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Where would the principal's gun have been kept so that she could have stopped Lanza in his tracks? She was just coming out of a conference room, supposedly at the end of a staffing. Would it have been a good idea that she was always carrying a loaded weapon ready to fire? Had the gun been in her office drawer, it wouldn't have mattered. Should other school staff have also been carrying?Quote:
Originally Posted by J_9
I'm totally on your side in this, and am wondering how she could safely do this yet be effective if the time ever came to use the gun. If she were in the washroom or away from the building, all other faculty and staff would have to be armed in the same way?
Oh, Lord WG, here you are over-analyzing again.Quote:
Where would the principal's gun have been kept so that she could have stopped Lanza in his tracks? She was just coming out of a conference room, supposedly at the end of a staffing. Would it have been a good idea that she was always carrying a loaded weapon ready to fire? Had the gun been in her office drawer, it wouldn't have mattered. Should other school staff have also been carrying?
The principal's (or whomever has a permit) gun would be in a holster secured to their person by their belt.
Yes, it's a good idea to carry a gun that is ready to fire. You don't want to have to fumble trying to load the thing do you? Revolvers are simple point and shoot.
Had the gun been in her drawer she would have been a stupid principal to place it there now wouldn't she?
If other school staff are licensed to carry, why not? However, I don't believe that there should be more than one or two people carrying.
16,000+ people have been killed behind the wheel while texting in the last 6 years... I'm calling for an immediate, nation wide ban of cell phones... it's a rational solution, that should fix the problem
Like I said, I am totally on your side and not over-analyzing at all. Staff comes and goes from the school. The one person carrying could be anywhere and not available. One person carrying a gun wouldn't be good enough. Lanza came in hell-bent with purpose and was a total surprise.
No, you're right, one person wouldn't be enough. It would be wise to have the staff educated as well. However, the person(s) carrying should not be directly in the classroom with the children. They should most likely be the office personnel.
My husband and have been talking about this a lot. He and I agree that there still could have been a lot of damage done before an armed staff person got to the scene -- say, if Lanza would have gone straight to a classroom instead of to the office. We concluded that there have to be even more safeguards put in without turning the school into a barricaded fortress.Quote:
Originally Posted by J_9
How about passing a law limiting the amount of ammunition that a person can purchase and own at once. I've heard this is done in some European countries.
Let's solve this entire death problem all at once, first we save 10,000 a year by outlawing guns, then we save 30000 a year by banning auto, next we save 16000 by banning cells, then we can save ,oh, 100000 a year at least by banning tobacco and at least another 100000 by banning alcohol, we have already banned drugs so that has saved us abunchQuote:
Originally Posted by J_9
In our school, it has been in place just this year, all doors are locked at all times. Parents and visitors have to come in the front door directly into the office. You cannot get into the school any other way. Now our principal, who has a CCP, is carrying.Quote:
My husband and have been talking about this a lot. He and I agree that there still could have been a lot of damage done before an armed staff person got to the scene -- say, if Lanza would have gone straight to a classroom instead of to the office. We concluded that there have to be even more safeguards put in without turning the school into a barricaded fortress.
Oh, Clete... Don't forget we have to ban cancer as well.
I would propose more requirements for people to buy guns other than the obvious criminal and mental health background checks. I think a literacy test, minimum grade 12 education, owning property or a certain net worth, and having liability insurance. This would prevent some stupid people from buying guns, and the property/money requirement would help keep guns away from people with nothing to lose, nobody is more dangerous than an angry and/or mentally ill person with nothing to lose.
Maybe I should've used the sarcasm font to make it more obvious ?Quote:
Originally Posted by TUT317
Interesting, but now you are leaving the people who use firearms to feed their families for the winter... foodless?Quote:
I would propose more requirements for people to buy guns other than the obvious criminal and mental health background checks. I think a literacy test, minimum grade 12 education, owning property or a certain net worth, and having liability insurance. This would prevent some stupid people from buying guns, and the property/money requirement would help keep guns away from people with nothing to lose, nobody is more dangerous than an angry and/or mentally ill person with nothing to lose.
Having lived in Alaska I know many people who do not work because they homestead. Their only source of food is gardening and hunting. I suppose you could force them to be vegetarians.
More likely this coward knowing that he would be confronted would've picked a different target.for that matter ,when the principle bum rushed the guy she could've disabled him with a can of pepper spray.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Gun free zones are a major target for lunatics like this. He knows he can get away with it. We need to do away with gun free zones whether it be a school or a hospital, or whatever. There is no threat there. No fear of danger to the person intending to commit the crime.
