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Originally Posted by Dark_crow

That’s peachy-keen and if that is what Obama is talking about fine. But what about Iraq, Iran, immigration, foreign policy, abortion, and health care?

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Before the election in November, you will get your fill of who plans to do what in those areas. Already Obama says he will stabilize the levees in NO if he's elected. No one seems to have done that so far since Katrina. Obama has said he wants us out of Iraq but realizes we can't just drop everything and leave (Clinton), but we shouldn't have to stay there indefinitely (McCain). Obama will negotiate with Iran and avoid a major conflict. Stay tuned to hear more!

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Before the election in November, you will get your fill of who plans to do what in those areas. Already Obama says he will stabilize the levees in NO if he's elected. No one seems to have done that so far since Katrina. Obama has said he wants us out of Iraq but realizes we can't just drop everything and leave (Clinton), but we shouldn't have to stay there indefinitely (McCain). Obama will negotiate with Iran and avoid a major conflict. Stay tuned to hear more!

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"For most of our history we have been blessed with a two-party system that made it inevitable that, when we divided, one side would have a majority, even if a small one, and could therefore govern. Instead of a campaign based on the fantasy of overcoming divisiveness, it would be good to learn what choices Senator Obama thinks we should make. He could use the practice. Just in case he gets elected and has to, you know, divide us."

Political Mavens » In Praise of Division

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There has been a lot of loose talk lately about “overcoming divisiveness” and “coming together” and “bridging gaps”. The people who talk this way need to explain what they mean, if indeed they really know what they mean. Because that does not sound like Democracy but rather fascism.

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Exactly... there should be some blue water distance between the political divide and we should have passionate debate . I guarantee no one debates politics in N.Korea.

Obama is all packaging . Read his book and beyond calls for bipartisanship he has the Democrat talking points down pat. Bipartisanship of course means everyone should drift leftward.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Bipartisanship of course means everyone should drift leftward.

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Exactly!

I do have to question the premise that blacks aren't voting for him because he's black, or that women aren't voting for Hillary because she's a woman. Look at some stats from Super Duper Tuesday:
Look at it from this point when Rev. Jackson or Al Sharpton ran for pres. There was like a 20 something percent turn out for blacks voters. Now you had an 82% turn out for Obama. I get a little upset when people think that black people are so nieve that the only reason we would vote for Obama was because he is black. A lot of blacks feel he in touch with their experiences and like I said before" I think he would eat dinner with me." He has stood and has distinct positions on all of the issues, sometimes you have to look it up for yourself . People think we just sit around and get all of our information from watching TV. Like the three whites guys I spoke of earlier.
Why would he say all of his good ideas on TV so early in the race? So people can steal them and use his catch phrases, like before? If I was a political stragatist I would not take that route either. Yes some people might vote because he is black, just like you would vote for the person you feel embodies most, or all of your views If they happen to be of your race that would just be a bonus.
There are a lot of candidates who say one thing on TV but vote another way they have a word for them call "flip floppers". If you need to now where Obama stands on an issue just let me know I tell how to find out.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

No doubt the men Clinton was speaking of deserved a thorough "intellectual" beating :D

I do have to question the premise that blacks aren't voting for him because he's black, or that women aren't voting for Hillary because she's a woman. Look at some stats from Super Duper Tuesday:



Do you really think 82 percent of blacks support Obama because of what he's done or what he stands for? Same for Hillary:



I can't tell you how many times I've heard from exit polls and interviews "it's time for a black president," "we've come a long way," we're breaking down barriers," "let's give a black man (or a woman) a chance" or "I connected with Hillary" after her NH show.

Great, I'm all for those things but I would never vote for or against a candidate because of race or gender - or in the case of the GOP, a white male, a Mormon, a Baptist preacher or just because they can beat the Democrat. It sure seems to me like a whole lot of people are doing just that with little regard for the things that really matter. All of these things can be part of the equation but shouldn't be the primary factor.

