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Not to put it down, but do you know this is actually a event in competitive shooting. The contestant lays down and is timed on how fast he gets up gets his gun an acquires the target. I can't remember what it's called right now though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Allheart
Quote:
Originally Posted by Allheart
Yes do tell? Nice pic by the way. And what's the diff between owning a gun for sport and protection does that mean you can't use one for the other.
Agree hold heartedly. It isn't about banning them all together. It is about restricting those who can get hold of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottGem
It is the same with you Synnen. I have no doubt you are a responsible gun owner and user. And I would never want to take hunters guns away from them. Hunting is a part of life here as well. Once again that isn't the issue. The issue is the freedom of being able to walk down the street with one in your handbag. Why I ask? That isn't hunting. That isn't sport. That just leads to what we seen happen in Virginia.
It isn't gun eradication, it is gun control. Two different words.
And can I ask Synnen? Is it really believed that because you have guns and the right to bear them that it will enable you to take part in some hostile take over of your government. Is that really a possibility in the USA? Perhaps it was the case when that law was written but surely not today??
Thank you for saying that OG. I have heard that argument before and I would be lying if id said is didn't have more than just a snigger when I heard it. I mean come on, that is a pretty crazy notion to believe!Quote:
Originally Posted by ordinaryguy
Not legally.Quote:
Originally Posted by Allheart
Put it this way, I'm 24 and I have never laid eyes on a gun other than on a policeman's hip and my dads old pee pee shooter that he handed back when everyone else handed in their guns in the 90's. I do not know anyone that owns one other than farmers who own them legally and strictly for hunting and pest control. Wanting a gun so you keep in your closet at home in case a bad guy comes in is not a valid reason for issuing a license.
Im not saying we don't have them. And I'm not saying people don't get shot by people who shouldn't have them. There are bad guys that have them and do bad things with them. But me having a gun is not going to change that is it?? G
Gun ownership here is not something that we crave. It isn't something that we hold so dear to us that we feel our rights have been taken away because we don't have the right to bear arms.
There was a day in the 90's when that was the case. But it took the worst shooting spree killing in the history of the world to change all that. Yes there as an uproar by some but at the end of the day people just let it go. And no one would want it to go back to how it was. And it has made a difference.
A prawn is like a shrimp.Quote:
Originally Posted by Allheart
Prawn - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A favorite type of seafood down here. They are magnificent eating.
Yes!Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt3046
Oh God Skell - thanks for the info. But they look like little pets... oh sorry.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skell
I am sure they are good. How's the beer there LOL :)
Not when they are cooked Allheart.
The beer is even better. Nice and cold. Not like our English friends who drink warm beers and cold meet pies :) Weird...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skell
Then would it be okay if I requested a cold beer - but hold the prawn :o
I didn't know the English drank warm beer? Never knew that.
That's fine Allheart but you don't know what your missing out on. Ill even peel it for you.
They do all sorts of crazy things over there Allheart. Warm beer is just the start of it. ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skell
Then you have a deal!!
And warm beer is only the start :eek: :D ( I'm all brave now cause I know they are all sound asleep now having sweet dreams... hee hee )
Oh lord.
No... I *don't* think that we'd win against the government. The Homesteaders (or whatever the heck they were called) in Wyoming and the Branch Davidians in Texas are GREAT examples of uprisings (or the beginnings thereof) against the government that were smashed like bugs on a windshield.
The problem is... the people that are going to kill, are probably going to kill anyway. Would guns being harder to get REALLY have stopped someone who was obviously a bit off their rocker like the shooter in VA? Probably not. It would have been a homemade bomb (which at a tech school, I'm SURE they knew how to make. Hell, I learned how to make one in high school!), or some sort of chemical or *gasp* heaven forfend---an ILLEGAL WEAPON! Because we all know that THAT never happens!
I have no problem with gun controls... depending on how they're enforced.
Let me ask this, because I honestly don't know the answer: In Australia (or other places with strict gun control) is there or has there been the problems with crooked police? Or, which is more likely, police who stand by each other even when one of them is breaking the law? Do you have issues like Rodney King there? Do you trust your law enforcement completely, to give them basically ALL of the weapons in your country?
I'm asking because (obviously) I don't trust MY law enforcement to be on my side. I don't think that the vast majority of them are bad people. I think that I can't possibly understand the brotherhood that develops between officers of the law, because they lay their lives on the line to keep us safe daily. I respect that, and I respect the people willing to do it.
