These two comments contradict each other somewhat!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt3046
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These two comments contradict each other somewhat!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt3046
I am not understanding how. I think my terminology may be confusing you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skell
:)
Wait I think I understand what you are saying, that if anyone can do these things it doesn't matter that he was a foreign student. Any way it's really not all that important, it's just my thoughts on a local subject.
Well, frankly, this incident ticks me off because it's one more reason "the government has to protect the people".
The government is too involved as it is! I don't want to be protected... I want to be able to protect myself!
GaH!
YES!! When he takes the oath of office, the President swears to protect and defend the Constitution, and take care that the laws be faithfully executed. Not a word about protecting the people.Quote:
Originally Posted by Synnen
Just piping in to say that I'm happy to be Canadian.
We have a gun in our home. I like the fact that it is here. Luckily, we have never had to use it. But, you never know. I do feel safer having it - although, if I did have to use it - I would probably be dead before I got the thing out. Having a child in the house it is put in a case on a high shelf - actually it is in two different cases - one for the gun and one for the bullets and clip.
I think that gun laws could be different. With the fact that there are so many of them in our country - I think that if you are going to own one legally that you should have to learn how to use it properly. Have a brief seminar on gun safety that would go through the basics.
When I bought mine (for my husband) there was a waiting period and they did a background check. No big deal. Then they just gave me the gun and said have a nice day. I really have no idea how to shoot it. (I know how to get it loaded) I just figured that if someone broke into our home I would point and shoot.
We plan on going to a firing range to learn - but that is just going to be for "fun".
Now, I know that none of what I just said would have ANY bearing on what happened in VA yesterday. It really sickens me that this happened. I think there was a real break down in communication with the first 2 shootings and then the rest. The college and police should be ashamed. They had information that could have saved 30 lives.
You know... no matter what the campus and police did, they would have done something wrong in the public's eye.
They very probably have laws and procedures that they have to follow in order to be able to convict a criminal.
Had they alerted campus when they didn't have an identity, how can we know that wouldn't have caused a panic? How can we know that THAT wouldn't have set the shooter off to kill in a different place?
It really irks me to see the campus and police blamed for something that was ENTIRELY the fault of some guy who went off the deep end. I am sure that the authorities handled the case the best they could with the information that they had.
If 2 people were just murdered and the police know that a gunman is possible still on campus - shouldn't someone know? If nothing else the teaching staff? They could have done something. They could have locked the campus down. Made it impossible to get into a classroom. Something.
Hello:
I hate the cops!! But, I don't think they did anything wrong here.
They found a murder. They find murders all the time. They had NO indication that this murder was anything other than any of the murders they investigate. They had no reason to think that a serial killer was on the loose. They had no reason to warn anybody.
A teacher was killed here recently ON the campus of UW, by her estranged boyfriend. They didn't know that's who he was at the time. All they knew was that they had a murder. They didn't LOCK down the entire campus. They didn't warn anybody. They were right. So were the VA cops.
excon
PS> If you ever see another post where I SUPPORT the cops, please kill me.
I guess when something like this happens, it is in our nature to ask what could have been done differently. Or maybe we just look for someone to blame.
This shooter was a student. There were 2 hours between the first shootings and the 2nd. At first they thought it was a murder-suicide. I guess there is no magic answer to make sense of it all. It is just sad.
All the politicians came on CSpam last night and had a moment of silence for the 32 killed. Bush gave a speech about how it it the duty of the gov to protect the people. They don't miss an opportunity these days to pound that into Americas head. The one thing they do know though, if they take the peoples guns, they only take them from the people that were not a threat in the first place.
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/crimin...son-82841.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by excon
See posting #6 in the above link.
Hmm. This request has been made in writing on a public forum, so I guess I am covered. So, excon, where might I track you down with my semi-automatic?
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magprob, I agree with you completely. It always comes down to the actual law abiding people vs "others". It is not just guns but with everything considered illegal.