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Look at it from this point when Rev. Jackson or Al Sharpton ran for pres. There was like a 20 something percent turn out for blacks voters. Now you had an 82% turn out for Obama. I get a little upset when people think that black people are so nieve that the only reason we would vote for Obama was because he is black. A lot of blacks feel he in touch with their experiences and like I said before" I think he would eat dinner with me." He has stood and has distinct positions on all of the issues, sometimes you have to look it up for yourself . People think we just sit around and get all of our information from watching TV. Like the three whites guys I spoke of earlier.
Why would he say all of his good ideas on TV so early in the race? So people can steal them and use his catch phrases, like before? If I was a political stragatist I would not take that route either. Yes some people might vote because he is black, just like you would vote for the person you feel embodies most, or all of your views If they happen to be of your race that would just be a bonus.
There are a lot of candidates who say one thing on TV but vote another way they have a word for them call "flip floppers". If you need to now where Obama stands on an issue just let me know I tell how to find out.

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Originally Posted by Dark_crow

That’s peachy-keen and if that is what Obama is talking about fine. But what about Iraq, Iran, immigration, foreign policy, abortion, and health care?

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If you really want to know where he stands on those issues just goggle Obama stances on issues and h is voting record. Or you can just sit around and wait for it to come TV. Trust me there is plenty of substance. If we can stop spending over 200 billion a year( in 4 years that can be over 600billion. Imagine what it could be in 100 years like Mccains says, that is how long we will be in Iraq)( I love that stance on Iraq:p ) on other things we just might can covert that into other things that will help our ecconomy, colleges, teachers, and immigration. Maybe if we could somehow convince other countries that we are doing thing for legitimate reason, we just might be able to get some help on combating terrorism. Instead of looking like we are the terrorist.( " I am not saying I think we are terrorist, before you get you feathers in an uproar, that is just how we are perceived around the most of the world.") Maybe if our talk was backed by our actions we could convince the Middle east that we really want peace for the sake of man kind and not special interest. This is what he means by "bridging gaps". Will it be easy Obama says no, but can it be done I feel it is worth the try.

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Originally Posted by kp2171

time to unsubscribe from this thread. completely off topic.

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Check my latest post. There is still more substance I like your input

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Originally Posted by Dark_crow

"For most of our history we have been blessed with a two-party system that made it inevitable that, when we divided, one side would have a majority, even if a small one, and could therefore govern. Instead of a campaign based on the fantasy of overcoming divisiveness, it would be good to learn what choices Senator Obama thinks we should make. He could use the practice. Just in case he gets elected and has to, you know, divide us."

Political Mavens » In Praise of Division

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Was it fantasy that allows you to say " Our country"? That you would have a voice in congress? To get paid equal wages with whites? To own your home? That Russia wold fall without a physical conflict... My point is that many real things start as fantasy, or in DR. Kings words a "Dream".

Clinton

That is an almost perfect Parroting of the Democratic Position; I simply disagree and especially in regards to your implication that the world is not cooperating in the War on Terror and also about Iraq.

Sarkozy, from France has this to say about America:

From the very beginning, the American dream meant proving to all mankind that freedom, justice, human rights and democracy were no utopia but were rather the most realistic policy there is and the most likely to improve the fate of every person.
America did not tell the millions of men and women who came from every country in the world and who—with their hands, their intelligence and their heart—built the greatest nation in the world: "Come, and everything will be given to you." She said: "Come, and the only limits to what you'll be able to achieve will be your own courage and your own talent." America embodies this extraordinary ability to grant every person a second chance.
What made America great was her ability to transform her own dream into hope for all mankind.
The men and women of my generation remember the Marshall Plan that allowed their fathers to rebuild a devastated Europe. They remember the Cold War, during which America again stood as the bulwark of the Free World against the threat of new tyranny.
Fundamentally, what are those who love America asking of her, if not to remain forever true to her founding values?

Together we must fight against terrorism. On September 11, 2001, all of France—petrified with horror—rallied to the side of the American people. The front-page headline of one of our major dailies read: "We are all American." And on that day, when you were mourning for so many dead, never had America appeared to us as so great, so dignified, so strong. The terrorists had thought they would weaken you. They made you greater. The entire world felt admiration for the courage of the American people. And from day one, France decided to participate shoulder to shoulder with you in the war in Afghanistan. Let me tell you solemnly today: France will remain engaged in Afghanistan as long as it takes, because what's at stake in that country is the future of our values and that of the Atlantic Alliance. For me, failure is not an option. Terrorism will not win because democracies are not weak, because we are not afraid of this barbarism. America can count on France.
Read it all in the link I provided below…every American should read it regularly.