The Sandy Hook school was locked too, but Lanza broke the glass, or a window, to get in. All the schools around here are locked, there's a doorbell that rings in the office, and a visitor has to ID himself via an intercom and pass muster before a staff person will unlock the front door and let him in. But all front doors I know of are glass. Those should be replaced with bullet-proof, unbreakable glass?Quote:
Originally Posted by J_9
We have no glass in our doors. Oh, wait, there is glass, it's about the size of an IPad.
And then my husband and I recalled the dark theater that was shot up not long ago. That would be a gun-free zone also, but much harder to manage any kind of protection.Quote:
Originally Posted by J_9
Not if they allowed anyone who has a CCP to carry their weapon.Quote:
And then my husband and I recalled the dark theater that was shot up not long ago. That would be a gun-free zone also, but much harder to manage any kind of protection.
Gun control is a sticky situation. Honestly, I have no problems with guns if they are being used in a productive manner. But, really who in there right mind has an arsenal like Nancy Lanza. Wow! She knew her son may have had mental illness and didn't lock the guns away! No one living in America needs to have semi automatic rifle, it is strictly made for brutal killings. Certainly not needed in hunting animals.
Unfortunately, who knows how many people have this weaponry stockpiled before we can get some law outlawing or limiting sales of these weapons used for war. God help us that we don't have to endure another tragedy like the Sandy Hook Elementary Massacre.
Semi autos are also used for hunting. Not for brutal killings. I used one when living in Alaska to hunt and protect from bears.Quote:
Gun control is a sticky situation. Honestly, I have no problems with guns if they are being used in a productive manner. But, really who in there right mind has an arsenal like Nancy Lanza. Wow! She knew her son may have had mental illness and didn't lock the guns away! No one living in America needs to have semi automatic rifle, it is strictly made for brutal killings. Certainly not needed in hunting animals.
Unfortunately, who knows how many people have this weaponry stockpiled before we can get some law outlawing or limiting sales of these weapons used for war. God help us that we don't have to endure another tragedy like the Sandy Hook Elementary Massacre.
Nancy Lanza had an arsenal? God forbid you should see how many I own! I could open a gun shop with the amount that I own. However, I am a responsible owner. Many of mine are on display at a military museum and the rest are locked in gun safes. Notice I said safe not cabinet.
My husband is a master gunsmith. Our children have been raised around guns and know the dangers of such.
We don't know that. She wasn't a stupid woman, from what has been reported about her. The guns may have been locked up and Adam watched secretly to see where she hid the key. We just don't know if she was that careless.Quote:
Originally Posted by Parispam
She wasn't stupid, just slightly mad?
Mad about what? What was she angry about?Quote:
she wasn't stupid, just slightly mad?
Mad as in a few sandwiches short of a picnic
Why would you conclude that?Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
Sorry, I think my kids are better protected with a trained professional and can deal with many emergencies a well armed loonie can present before he gets inside of the school and unleashes mayhem and carnage. Many cities, big and small are redeploying police at the schools while we properly train your administrator or staff in the proper procedures.
And will you give these folk a raise for there CCP trained extra duties? Yeah an armed staff sounds great on paper, but I rather have a trained professional other than a secretary or principal.
Tal, why don't you think a secretary or principal can be properly trained?
Sure they can at a shooting range which is a far cry from police training or combat experience. Its unfair to have a civilian as the only line of defense of our children. I mean facing a guy that can spray 60 bullets a minute is not like a gun range or shooting a deer.
Sorry, trained professionals ONLY! Not inside, but protecting the perimeter. And just curious what the real purpose of 30 shot magazines other than the thrill of shredding a target? I don't think that thrill is worth having it fall into the wrong hands.
I am properly trained. Do you have a problem with that?
Unless you have the required hours of tactical training I would have a problem with JUST you protecting my kids. Or any other civilian no matter how well trained. No doubt you would try your best. Many would.
Now about those 30 round clips?
Aren't all gunnuts? They are like revheadsQuote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
This is where your nonsense with guns is taking you
Utah boy, 11, takes gun to school after Newtown school shooting | News.com.au
You need to contemplate the damage gun culture is doing to children, its not just killing them it is putting them at serious risk.
This kid has has his life ruined because of careless handling of a gun. He will be charged, he will be banished from his school friends and this is so easy, just a careless moment. What if he had loaded that gun?