Matt, the guy was from South Korea, not China. Major difference. Many South Koreans come here to study. Are you going to block all of them from the chance to further their education just because one guy was off his nut? I know that the government has a lot to answer for. I know that there is quite a lot here that needs change. I don't know what the answer is to these problems for the United States. For me, I am thinking...
Skell, I like what you are saying about Australia. Soooo, how easy is it to get a resident alien card or citizenship in Aussieland? Remember our agreement about Phuket? I know you aren't married. Maybe we can help each other out here... ;)
The bottom line is that I have been seeing an increasing amount of hypocrisy from the U.S. Government and our elected/unelected officials. I am growing extremely disenchanted with this great nation of ours. Over the last number of years we seem to be purposefully running full force and diving head first into quicksand. I am left feeling completely ill at ease. If an Inconvenient Truth is dead on accurate, I hope that it will come to pass before we become a complete and total "Police State" and I have to worry every time I head on out the door just to run a simple errand.
Ruby that's not what I said I said the government needs to look into the backgrounds of who they allow to enter the US.(I mean everyone in the US is obsessed with the backgrounds of everyone else) And I didn't say it was the polices fault, but whenever things like this happen it has to be examined, to see if there could have been better ways of handling it. The police are, after all, only human.
I agree with that. The problem is, until it happens, they can't come up with a solid plan to handle it. How do you plan for something like this? It is so off the charts crazy.
You made a comment earlier about it being another thing the government isn't telling us. We have so many people coming into this country to attend school. How do you know who to choose to sit down and give a "mentally unstable" test to? What kind of test would it be? How do you determine that? I am sure his background didn't show anything at first glance. He was a kid with South Korean transcripts. How long was he in this country? He might have shown up prior to 9/11 to attend college, for all we know. At the moment, the government needs to piece together all the unanswered questions. We will hear more in the coming days and weeks. I don't think they are withholding anything. I think this was a genuine, "Oh Mother of God" moment.
I think that looking at a tragic thing like this and see what we can do to protect ourselves from it happening again - can turn a negative into a positive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt3046
That is what we do as individuals - we look at mistakes that we make and learn from them.
Yes, so look let's look at the Columbine effect. We now have 5 year olds being suspended in school for sexual harassment and Boy Scouts being arrested for forgetting to take their pocket knives out of their jackets after an outing. Check the news reports on those. I am not kidding.
We have kinks in the system. We can't seem to get out of our own way at times. What is it that we have learned and corrected effectively? Yes, we are only human. That is the point. This stuff is so far from the norm that it is difficult to put an workable system in place. By the time we do, the greenhouse effect will have gotten to us first.
I know, sad but true. If a little boy kisses my daughter at school - he could be expelled for sexual harassment. (she's in 1st grade and still thinks boys are gross) I think it would be extreme. Not that I want boys going around kissing my kid - but it's like balls to the wall or nothing. Is there a happy medium?
Most all schools have a "No tolerance" policy. Yet, my kid has come home having been hit with a weapon at the end of a little boys arm. And, it is blown off. Come to school with a squirt gun and you are kicked out. What gives?
I just think there are areas in our society that think they are not vulnerable to what is going on in the world. We have learned in the last several years that sending your child to a school is not guaranteed safe - so we need to learn.
There needs to be more safety plans in place.
I agree. There also needs to be a little common sense in dealing with issues. It is not as if this happens so many times a day at every single school. For most schools, each incident should be handled rationally and logically. Some of the interpretations of the No Tolerance policies have led to over reactive hysteria on the part of some school officials. Others are too lax. As long as there are people in leadership positions who lack common sense and judgement, there will always be problems.
Some actions are "kids being kids" and you deal with it. Some things need parental intervention. The problem is some parents don't always know the difference.
But with school violence on the rise - what do you do?
There was a school in the news in the last year where a gunman came in and overtook a science class - let most of the kids go with the exception of 5 girls (I think) he sexually assaulted them and then killed some of them - if not all.
Then the school in Amish country - PA, where a sicko takes over the school and kills 7 girls execution style.