Speech by President Sarkozy Before Congress - November 7, 2007 - The New York Sun

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Originally Posted by Dark_crow

Clinton

That is an almost perfect Parroting of the Democratic Position; I simply disagree and especially in regards to your implication that the world is not cooperating in the War on Terror and also about Iraq.

Sarkozy, from France has this to say about America:

From the very beginning, the American dream meant proving to all mankind that freedom, justice, human rights and democracy were no utopia but were rather the most realistic policy there is and the most likely to improve the fate of each and every person.
America did not tell the millions of men and women who came from every country in the world and who—with their hands, their intelligence and their heart—built the greatest nation in the world: "Come, and everything will be given to you." She said: "Come, and the only limits to what you'll be able to achieve will be your own courage and your own talent." America embodies this extraordinary ability to grant each and every person a second chance.
What made America great was her ability to transform her own dream into hope for all mankind.
The men and women of my generation remember the Marshall Plan that allowed their fathers to rebuild a devastated Europe. They remember the Cold War, during which America again stood as the bulwark of the Free World against the threat of new tyranny.
Fundamentally, what are those who love America asking of her, if not to remain forever true to her founding values?

Together we must fight against terrorism. On September 11, 2001, all of France—petrified with horror—rallied to the side of the American people. The front-page headline of one of our major dailies read: "We are all American." And on that day, when you were mourning for so many dead, never had America appeared to us as so great, so dignified, so strong. The terrorists had thought they would weaken you. They made you greater. The entire world felt admiration for the courage of the American people. And from day one, France decided to participate shoulder to shoulder with you in the war in Afghanistan. Let me tell you solemnly today: France will remain engaged in Afghanistan as long as it takes, because what's at stake in that country is the future of our values and that of the Atlantic Alliance. For me, failure is not an option. Terrorism will not win because democracies are not weak, because we are not afraid of this barbarism. America can count on France.
Read it all in the link I provided below…every American should read it regularly.

Speech by President Sarkozy Before Congress - November 7, 2007 - The New York Sun

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Just like I said before Talk Did you read today's news"(AP) France's president Tuesday ruled out sending French troops to Iraq, following India and Germany in rejecting U.S. calls for help without approval from the United Nations.

Although a few nations are sending troops, near daily guerrilla attacks - many of them deadly - and growing doubts about the basis for the war are complicating Washington's search for peacekeepers to replace exhausted American troops in Iraq.

In Paris, President Jacques Chirac, a leading opponent of the war, told the Czech president that sending French soldiers to Iraq "cannot be imagined in the current context."

He cited comments last week by his foreign minister, Dominique de Villepin, who said a French role was unthinkable without approval by the U.N. Security Council.

India also rejected a U.S. request for peacekeepers for Iraq, saying Monday it would consider such a move only under a U.N. mandate. And German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder said last week that his country would consider sending peacekeepers only if asked by an interim Iraqi government or the United Nations.

"We are very consciously not with troops in Iraq," German Foreign Minister Joschka Fischer said Tuesday. "The German position about this did not change."

Oh yea I am not a Democrat. I am not constrained by by suck things as party lines. Are you?

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Originally Posted by Dark_crow

Clinton

That is an almost perfect Parroting of the Democratic Position; I simply disagree and especially in regards to your implication that the world is not cooperating in the War on Terror and also about Iraq.

Sarkozy, from France has this to say about America:

From the very beginning, the American dream meant proving to all mankind that freedom, justice, human rights and democracy were no utopia but were rather the most realistic policy there is and the most likely to improve the fate of each and every person.
America did not tell the millions of men and women who came from every country in the world and who—with their hands, their intelligence and their heart—built the greatest nation in the world: "Come, and everything will be given to you." She said: "Come, and the only limits to what you'll be able to achieve will be your own courage and your own talent." America embodies this extraordinary ability to grant each and every person a second chance.
What made America great was her ability to transform her own dream into hope for all mankind.
The men and women of my generation remember the Marshall Plan that allowed their fathers to rebuild a devastated Europe. They remember the Cold War, during which America again stood as the bulwark of the Free World against the threat of new tyranny.
Fundamentally, what are those who love America asking of her, if not to remain forever true to her founding values?