But I don't trust them. I've heard too many stories about grudges, and the good ol' boys club, and bribes, and the feeling of helplessness the law has against fighting an uphill battle with the courts (the police arrest them, and the courts let them walk sort of story).
No... I don't think that I need a gun to fight in an uprising against my government. The government is already destroying itself from the inside. And as far as protection goes... a good alarm and a large dog are better protection than a gun most of the time anyway.
Hi Synnen,Quote:
Originally Posted by Synnen
Yes I will agree to an extent that people that are going to kill will if they have to find a way to kill regardless. However, I feel that making it harder than it is at present for a gun to be placed in a killers hand is surely worth looking at. There has to be ways of making it harder to for lunatics such as this to get guns than it currently is. The current system is clearly not working.
Would gun control have really stopped this person from doing what he did? Maybe not. But it might have. No gun control laws whatsoever definitely didn't.
My answer to your above questions would be YES. Yes I do have enough trust in my police force and military to let them have control of our weapons. And I can say that with supreme confidence and without nativity. And I think 99% of the population would agree with me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Synnen
That's not to say that we don't have crooked police and Bureaucrats. Of course we do. Always have and always will. But as you say overall they do a good job and are to be respected.
But please explain to me because I think I am missing the point, but how on earth does you and other having a gun prevent this from happening or even help you if it ever does happen? I really don't understand. If you have crooked police and ol' boys clubs that stick together how does you having a gun change that. How does it protect you? If you get into a bit of trouble with an untrustworthy and crooked cop is your gun going to save you. I would argue that it would get you in more trouble.
And the same goes for if you come across a civilian that is causing you similar problems. What is your gun going to do? They are going to have one as well under the current laws so you have a 50% chance of not getting shot in some ways. Wouldn't it be better if they didn't have a gun, you didn't have a gun and no one got shot?
Its sad that you can't trust your police force. Really it is and I hope I never get to that point. But I understand that there must be mitigating circumstances as to why. I still just struggle to comprehend though how gun ownership fixes any of this.
Personally Global warming is my largest worldly concern at the moment. Are people so thick as to not forsee what is the coming consequences of our behaviour. We need to unite as one and conteract this problem by just turning off that lightswitch or switching off the TV at the powerpoint when we not using it. Why does it have to become so complicated. Don't be lazy.. Prove the government wrong when they say we are all lazy, fat and obese. Just get up and do it!Quote:
Originally Posted by NowWhat
Skell
It's not so much that I think that owning a gun would help me. I do, however, think that the fact that the ordinary citizen can own a gun DOES stop it from being worse than it is. And, as I say, I'm paranoid... I fully believe that our government is heading for collapse.
The big thing, for me, is that the government already controls too much here. I don't think people are REALLY so stupid that they need the government to hold their hands on everything. Wait... actually, people probably ARE that stupid.
As it is... our freedom of speech is being threatened by people who don't know when the hell to shut up.
Our right to bear arms is being threatened by people who hold a grudge against the world because somehow or another, they didn't get what they thought they were "entitled" to.
I hate the idea that the parents of the students who died so tragically this week will sue the school for not locking down campus, even though it was the best decision they could make with the information that they had. I hate even more that they'll probably win.
I'm all for gun control... please don't get me wrong. It SHOULD be harder to purchase a weapon than it is. The problem that I have... and I'm sure it's the problem others have as well, is that once you start putting in controls, you're on a slippery slope. Our government has a habit of doing things to propagate it's own power, whether it's for the good of the people.
I'm probably getting incoherent at this point, as it's midnight and I should be in bed.
I want you all to know, though, that I'm really enjoying this conversation, and hope that my arguments are taken in that spirit, and not as a personal attack against anyone's opinion. I've had a few lightbulbs go off over my head over the last few days, and have really done a lot of thinking about what people have posted.
Please see my reply (to Magprod) earlier in this thread. I DO believe that the lax gun laws in VA contributed significantly to this event. This tragedy was very preventable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Synnen
Hello Skell:Quote:
Originally Posted by Skell
Do you see how the insurgents in Iraq can stymie the most powerful military force in the world? They do it with small arms and very little organization. That could happen here.
