new discoveries, which I did not take in to consideration during this discussion.

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Originally Posted by michealb

Every experiment ever done has either supported evolution or did nothing to prove it wrong. If it did we would abandon the theory of evolution and start working on a new theory.

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I agree. Just finding questions that one person or another can't answer doesn't prove that evolution is wrong. When we DO find answers, they have so far always been consistent with evolution. Over 150 years, that's a lot of evidence in favor of evolution.

Sometimes when someone keeps asking questions that haven't been answered yet or which the particular person talking doesn't know the answers to and insists that the answer is that it was God, people call that kind of reasoning "God is in the gaps." That is, God is supposed to be the answer to whatever a certain person doesn't know. So, for example, if I didn't know how plants can pull water to the tops of tall trees, I might say that since I don't know how that works and I assume no one else does, then the answer is that God moves the water to the top of the tree (instead of evaporation in the leaves and "stickiness" of water molecules inside the plants' "pipes"). In fact, there is an answer, whether the person knows it or not, even if no one knows it yet. But someone will figure it out eventually.

Questions about how things work are different from why questions, like Why are we here? How things work questions can usually be answered eventually. Those are the kinds of questions that science is good at.

Asking

Just posting to see if this thread is working correctly. I've read the last post 6 times but it keeps appearing as though a new post has been added?