Jasondebil-you are a very kind person with good manners and style.I would like to say you THANK YOU for your respect to your opponents!:eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by jasondbel
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Jasondebil-you are a very kind person with good manners and style.I would like to say you THANK YOU for your respect to your opponents!:eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by jasondbel
Children are small adults, they just haven't learned all the wrongs from rights, when they are small. My opinion, hitting is down right wrong. I have a 12 year old boy and a 10 year old girl, never hit them, I did tap their hands when they were much smaller.
Why do I believe this... adults get so angry and don't realize the force they use. Hitting is abuse, no matter how one tries to justify it.
Do we hit adults as a form of punishment when they do something wrong or break the rules? Adultery, stealing, battery, etc. Shouldn't we discipline are children with words and taking the things away from them that they like/love... Yes. It has worked for me with my children. I think hitting only shows a child you can't control yourself, that hitting is the right thing to do, when things don't go their way. I believe it leads to aggression and much anger and worse.
Children learn by what they are shown, not what we tell them. Period!
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Originally Posted by mariansc
Getting angry and hitting can definitely turn into abuse, I will give you that. But a controlled spanking is much different than an abusive hit. That is only my opinion.
The whole thing about kicking a child abusers azz sounds a lot better to me than taking away his "stuff" :eek: Just maybe people would think a little harder on whether they would do it. That is just my opinion.:rolleyes:
I believe this statement is 100% correct. It makes me sick when I hear about abuse cases that have lead to death. I agree that hitting as a result of a parent having loss control is abuse.Quote:
Originally Posted by mariansc
Please read this: MySpace
AS for this statement:Answer is "YES" , yes we do get punished for things we do.Quote:
Originally Posted by mariansc
- Robbers get shot all the time for stealing.
- Raged husbands have hit there wives for cheating. Even killed.
-One of my wife's friend was being battered periodically by her piece of boyfriend, so me and one of my friends took care of the matter. I doubt he raises his hand towards another woman again.
- Worse is when you end up in prison for something you did wrong. That's when all sorts of things can and do happen to criminals. I will spare you the details.
- Is electric chair considered hitting. It's a quick yet painful punishment as well.
I agree with what you are saying fully however some folks just don't have the parenting skills necessary. You might have more skills than your neighbor but you cannot fault the rest of the world because you can't get them all to think like you.
If we started locking up parents on charges of abuse due to a spanking. Where will all the children go... hopefully your house. And if we started fining the parents for spanking their kids then its only going to hurt the kids. Heck they may get it worse for compromising the rent money.
How do you fell about guys who fight professionally and teach that to there kids?
And in the end, spanking is not wrong, not harmful and not illegal.
It is a good parenting method to help correct incorrect behavior when other methods have not worked or the situation is so dangeroius it needs to be done.
The younger child is not just a small person, they are a child without the mental ability to rationalise and justify actions, and often the punishment is what makes them change.
The problem with this whole discussion is lumping a tap on the hands, in with smacking a kid around out of anger at his actions. Big difference.Quote:
I have a 12 year old boy and a 10 year old girl, never hit them, I did tap their hands when they were much smaller.
Hello again:
I agree with tal. We DO lump "tapping" in with "whacking", or "smacking". That's because we don't know what those words mean. In fact, those words, like all politically correct speak, are used to cover up a problem - not expose it.
If you notice, everybody here who lifts their hands to their children calls it something else. I, on the other hand, have consistently used the term "hit".
In order for us to be able to discuss the problem rationally, we need to use the same terminology, or we'll never get on the same page. In my view, the word "hit" is appropriate. It encompasses everything from a tap all the way to causing serious injury. Everybody knows what hitting is. Not everybody knows what a "tap" is.
In my opinion, you want to parse the word "hit", so you can hit and pretend you're not hitting.
The REAL problem is once you parse the word hit, everybody is going to parse it different. Your "tap" is somebody else's "whack", or somebody else's "beat".
If we can't decide which words to use, we'll just keep on talking AT each other, and we'll continue to suffer from the effects of child abuse for a long time to come.
That's my opinion, and I'm sticking with it.
excon
I suppose we all use words that sound "softer".
Whoa... child "abuse" will continue because we don't equate a "smack" and a "tap" with the word "hit"?
