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Originally Posted by hauntinghelper

But what if we are not dealing with human possession....hauntings for instance.

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Generally, a house blessing is done and of course there is a ritual for that. I go through a house and anoint doorways and windows with oil that I have blessed, bless water and sprinkle it throughout while saying various prayers.

Peace...

So because the Catholic church has a ritual for it means they have a better understanding of this subject? This goes back again to ritual starting to take precedence over the purity of God's authority. Not that the ritual is WRONG so much, but that it can begin to be relied upon more so than the actual power removing the spirit.

I've seen some strange things during my life and whether these are ghosts or demons or just last nights pizza I cannot be sure but I don't want to see them again but I know one thing for sure they vanish when I start to pray

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Originally Posted by hauntinghelper

So because the Catholic church has a ritual for it means they have a better understanding of this subject? This goes back again to ritual starting to take precedence over the purity of God's authority. Not that the ritual is WRONG so much, but that it can begin to be relied upon more so than the actual power removing the spirit.

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The Catholic Church has been in existence for almost 2000 years. It's not so much that they have the rituals, but that they have had the time and understanding to create them. If you've ever read the rite of exorcism, you will see the richness and comprehensiveness of it. To be honest, I've not used it much. I had a very great man teach me some basics, guided me and gave me the foundation of dealing with the spirit world. He was not Catholic.

The purpose (in my mind) of having a ritual is so that you don't go off on rabbit trails, which will get the host injured and yourself. The ritual keeps you on track and reminds you of the important things that need to be dealt with. The exorcism rite has three distinct divisions or guidelines. They are three different approaches to dealing with various conditions and the priest is free to use any or none at all.

I am much more drawn to Catholic writers, theologians and exorcists than to any other Christian denomination. In my opinion, they have had more experience and understanding. Father Malachi Martin and Father Gabriele Amorth are two great examples. But, there are those in the Anglican tradition who also do a very good job.

Christ has all authority, but I have to say that though Christ is present with us, He expects us to go up against the evil and do our job. We can't just sit back and say, "Okay Jesus - have at 'em". It doesn't work that way. Most of the cases I've done are complex and it's just not that simple to use one ritual one time or simply command them to leave in Jesus' name and everything is kosher. They will come back unless the underlying issues are dealt with.

Peace...

I have to say, I do believe in the possibility of the paranormal. I had an unexplainable incident years ago which may or may not have been paranormal.

Anyway, because of this incident, I learned all I could learn and then I joined a fairly well established "ghost hunting" group in my area. I went on numerous investigations with them and you know what I saw? Nothing. Nothing other than a bunch of over-eager idiots that wanted to be big important ghost hunters so badly that every drop of moisture, speck of dust, blade of grass, piece of hair, and camera strap caught in pictures was surely a ghost. They were so adamant about being skeptics first and being scientific about the way they did investigations yet in practice, they were none of that.

I saw countless "jokes" that made me disgusted. I saw one investigator shooting photos outside in 80 degree weather after it had just rained... golly, look at those orbs! I saw the second in command investigator take flash photos into a furnace room with a dirt floor and then proudly show his photos while exclaiming, "this place is ripe with orbs." Yeah, sure it was. I saw the "psychic" of the group start making wild claims of flying demons pouncing down on our group when we were at a famous, possibly haunted, college once things started to get slow and people were getting bored.

The worst thing I saw was when we went to investigate a house where the parents of a 12 year old boy were concerned with odd things happening in their house. They weren't scared of the "spirits" they had there and in fact, they even claimed that a spirit had saved their boys life a year before. They wanted us there to help them understand what was really going on. What did the group do? We did our investigation and during it, the head guy and the psychic started playing it up because we had radio personalities there and they wanted excitement. They played it up so badly... the house was under siege by evil spirits coming out of the woods! "They're coming through the basement! They're here! They're here!"... "Block them! Block them!"... "There's evil spirits, hundreds of them, waiting in the woods and they want to get in this house"... It was madness.

So the family had been OK before we went there... but we managed to terrorize them into moving out.

I quit them as I couldn't take it anymore and there were some other reasons as well. I just couldn't believe it and that whole experience just kind of jaded me to the whole paranormal thing. I know that not all ghost groups and paranormal investigators are like this. I know that many are competent and trustworthy... but I also know there are plenty of these types of idiots out there.

