Ask Me Help Desk - The world we live in

You are right Nowwhat. I guess we won't know what actually transpired unless we are allowed into the custody hearing. There is no excuse for calling his daughter names and cursing at her, which he did. He has acknowledged that. I think it was a culmination of many years of frustration with the mother who has been brainwashing her to hate her father. We have no idea what the kid has verbally said to her father at other times. I think the guy just finally blew a cork out of frustration that his daughter has progressively shown that she wants nothing to do with him.

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Originally Posted by RubyPitbull

You are right Nowwhat. I guess we won't know what actually transpired unless we are allowed into the custody hearing. There is no excuse for calling his daughter names and cursing at her, which he did. He has acknowledged that. I think it was a culmination of many years of frustration with the mother who has been brainwashing her to hate her father. We have no idea what the kid has verbally said to her father at other times. I think the guy just finally blew a cork out of frustration that his daughter has progressively shown that she wants nothing to do with him.

Well the phone call was likely recorded, it is very common in these situations.
I have to tape all calls I make to my daughter and when her mother calls here to speak with her. It's to protect yourself, from misunderstandings and false allegations. Yes he was wrong, and even cruel but I have seen him make a a**
Out of himself several times before. But, he's a great leading man.
This stems from the fact that he had actually flew to La from NY to see her and she didn't show up. And he probably has no way of communicating with his ex except with lawyers. Parental Alienation, and Parental alienation Syndrome
Is a very disturbing crime committed against the child. I personally have had listen to my 4 and a half year old tell me all the lies and any other thing (true and untrue) that her mother can think of simply to diminish me in her eyes. What's really sad is that it does more harm to the kids because you are basically telling them that they are stupid and wrong for thinking the way they do. It's really my own fault for I broke a very important Murphys law "never sleep with anyone crazier than yourself"

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Parental alienation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Parental Alienation Syndrome: How to Detect It and What to Do About It by J. Michael Bone and Michael R. Walsh
parental alienation - Google Search

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Nobody wins in a situation like this - least of all the child. I don't understand how any parent could do this - if you aren't with the other parent anymore - you obviously don't care or like each other anymore. But - that doesn't have anything to do with you as a parent. We may stink as husband/wife but, what does that have to do with your parenting skills?

My ex. Sister-in-law told my niece and nephew for years that their dad and his side of the family were terrible and blah blah blah. They didn't want much to do with us. Then the mom couldn't handle my nephew anymore and sent him to live with his dad. It took a long time for my brother to get through to this kid and help him. It is the best thing that could have happened (coming to live with him) and I am glad she made that decision. It was made more out of convienence for herself than making a sacrifice - but whatever.
There were years of brainwashing to overcome. Now he is a protective teenager doing well in school and sports - something that would have never happened if he still lived with his mom. My niece, well that is another story. She is a teen mom and married to a real "winner". No job, living off the system and happy doing so. She only contacts us if she wants something - just like her mother.

I'm going to leave for Gliese 581 c. Anyone coming with me?

I am always game for a new adventure

I can't believe Wiki has already made an entry on that Cappy. Fast work. Pretty amazing stuff huh? We knew we couldn't be the only planet in the universe that can support life, but it is rather exciting to have this discovery happen during our lifetime.

Uh-oh, I can only imgine the new religious debates that will spark should life be found there. Xenu will be angered!

I can only imagine too. It looks like fun to me..

Evil monkey. :D

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/im...ey-Posters.jpg

Cappy... do you live in Chris's closet?

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Originally Posted by Capuchin

I'm going to leave for Gliese 581 c. Anyone coming with me?

You had better get going, it seems to be a long way off. If you see this guy tell him I said hi.

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Liquid water? On this planet there is liquid water - as opposed to powdered water, gas water?
I mean - is there any other kind of water?

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Originally Posted by NowWhat

Liquid water? On this planet there is liquid water - as opposed to powdered water, gas water?
I mean - is there any other kind of water?

Yes, gaseous and solid (ice).

Don't forget bottled, spring, desighner, reverse osmosis triple filtered, and tap water.

Well, okay, I forgot about solid.

Taking prayer out of schools
That was a bad idea...

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Originally Posted by SnaveLeber

Taking prayer out of schools
That was a bad idea...

Why so?