I thought, personally, that child abuse would continue because we allow anyone with the right organs to become a parent.
Some people think this is a black and white subject, but really it isn't.
Synn, are you saying that we shouldn't let some people have children??Quote:
Originally Posted by Synnen
I'll let her answer that but I can agree that some people should not have had children.Quote:
Originally Posted by startover22
I'm saying that telling people how to discipline their children is a half step from telling people they can not have children to begin with.
And really--would that be so bad? That you couldn't have children until you passed certain tests--like stress tests, and common sense tests, and how not to hurt your children tests?
Wouldn't it be better to not allow people with violent tendencies to have children, than to expose their children to the violence and THEN take them away?
It's not as much the violence that bothers me as much as the neglectful/absent parenting.
Well, me too, NK.
But since this thread was about the "violence" of spanking your child--that's the part I addressed.
I agree, some people shouldn't be able to have kids. There ia a long list why they shouldn't. Even if we set aside the beatings and the sexual abuse, there are many more reasons. But I know for good reason that if we let the government pick who and when, then we are all screw and a step closer to losing everything we live for. So, for us "cool" people, we watch out and do what we can to protect and nourish others children.
I have always played a huge part in other kids' lives, and I like to think I have mad a big enough impact on the ones that I meet or the ones that just come to stay with us over night and come to find out they don't want to leave for specific reasons. It breaks my heart. Just being somewhere with a gosh darn clean bathroom makes them feel better sometimes. Awww, dang, I suppose this is part of life, but it is sad at times.
That's kind of my point, Start.
If they start telling people (via laws) how to discipline their children (and sorry--but a spanking has no worse impact on most kids than a time-out does, or "stealing" their possessions and calling it a punishment), then why can't we have laws about who can have children to begin with?
I mean, it's in the better interest of children to prevent people with anger management issues, or sexual promiscuity, or no common sense from having children to start with!
Had the original question been "should other forms of punishment be promoted over spanking", I would have been on the side of so many of the "NEVER EVER EVER EVER HIT SOMEONE" people.
However--the word "illegal" smacks to me of a too controlling government putting its nose into yet ANOTHER place it has no reason to be in. I don't need my government to be my nanny. I'm a grown-up, thanks, and I can make my own decisions about right and wrong, especially since in this case it's common sense that you don't hit a child the way you'd hit an adult, and you don't hit a child in anger EVER.
Tell you what: I'll raise my kids MY way, you raise your kids YOUR way, and we'll leave the government and laws out of it, since we're all sane and reasonable people. Why don't we save the cries of "abuse!!" for when a child is really being abused, instead of when a child is being raised differently than you would raise them?
Very good. I think that sounds wonderful!
I've said my piece on this, but I know kids who have parents that spank them when they do pretty bad things. One thing is for sure, they never do it in public or in front of me.
Its just something people seem to keep behind closed doors. If its such a positive form of discipline, then why do so many people hide it?
I agree Greg, very much so. If I needed to, like I felt I did when my son ran across the road... there were people around and yup, I gave him a spanking right then and there. Also at the grocery store, let me tell you there have been plenty of lets sit and wait for this time out to be over times too. I am not scared, I have nothing to hide.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Quinn
I also wonder what goes on behind closed doors. It is scary to think think about it. I know a lot of parents who talk big, but when they are at home, they follow nothing they say they stand for. Behind closed doors is what really matters. As for me, I think I am the same mom here and there, and I think my kids realize that too. I may say please and thank you in public more often than I do at home, but I am working on that and have been for a while now! LOL:p
I think, really, that the reason I (and my parents) go/went behind closed doors is that a spanking is punishment enough. There's no reason to add public humilation to that punishment (unless, of course, public humiliation would add to the justice of the punishment).
You don't put kids in time-out in public, either. You also don't take their possessions away from them in public.
Tell me one punishment, other than taking your kids home, that you DO do in public.
I had trouble with my boys when they were teens, being there for me to pick them up when and where they were suppose to be. I went to pick them up with a pig in the back of the truck once , they never were late again.
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Originally Posted by Synnen
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I've done some pretty stern talkings to in public. Eventually I get a I'm sorry, and a full explanation on how it would have been prevented, how we are wasting fun time dealing with something that never should have happened. Etc...