Tal ,perimeter defense is a very practical idea. Let's face it . Suppose a pickup truck full of readily available explosives had driven up to the school and detonated. There is a good chance there would've been a bigger tragedy .But a guard manning a perimeter fence could've made a difference.
I think the Principle had the right approach ;and if she had been armed or had a defensive weapon like a can of pepper spray ,the attacker may been disabled enough to be subdued.
Rush to boost school safety sparks flurry of ideas and questions - Yahoo! NewsQuote:
Hundreds of school districts and colleges across the U.S. have also adopted a more controversial approach to safety: teaching staff -- and students -- to fight back in the face of danger.
The ALICE protocol, developed a decade ago by a former police officer in response to a series of school shootings, rejects as inadequate the traditional response to an armed intruder, which prompts teachers and students to lock themselves in their classroom, turn out the lights and hide as best they can.
Greg Crane, the retired police officer who developed ALICE, says rather than fall back on that response, students and teachers must develop the confidence that allows them to think on their feet.
If they can escape the building quickly, through a window perhaps, why huddle in a darkened classroom? And if an intruder enters the classroom, why remain passive; why not run around, scream, throw books and desks at the gunman, even try to tackle him, Crane asks.
"If a predator tried to snatch a child off the street, what part of our advice is for him to remain quiet, static, passive?" Crane asked. "We want you throwing things, yelling, trying to get out of there," he said. The same should hold in a classroom, he said, arguing that even 5- and 6-year-olds can cause enough distraction to confuse a gunman and perhaps buy a few minutes for escape.
"Chaos is not a bad thing," Crane said. "We want to see chaos. That makes it very difficult for the shooter to operate."
The ALICE program -- it stands for Alert, Lockdown, Inform, Counter, Evacuate -- has sparked concern in some communities, with parents protesting that terrified children can't be asked to confront crazed gunmen or make snap decisions about escape routes.
But Crane said his company, Response Options, which is based in Burleson, Texas, has been flooded with calls since Friday from officials eager to sign up for his $400 training workshop, which prepares participants to teach ALICE to students and teachers in their communities.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Well there you go. I though that your comment was an indication that you believed there is no middle ground in the discussion.
If it were up to you what would put on the table for starters?
Tut
Automatic weapons like machine guns should be restricted to law enforcement and legit collectors. I have no problem with restrictions on the amt of ammo in a clip. I have no problem with more comprehensive backround checks . I have no problem with registration of all guns .I have no problem with license renewal. I have no problem with the elimination of the so called 'gun show exception'.Quote:
If it were up to you what would put on the table for starters?
But the guns used in the attack ? Yes I have a problem with those being banned . Focus on the attacker . I'll say it again. He could've done more damage with a car full of legally obtained fertilizer .
Hello again, tom:
Nahhhh... He'd have to KNOW about a fertalizer bomb. He'd have to KNOW how to make it. He'd have to KNOW where to buy the makings. He'd have to HAVE the money to buy it. He'd have to MAKE it.Quote:
I'll say it again. He could've done more damage with a car full of legally obtained fertilizer .
But, the GUN was right on the table... That makes it SOOOOOOO much EASIER to murder these children. I know you don't understand... I'm sorry.
Excon
Tom get real, that idiot used a military weapon, just because it didn't say M16 doesn't mean it wasn't an M16. You need to get real, the manufacturer is running for cover, the investors are running for cover and here you are saying you have a problem with them being banned, I don't think the NRA has a problem right now they want to salvage something or things might get like Germany where you can have the gun but the magazine will hold two shots. Thing is Tom very few people go hunting dangerous animals and very few people go hunting deer so very few people need these guns. There is only one reason to have guns like this and it is to kill people and if you can still buy that fertilizer without going through a licencing process, well what can I say, someone over there isn't serious
Why a 30 round magazine ? Since most riflles that are of the class that can take a 30 round mag are considered varmit rifles then the high capacity is made for that purpose. When getting rid of varmits it makes it much more easy then to have to reload constantly and to scatter groups to where they might not be reached.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
You are so far off base I don't even know where to begin. What the shoorter used was NOT a M16. It was not a fully automatic weapon. They make the guns different internally on purpose so they can't be converted without special machining.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
And many many people hunt here in the U.S. as well as hunt very dangerous animals. In Texas and other southern states there is a huge wild hog problem. They are extremely dangerous.
Hello again, dad:
In order to have a few more children, HAVING a few more varmints MIGHT be one of the prices we have to pay.
excon
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