Ive seen several grids showing the drop in morals of students from the time (1979? Ish) that they took it out. The facts are that the moralsof this country were based upon a christian character. Love thy God, Love thy Neighbor, don't lie don't steal obey your parents (in which is right) don't commit adultery, do not bow down to false idols, don't murder, don't want what's not yours, and keep the sabbath holy. (Way out of order I know)
But look where we are.
Sex is rampant, perversion just as much
We murder
We lie
We disrespect our parents
We get drunk on sat, sleep in on sun.
Money is our idol.
Most of us say "theres probably a God out there, but theres no telling which is right"
We steal, wanting what's not ours
And we hate other people

And yes I believe that this is a result of taking God, and communicstion with God out of school. Why? Because you are taking young, impressionable people, teaching them about life and logic, telling them in essance, the laws of our God, but when they ask "why is it that we have to follow these rules?" there's no answer.
Leaving them to believe that morals are rules set up by society to govern and control...
Leaving them wanting to rebel, because we all just die. End of story.

Hello snave:

Not bad stuff, but shouldn't parents teach that at home? The schools have enough trouble teaching the three R's. I don't want them teaching about God too. By the way, whose God are they going to teach is right? Yours or mine?

excon

If you need a book to give you morals then there may be another problem present. I really don't need anyone to tell me not to murder or sleep with my neighbour's wife or respect my parents.

For me to say that them teaching of any other God than mine- the God the of the Bible, Jesus Christ, then I would either be saying "I dont believe what i say i do"
Or "I do believe everything in the bible, I just dont care if youre going to hell"

And I do.

But so many Christians settle, and compromise, and submit, which really makes you wonder, doesn't it?

So in answer to your question: Our schools should teach of the God of Jacob and Isaac.

For me to say any different would mean I don't care

-When I do

I wish prayer was back in school, also. I remember Bible study when I was in school - although it was gone by the time I was in second grade.
But, I think the way the world is today - it wouldn't work - just because, we would all argue about "Who's God - your's or mine". And nothing would get accomplished.
We teach our child about God, we are proud that at age 6 she has asked Jesus into her heart as her one true Saviour.
I believe the Bible is a guide on how to live your life. I wish more people did also.

excon brings up a good point.

Which God should we pray too? And in choosing one God, are we then saying that that is THE only God? I am not sure if that is the message we should be sending.

Besides, religion is a personal choice and each personal has a different relationship with their God. To place it in the classroom would generalize religon. Making it far less a personal relationship, and more a mandated action

I'm going to play devil's advocate with you, Snave.

Prayer in public schools is a violation of the separation of Church and state. State meaning "my taxpayer money" and Church being "a select church, usually Christianity".

If you want your kids to pray, send them to a parochial school. I'm not paying taxes to teach kids to pray. Better yet, teach them to pray at home! Teachers are overworked enough as it is, without making them pray to a god they may or may not believe in. *Teachers* should not be the ones teaching kids morals. That's the job of *parents*.

Also... I think that fewer people would have a problem with prayer in schools if it weren't for the fact that the people pushing for it are predominantly Christian. How about... we pray to Hindu gods on Monday, and have Buddhist prayers on Tuesday. Wednesdays would be for Muslim prayers, and Thursdays for pagans. That would leave Fridays open for atheists to just have a moment of silence for non-prayer. How does that work for you? It's prayer!

Your statistics are skewed. There's a huge decline in parental responsibility in the timeframe that you're mentioning as well.

As far as the rest goes... here's a quote for you:

The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they allow disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children now are tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers. `

That quote is usually attributed to Socrates. Socrates was around before Christ was even reputed to be born. The problems you're listing aren't new problems. They're not even problems that were fixed for a while by the conversion of half the world to Christianity. Heck, people who call themselves Christian have murdered and abused and disrespected authority for hundreds of years!

Personally, I'd pull my kid out of any public school that did have prayer. That, or I'd fight to have my non-majority (and any other religion I could think of) prayers heard as often as Christian prayers.

And this is why we won't live to see prayer back in school...

I agree with you Syn.

Agreed 100% with Synnen. The culprit is not lack of prayer in school it's the steady decline in quality parenting.

No one can agree on anything. Religion is just one of them. As a Christian - I would have a problem if my daughter was asked to pray to Budda or any other god. Her one true saviour is Jesus Christ. So, I would pull her out of a school that required her to pray to anyone else but Him.
We are so divided.

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Originally Posted by Tuscany

Excon brings up a good point.

Which God should we pray too? And in choosing one God, are we then saying that that is THE only God? I am not sure if that is the message we should be sending.

Besides, religion is a personal choice and each personal has a different relationship with their God. To place it in the classroom would generalize religon. Making it far less a personal relationship, and more a mandated action

Look, me offending 1000 people is worth it if one believes. A persons soul is always going to be more important. People are going to get offended, especially in this country, where ever word is tact filled and people never really convey the message they want.
Something I know is that you can never argue anyone into your belief system, you can never force it either...
But to say that its completely against the rules?