When kids cut up in stores or restaurants, you have to let them know they better stop. They think I'm mean (grandkids), but by the time we are ready to check out, not only are they behaving, but get special treats. ( yeah, its okay to spoil grandkids, and fun) As for my own, they responded to the first warning, so it was never an issue. It starts when they are very young, and at home, where you can see everything they do, but I honestly don't know what I would do in public, if they didn't heed that first warning.
I have hardley ever put my hand on my children's buns. Not sure if I will ever feel like it is needed again, but if it is, I will do it.
There are certain things that can be handled a little later and then there are some things that need to be handled RIGHT AWAY, and I will be damned if I am going to go through a store with 4 crazy kids, so if I need to stop and take care of business and give a time out till they are able to walk through with me... then so be it. HUgs... that is what I give most of the time! :)
I have done time-outs in public. If we are doing something where I can do a time out. I have spanked my child in public as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Synnen
I also will tell my child that if she doesn't shape up then when we do get home a privilege, such as computer or TV time is taken away. She is old enough now to get grounded or sent to her room for "crimes" committed in public.
I think the showing up with the pig was GREAT.
Most of my punishments, as I reached my double-digit years, were constructive. I'll probably do the same thing.
My parents had a 200 year old house that had been converted into 2 apartments. They rented one half of the house as I was growing up, and we lived in the other half. They used the rent to pay extra on the mortgage every month, so that all that was left when I was 13 or so was the principle.
Every punishment we had from that point on had to do with renovating the house. I was late for curfew? I was grounded until the kitchen was painted. Mouthing off to my mom? I got to sand cupboards. Fighting with my siblings? We had to work TOGETHER on a project. What this taught was that we all had to do jobs we didn't want to, and breaking the rules would result in having more work for myself in the end. I also learned that the length of my punishment was dependent on ME. I had to work to my parents' standards, so if I went too fast and was sloppy, I had to start over. From scratch. With painting, that meant stripping and sanding and priming and THEN repainting. So... it was better to go slow and steady and do it right the first time. It also taught me to think twice before I did anything, because I really really didn't want that punishment.
I think that's a FAR more appropriate punishment than grounding, or taking away possessions, or spanking or anything like that. Of course, it doesn't work until the child is old enough to use those tools, and to understand that it's a punishment.
The only punishment I remember getting in public was, in fact, a spanking. But--I had been warned, and warned, and warned not to go to the store display, and I did anyway... and broke a display of china in the grocery store (remember those days where you could save points for a whole set?). My mom had to pay for it, and she was crying--there went half our food budget for the next month. I got a spanking for that--but frankly, I really probably deserved it.
Really--ALL punishments should be a matter of circumstance and personal belief. For me, as a kid, being forced to tell the pastor what I did wrong and have HIM set my punishment was the worst thing that could happen to me. I thought, as a 5 year old, that he WAS Jesus, and that Jesus was mad at me and wouldn't let me into heaven. He set me straight that he wasn't Jesus, but then asked me why I would want to make Jesus cry with the bad things I've done. Would that work for all kids? Absolutely not. But then--that was my point to begin with: not every punishment will work for every kid.
Choosing a punishment appropriate to the "crime", the child, and the circumstances is the parents' job--NOT the government's.
You know, Synnen, I love what your parents did. (working on the house) I am going to have to remember this when my daughter is old enough. What a great idea!
Most of America populace think it improper to spank children.
The other day I was talking to one of my younger buddies about methods used to discipline children.
We talked about "time outs", grounding, holding back "rewards" until the child displayed desired behavior etc. One of the things we discussed was the act of spanking and my friend explained that no, he does not spank any of his children.
He explained that what he does is to take the misbehaving child out for a ride in the car and talk. He said that usually this works and that the child calms down fairly quickly and really doesn't take too much time.
By removing the child, in this case his son, from the immediate situation and providing a change of scenery, the child is allowed to focus on something different. Once the child has the opportunity to change perspective, things get better quickly and the child has better understanding of his place within the family and begins to understand the families concept of acceptable behavior.
He kindly shared a picture of the process which I share with you now.
I just thought of all of us sitting and talking about the spanking issue, and thought this was cute! Poor little feller!
Ha ha ha ha! Very funny Startover. Love it!
Start that is freakin awesome!
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