Now, I didn't post this to talk crap about anyone that does believe as I guess I kind of do as well. I just wanted to put this out there since the OP asked the question.

Let me see if I am getting this right.
Ultimately it matters very little what faith or how strong your relationship with The Almighty.
Anyone is subject to a "visit" whether spiritual or haunting, given the circumstances that may allow it.
Isn't it more common for a haunting to be attached to a place rather than a person, or is that a bunch of hooey?
Sorry, still digging here, and enjoying you guys views on this.

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Originally Posted by odinn7

I have to say, I do believe in the possibility of the paranormal. I had an unexplainable incident years ago which may or may not have been paranormal.

Anyway, because of this incident, I learned all I could learn and then I joined a fairly well established "ghost hunting" group in my area. I went on numerous investigations with them and you know what I saw? Nothing. Nothing other than a bunch of over-eager idiots that wanted to be big important ghost hunters so badly that every drop of moisture, speck of dust, blade of grass, piece of hair, and camera strap caught in pictures was surely a ghost. They were so adamant about being skeptics first and being scientific about the way they did investigations yet in practice, they were none of that.

I saw countless "jokes" that made me disgusted. I saw one investigator shooting photos outside in 80 degree weather after it had just rained...golly, look at those orbs! I saw the second in command investigator take flash photos into a furnace room with a dirt floor and then proudly show his photos while exclaiming, "this place is ripe with orbs." Yeah, sure it was. I saw the "psychic" of the group start making wild claims of flying demons pouncing down on our group when we were at a famous, possibly haunted, college once things started to get slow and people were getting bored.

The worst thing I saw was when we went to investigate a house where the parents of a 12 year old boy were concerned with odd things happening in their house. They weren't scared of the "spirits" they had there and in fact, they even claimed that a spirit had saved their boys life a year before. They wanted us there to help them understand what was really going on. What did the group do? We did our investigation and during it, the head guy and the psychic started playing it up because we had radio personalities there and they wanted excitement. They played it up so badly...the house was under siege by evil spirits coming out of the woods! "They're coming through the basement! They're here! They're here!"...."Block them! Block them!"...."There's evil spirits, hundreds of them, waiting in the woods and they want to get in this house"....It was madness.

So the family had been ok before we went there....but we managed to terrorize them into moving out.

I quit them as I couldn't take it anymore and there were some other reasons as well. I just couldn't believe it and that whole experience just kind of jaded me to the whole paranormal thing. I know that not all ghost groups and paranormal investigators are like this. I know that many are competent and trustworthy...but I also know there are plenty of these types of idiots out there.

Now, I didn't post this to talk crap about anyone that does believe as I guess I kind of do as well. I just wanted to put this out there since the OP asked the question.

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No problem. Thanks for sharing. Yeah, I know. I went to a house with a new "start-up" paranormal group and the lead guy was just overwhelmed. He and his friend were avid watchers of T.A.P.S. and decided they would start their own group.

Needless to say, I went to the house with them and was sorely disappointed in their lack of professionalism. However, I did "consulting" with another paranormal group who were very professional, intelligent and balanced in their approach. It's like anything else, give somebody a little bit of knowledge and they can be dangerous :)

Peace...

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Originally Posted by mysticman72

No problem. Thanks for sharing. Yeah, I know. I went to a house with a new "start-up" paranormal group and the lead guy was just overwhelmed. He and his friend were avid watchers of T.A.P.S. and decided they would start their own group.

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You know what was worse though? They had been around for a few years before TAPS ever got on TV. Like I said, they were pretty well established in the area. Once TAPS made it, they claimed to have been in contact with Grant and were very annoyed that TAPS wouldn't accept them as a chapter. They constantly talked about how unprofessional TAPS is (which I agree with, but for different reasons which I won't go into now) and how much better they are. Sometimes I had difficulty holding my thoughts to myself. Honestly, if the one lady in the group was really a psychic, she would have known what I was thinking and they would have got rid of me... LOL!

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Originally Posted by LadySam

Let me see if I am getting this right.
Ultimately it matters very little what faith or how strong your relationship with The Almighty.
Anyone is subject to a "visit" whether spiritual or haunting, given the circumstances that may allow it.
Isn't it more common for a haunting to be attached to a place rather than a person, or is that a bunch of hooey?
Sorry, still digging here, and enjoying you guys views on this.