Christianity is not cigarette smoke...
Its not going to hurt you

Let the kids pray, and read their Bible.
If you want to say don't let the teachers preach to the kids
That's fine.But don't condemn a child or teen for loving their God, or wanted to let someone else see what they have found

I am a devote Catholic. But, I agree with Syn. School is a place for learning, not for worship. UNLESS you chose to send your child to a school that combines both together. I would be personally offended if any person told my child how, when, or who to worship. It is not fair to ask those who do not believe to pray. Just as it is not fair to ask someone to pray to a God that is not their God.

I don't think pushing religon on anyone, in schools or door to door, or any other way is right. Religon is a personal choice.

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Originally Posted by NowWhat

As a Christian - I would have a problem if my daughter was asked to pray to Budda or any other god.

Well at least you understand where we come from. :)

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Originally Posted by SnaveLeber

Look, me offending 1000 people is worth it if one believes. a persons soul is always going to be more important. People are going to get offended, especially in this country, where ever word is tact filled and people never really convey the message they want.
Something I know is that you can never argue anyone into your belief system, you can never force it either...
but to say that its completely against the rules?

Christianity is not cigarette smoke...
Its not going to hurt you

Let the kids pray, and read their Bible.
If you want to say dont let the teachers preach to the kids
thats fine.But dont condemn a child or teen for loving their God, or wanted to let someone else see what they have found

School districts cannot offend people like an individual can. And they cannot chose one religon over another. That is a form of prejudice.

Im not saying take a particular time and devote it to prayer, Im saying that locally 3 teens have been suspended from schools in my region because they were reading their bible or praying. Granted parents are not doing their jobs...
But don't punish the kids who do have good parents

Hello again, snave:

Offending me is a hell of a way to enlighten me. In fact, what you want to do is indoctrinate me. I don't like being offended. I offend back.

excon

Last year, in kindergarten - my daughter would pray at snack time. Ask God to bless her food. Her teacher told her not to because it wasn't "allowed". (some of you may have heard this story before) We told her to just say it in her head - we didn't want to go toe to toe with the school.
At Thanksgiving this year we had a "feast" in the classroom - her teacher was going to have them say grace - but there is a muslim child in the class and she didn't want to offend anyone. So we didn't.
My daughter did however say her grace.
She asks people all the time if they go to church or if the believe in Jesus. Keep in mind she is 6 - if they say no, she tells them they are going to go to hell.
That is how she has been taught. That is what we believe. And kids are brutally honest - I do not tell her not to say these things - because if I tell her not to, does it tell her that she should be ashamed of what she is learned or that what she has learned is wrong?

I am not sure where you live, but where I teach if students read a bible during lunch or study hall that is their personal time and they can do what they want.

Snave, how could they be suspended? All they were doing was praying and reading? Out loud or to themselves? Were they attempting to preach?
I don't get it.
Is that a lawsuit waiting to happen?

I agree with you too Synnen. I was thinking along the same line.

Separation of Church and State is one of the basic founding priniciples, and considered the most important one to the founding fathers, of the United States. It is part of the First Amendment to our Constitution.

Our religions, our values, our moral code of conduct, must be taught at home.

Snavelover, I think the problems you are pointing out are problems because we seem to be lacking in parental skills more than anything else. People expect teachers to be babysitters and teach children right from wrong. That is the real problem. Some parents are not spending the time with their children necessary, or others are lacking a moral compass themselves. I have seen supposedly religious people, lie, steal, cheat, covet,. all the sins. There has been a breakdown in traditional values, not from lack of religion being taught in schools, but from parental guidance and teaching. Parental responsibility seems to be in crisis in this country.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnaveLeber

Look, me offending 1000 people is worth it if one believes. a persons soul is always going to be more important.

The problem with that is you don't have a monopoly on what saving a soul is about. You think you do, but you don't. I don't either, NO ONE does!

I've said this before. I do not believe that the teachings of Jesus Christ, teachings that spoke about love and peace, about the golden rule, can be reconciled with a teaching that says either you worship this way or you will be damned.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnaveLeber

Let the kids pray, and read their Bible.
If you want to say dont let the teachers preach to the kids
thats fine.

Yes, let the kids pray, but at an appropriate time in an appropriate place. A PUBLIC school is not such a time or place.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnaveLeber

But dont condemn a child or teen for loving their God

I agree, but aren't you doing just that? Aren't you saying we should condemn someone for loving their god if it isn't the one you believe in?

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnaveLeber

or wanted to let someone else see what they have found

Again I agree as long as the person is interested. But too often its trying to force what they found.