The time to get a gun, is when they want you to give yours up.
excon
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottGem
I agree with Scott on this. More stringent gun control laws are needed. Would it have prevented the Virginia Tech tragedy? Maybe, maybe not. But the waiting period might have given the police, the university, and his family more time to help this young man. I am not saying it would have. I am saying it MIGHT have.
Exactly! That possibility is well worth asking legitimate gun purchasers to undergo some inconvenience before be allowed to pick up their weaponry.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuscany
I totally agree, Scott, if your intentions are honorable - would the waiting period or "inconvenience" even be an issue?
I don't have a problem with a waiting period, nor do I have a problem denying a handgun to a felon.
Like I said... my problem is that it's a slippery slope. If today there's a waiting period and felons are denied (which is PERFECTLY reasonable--that SHOULD happen) then who is denied tomorrow? And even though there would be a waiting period, I don't think that would have stopped the shooter in VA, just delayed him. His background check came back clean.
So... then you add psychological profiling to getting a weapon. Well, guess what? That would probably deny me and half of the country a gun. I was committed to the psych ward at one point in my life. THEN you start adding anyone on mood altering medication, like anti-depressants.
Notice that if each previous idea were accepted, the next in line would seem reasonable in its turn. What I am afraid of is that eventually only criminals and cops will have weapons. I would never use my gun on a person. I don't think I would even be able to use it to threaten someone (I was taught that you don't point a gun at anything you're not willing to shoot). I do, however, agree with excon on this completely: the fact that they want me to give it up is the reason I don't want to.
This is the 'give them an inch they take a mile' argument that gun rights people use to prevent any gun control legistaltion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Synnen
Should anyone with a history of mental health problems be allowed to own a gun? In my opinion, there has to be a line drawn. If, in the opinion of a compentent analyst, the person has the potential for violence, clearly indicated in the VT shooter's case, then no, I don't think they should be allowed to own a gun.
However, even if he had been allowed to purchase the gun, if the college counselors were made aware of the fact that he was purchasing weapons, I think they would have done something more to help him, possibly avoiding this tragedy.
I agree with Scott again.
If by not allowing people with mental illness (who trained professionals feel could hurt themselves or others) to own guns will keep our society safer I say go for it. And I am a gun owner.
Hello again:
Let me ask you this, Mr. Tuscany gun owner, dude. Would you like YOUR mental health to be judged by some bureaucrat appointed by GW? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I saw that about the "trained professional", but it's going to be a bureaucrat who is the ultimate "decider".
excon
Wow Excon.
First off I am not a gun owner dude nor am I a Mr. I am a woman a Mrs. who enjoys hunting and skeet shooting. All of which I would give up if it meant that my students, my family, and my community were safe. Do I think I should have to give it up. No. But do I think guns should not be in the hands of people that could hurt someone, or themselves or have a history of violent crime.
Thanks for generalizing me though. Own a gun... must be a man. Outstanding
Tuscany - LOL
I do agree with you Tuscany - dudess (is that the female equivalent of dude :) ?
As far as tighter restrictions on guns.
Excon - I agree with you as well - who is to judge who is mentally stable enough to own, and who is not.
Are we all not one bang in the head or one tramatic event away from - "not being of our right mind".
I honestly don't get this owning a gun thing. I have never heard something happen and then someone say... yes, thankfully they owned a gun. I just hear much more negative than I ever hear positive. But I think it is more so the fact that those of you that do own, do not wish that "right" taken away?
Before you all get upset at me, I would never want your rights taken away. I never want to convice anyone that my thinking on anything is the right way.
I still don't get what you all get out of owning one. I am started to feel bad for hubby as I am adamant no guns in the home. But thankfully he has not brought it up for awhile.
I say make the regulations as tight as possible, for all of our safety.
For me and my husband, owning one gives us - if nothing else - the illusion of safety.
I have heard stories where it was a good thing that this man had a gun with him - it saved his life. He was being robbed at gun point and he - being a card carrying member of the NRA had a gun also. When a moment of hesitation came up - he took his chance - turned and shot the criminal right between the eyes. Although, not before the guy shot him in the arm. But, having a gun with him that day saved his life.
Does that happen a lot - probably not.
Moral of the story... I have no idea.
Allheart.
I like how you put the one bang in the head or tramativ event away from -Not being in our right mind.
I agree with that statement 100%.