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I don't believe that to be true, the reality is that we can inadvertently open ourselves to being oppressed spiritually and how that plays out very much will ultimately depend on our relationship with God and the person who ministers into the situation.

Hauntings are the result of something unresolved spiritually either as a direct result of demonic activity or some very evil occurrence whereas demons can possess a person and need to be ejected.

As to it being a bunch of hooey, no, there is always a reason why there is a problem but we are not so much concerned with what the problem is as in enforcing the soveriegnty of Jesus Christ over the situation

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Originally Posted by paraclete

I don't believe that to be true, the reality is that we can inadvertently open ourselves to being oppressed spiritually and how that plays out very much will ultimately depend on our relationship with God and the person who ministers into the situation.

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Yes that is clearer to me. Thank you.

Odinn - That is one of a few reason's I shy away from investigators and investigations. It just gets out of control and seems to quickly leave it's "scientific" purpose.

Paraclete - loved your response.

Ladysam - we did touch on that earlier... ones religious beliefs play NO role in how the spiritual world tries to affect you. They do however, play the more important role of how you react to them. Being a Christian didn't keep a spirit out of my daughter's room one night... but it did give me the authority to remove it.

Mysticman - I hope my response was not taken that Jesus does all the work. That wasn't quite what I meant. According to Mark 16 it is the church's job to go into all the world. And by no means does the mentioning of the name Jesus make every demon flee at that second. Some are stronger and they do take time to remove. As you said, many times there are underlying issues that need to be taken care of first. I only meant that when removal IS complete that is was all His authority and power, not ours. Deliverance may be instant (as was my case), or it may take hours of prayer and struggle. I think my biggest problem with using things such as icons or blessed items in removal is that too much of the time they are relied upon more so that whose power is being used. I wouldn't say, and hope it wasn't taken this way in previous responses, that using holy water or a cross or incense is WRONG... only unneccessay.

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Originally Posted by hauntinghelper

Odinn - That is one of a few reason's I shy away from investigators and investigations. It just gets out of control and seems to quickly leave it's "scientific" purpose.

Paraclete - loved your response.

Ladysam - we did touch on that earlier...ones religious beliefs play NO role in how the spiritual world tries to affect you. They do however, play the more important role of how you react to them. Being a Christian didn't keep a spirit out of my daughter's room one night...but it did give me the authority to remove it.

Mysticman - I hope my response was not taken that Jesus does all the work. That wasn't quite what I meant. According to Mark 16 it is the church's job to go into all the world. And by no means does the mentioning of the name Jesus make every demon flee at that second. Some are stronger and they do take time to remove. As you said, many times there are underlying issues that need to be taken care of first. I only meant that when removal IS complete that is was all His authority and power, not ours. Deliverance may be instant (as was my case), or it may take hours of prayer and struggle. I think my biggest problem with using things such as icons or blessed items in removal is that too much of the time they are relied upon moreso that whose power is being used. I wouldn't say, and hope it wasn't taken this way in previous responses, that using holy water or a cross or incense is WRONG....only unneccessay.

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Wow, you managed to take care of a lot of people at once ;)

I understand you brother. It's all good and I agree with you.

Peace...

I appreciate taking the time to clear the air with this. Sometimes it can take awhile to get to know somebody. The internet can be a hard way to communicate in that it is difficult to discern attitudes, contexts and emotions. I know I can come across as argumentative often, and it is rarely my intent... it's just what happens. I frequently try to find a better way to word things and sometimes I am successful and others I am not ;)

Just as you felt with the OP that you didn't get to talk to before the thread closed, I too am fueled by an intense concern for those struggling with these problems... and that can make me a bit zealous at times (not always a bad thing).

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Originally Posted by hauntinghelper

Just as you felt with the OP that you didn't get to talk to before the thread closed, I too am fueled by an intense concern for those struggling with these problems...and that can make me a bit zealous at times (not always a bad thing).

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Since the thread / conversation has been moved to more liberal surroundings we are free to discuss and even waiver off topic and back again. That is what the discussion boards are about and unless there was disruption like name calling we have a lot more freedom here. Im glad mystic presented the question and glad we all followed through and contributed to the discussion. Its nice to see as the rules are a bit looser here then in regular posted boards where they may be closed down for waivering.

Thanks mystic for your concerns and for starting this thread.