Together we must fight against terrorism. On September 11, 2001, all of France—petrified with horror—rallied to the side of the American people. The front-page headline of one of our major dailies read: "We are all American." And on that day, when you were mourning for so many dead, never had America appeared to us as so great, so dignified, so strong. The terrorists had thought they would weaken you. They made you greater. The entire world felt admiration for the courage of the American people. And from day one, France decided to participate shoulder to shoulder with you in the war in Afghanistan. Let me tell you solemnly today: France will remain engaged in Afghanistan as long as it takes, because what's at stake in that country is the future of our values and that of the Atlantic Alliance. For me, failure is not an option. Terrorism will not win because democracies are not weak, because we are not afraid of this barbarism. America can count on France.
Read it all in the link I provided below…every American should read it regularly.

Speech by President Sarkozy Before Congress - November 7, 2007 - The New York Sun

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You skipped over the points I was trying to make about "Fantasy?" Or were they always real for the native people of this country?

Clinton

You must either be a fast reader or just blew me off. :)

Whatever the case, Jacques Chirac, along with his Socialist Party are gone and good riddance.

We too must rid ourselves of the “Socialist Democratic Party” that has evolved and restore it to what it was.

I think if Obama wins he can thank -- boobs from Arkansaw

[TMP] "Does Bill Clinton cost Hillary the Presidency?" Topic

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Originally Posted by clinton mccoy

You skipped over the points I was trying to make about "Fantasy?" Or were they always real for the native people of this country?

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Didn’t skip over it, it wasn’t there when I last looked.:)

I’ll quote Sarkozy again.

America's strength is not only a material strength, it is first and foremost a spiritual and moral strength. No one expressed this better than a black pastor who asked just one thing of America: that she be true to the ideal in whose name he—the grandson of a slave—felt so deeply American. His name was Martin Luther King. He made America a universal role model.
The world still remembers his words—words of love, dignity and justice. America heard those words and America changed.

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Originally Posted by Dark_crow

Clinton

You must either be a fast reader or just blew me off. :)

Whatever the case, Jacques Chirac, along with his Socialist Party are gone and good riddance.

We too must rid ourselves of the “Socialist Democratic Party” that has evolved and restore it to what it was.

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But France has not sent any troops to Iraq. The troops they have in Afganistand are only show troops. We are doing 75% of the founding and man power in the war on terror.

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Originally Posted by Dark_crow

Didn’t skip over it, it wasn’t there when I last looked.:)

I’ll quote Sarkozy again.

America's strength is not only a material strength, it is first and foremost a spiritual and moral strength. No one expressed this better than a black pastor who asked just one thing of America: that she be true to the ideal in whose name he—the grandson of a slave—felt so deeply American. His name was Martin Luther King. He made America a universal role model.
The world still remembers his words—words of love, dignity and justice. America heard those words and America changed.

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Starting with a dream, hope, or Fantasy as whites at that time would have called it. Hey did you notice how Hillary won the big states( big money) and Obama the small states(the little people) can you see the analergy?

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Originally Posted by clinton mccoy

Starting with a dream, hope, or Fantasy as whites at that time would have called it. Hey did you notice how Hillary won the big states( big money) and Obama the small states(the little people) can you see the analergy?

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I have a Dream too. That one day the people in the mid-East will enjoy the same kind of Democracy we in America have. Unfortunately the Socialist Democrats don’t share that Dream. If Obama shares that Dream he’s with the wrong Party..

Yep, I noticed that. :)

I truly don't think so. All the racist haven't died off yet.

One thing is for sure . At this point substance has not defined this race

Would a white man who only had local political experience and then less than a full term in the Senate have a chance at being the party nominee ?

Would Hillary be a legit nominee if she was not the wife of a former President ?

Heck ;would a 71 year old women be in consideration for the job ?

I will repeat what I have said ;I read Obama's latest book . That is where I found his policy positions. Beyond the constant pointing out that in his view Washington doesn't work well (a quick impression no doubt from his apx one year in office experience before he began penning it. ) ; there was nothing that he wrote that wasn't right out of the Democrat talking points.

Now there is an interesting endorsement in last months Atlantic Magazine by Andrew Sullivan Goodbye to All That: Why Obama Matters

My impression was that he thought that Obama's campaign is such a symbolic break from the past ,that the symbolism trumps the substance.