I am a gun owning WOMAN, but I use my guns as a form of recreation, not for protection. I have a gun cabniet that is always locked, the key is in another part of the house in a safe that is always locked. And the ammo is in yet another location, also always locked. That is the only way I would ever allow guns in my home. We have far to many children running around (and we don't even have kids yet) to have guns out. I guess I have gun control in my own home.
Unfortunately that does not happen in all homes. Which is why I agree with you Allheart, regulations need to be as tight as possible.
Allheart, it's dudette.
I think when it comes to issues such as these - there aren't people in our government that are middle of the road. They either are for guns or they aren't. And that is where the water gets muddy.
You have two sides going at it and nothing gets accomplished. Will the people that want our gun rights ever concede that regulations need to be tightened? Will the people that want our rights taken away ever agree to a compromise?
Will anything ever get done? Will these people not see the forest because of the trees?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capuchin
*****************************************
Thanks Cap - LROL ( Laugh really out loud :)
Tuscany - oh my I'm sorry... oh my "bang" in the head. What I meant was, if we bump our head. The probability of one keeping there senses the same is quite high from the time they are approved for a gun, but there is no lifetime guarantee that there is NO possibility that the once sane person, well, may, through no fault of their own, have something happen, and mentally unwind. Oh I don't know.
I want you all to have your hobbies and your feeling a safety -
I really don't know what the answer is, but one thing for sure each end of the spectrum needs to meet in the middle somewhere, just for all of our own good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Allheart
I did not even thing about the bang thing. Oops :)
I don't know if I feel safe, my home has been robbed, my husband has been mugged. But I do know that I take all the necessary precautions to maintain safety in my home. My guns and ammo were in my house when we were robbed. They could not get into the safe to get the guns, and they never found the ammo. So, I guess the gunsafe is doing the trick.
Tuscany -
I am so sorry to hear that. That had to be awful.
Glad it all worked out and it sounds like you couldn't have any more safety precautions in place than you already do.
I actually came home and found the guy in my house... it was kind of a frightening day.
But, I learned a lot from it.
And they got the bad guy!
I was happy that there was closure.
I don't want to take the focus off gun control - because I think it is a great discussion. But, I need to vent right now.
The topic of sex offenders has come up on this discussion. I just found out that a there are actually FOUR offenders and one predator within a mile of my home. I knew some were in the area - just not that close. That really isn't what I want to vent about. One of these guys is my neighbor's nephew. His record dates back 2 years ago. They never told us. My daughter has been over to play with their son when this guy was over their. Am I over reacting here to think that they SHOULD have given us a head's up. I, obviously, haven't checked the list in a while and heard about this guy through my daughter's 1st grade teacher. When I got home to check it out - there he was. I was shocked. They tell us everything else. When it comes to the safety of the kids playing at their house or in the yard - shouldn't we know. And what is worse - his offense was against a child!
Like I said, I am venting. I feel betrayed on a certain level. Yes, I am sure they were embarrassed - but like I said, they share everything else. I mean, I know stuff about them that is so private - I even say TMI! Please STOP sharing. But we share a drive way and our houses are pretty close- so it is hard to avoid letting our kids play together. It is inevitable that one of the two kids is going to end up in the other's yard before the day is up.
I am just sick to my stomach - I have unknowingly put my daughter in harms way. I try to make sure she is safe and right in the back yard a predator is waiting. AARGH!
Hello again, now:
Sex offenders make up, what 15% of the prison population?? And there's four living near you? That means, in all probability, you have a murderer or two on your street, along with several burglars, robbers, muggers, drug dealers and arsonists. Wouldn't you like to know where they all live?
At the rate they've been locking people up over the last decade, your neighborhood is riddled with exconvicts. You think you'll be safer if you know where the sex offenders live?? Snicker, snicker… If you really knew who was in your neighborhood, you'd move to an island.
excon
What level is he? Was he ever alone with your daughter and their son? Try to put yourself in their place for a moment.
I knew a kid who was on the sex offenders list. He was an 18 year old who had consensual sex with a 15 year old (who he believed was older). Her parents caught them and had a cow. And had him prosecuted to the full extent of the law. He spent 2 years in prison and is a listed sex offender. This kid is NOT a danger to anyone, least of all a 1st grade girl.
So before you go off the deep end and start laying guilt trips on yourself, I would suggest getting a fuller story. Its possible that your neighbor's nephew does not present a danger to your daughter. Its possible she was never in harm's way because they never left him out of their sight while she was there. Think what you would do if you had a nephew in that position.
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