So, while we are expelling our kids for bringing unappropriate toys to school - nothing is being done to protect them by uping the security in schools.
Yes, I remember the story. And, the Amish will continue as they have been because of their belief system.
If you look at the instances, they are so few and far between. Yes, the consequences are deadly. But, how do you decide where to up the security and how far do you go with it? What would it entail? Then, there is the added expense of it all.
The problem is... when you handle something with common sense and logic, you STILL have people angry (and suing half the time) when the system fails THEIR kid.
How many lawsuits will come of this VA Tech thing, even though the police and school did the best they could with the information that they had regarding the situation? How many people will say "you killed my son/daughter by keeping them ignorant!"?
Bad things happen to good people sometimes. That's a fact of life.
Here's a thought for you: Most schools have a Zero Tolerance policy on any kind of weapon. Had just ONE of those students owned a gun and had a license to carry it, they STILL would not have been able to have it in the classroom. But... if they HAD been able to carry a weapon into the classroom, wouldn't they have been able to prevent the deaths by shooting the shooter? So... let's blame the students for not having guns, and the school for not allowing them!
What kind of stupid logic is that? Yet... that's the logic people use when they're hurting. They look for anyone to blame besides themselves. Let's blame rock'n'roll! Let's blame video games! Let's blame Hitler!
Let's blame religion! Let's blame God! Let's blame marbles (because marbles are DANGEROUS!)! Let's blame guns, drugs, sex, loose morals, Don Imus, nappy headed hos, the French influence, the IRS, the CIA, Kennedy and the Beatles!
(I'm a little wound up, I think)
But the idea is... teach your kids right from wrong. Teach them that life isn't fair. Teach them that you won't always get your way in any sphere of life, but especially in the area of "love". Teach them that the world does not revolve around them, and that while they're special, they're not special enough to get on the team just because they want it.
I'm just tired of everyone wanting everything to be fair. Life isn't fair.
I like your post, Synnen, you are right. When we are hurting - we look for someone else to blame.
I guess, for me, I need to find a silver lining. What can we take from this? What can we learn?
As far uping security - I don't know. I know that if I choose to, I can walk right into my daughter's school and walk around without being noticed. Even though I am supposed to stop by the office and get a visitor tag. No one will question me. I am not a "well known" parent or anything. But, if I can go around so freely - who's to say a guy with a gun can't as well. I have to say it scares me a little.
We have taken for granted that our kids will come home safe.
My, Synnen, you are wound up! Although, I do agree with you on everything except for the Hitler comment. He was to blame for the past transgressions dealt upon the world.
But he's NOT to blame for current transgressions.
For pity's sake, the man has been DEAD for 60 years!
I was referring to the fact that the Columbine students were into the writings of Hitler and that was one of the things that they blamed for their rampage.
Back to this thing at VT, from what I understand this person, came to the US last August. And what I am trying to get at is (this is my very own paranoid opinion) this was not a normal college student this person had to have some military training. To me it mlooks like a planned terrorist event. But keep in mind I am very often wrong about most things.
You know... outside of the US, there are many countries that REQUIRE military training right out of high school, before one can attend college. Whether this person was from one of those countries is beyond me.
It's that type of paranoid thinking, though (this MUST be a terrorist attack! Oh NOES!) that let the Patriot Act pass (the scariest act in the history of America, imo), that has the general populace cowed into thinking there's not a thing they can do to protect themselves, they must turn to the government!
This was some guy who (probably) found out his girlfriend was cheatin on him with an engineering student. So he shot her, and then, because he didn't know WHO the guy was, but he KNEW that he was in THAT particular building at that particular time, went in and just started shooting everyone in that building.
Please.. if you're going plan a terrorist attack, it won't be on students at a University that ultimately has no political pull.
This without a doubt disturbs me to the point I feel sick to my stomach.Quote:
How we handle our criminals - is it fair or right that a non violent criminal gets 20 years for not paying his taxes and the guy he shares his cell with killed a child, but will get out in 7 with good behavior? Am I the only one that finds that disturbing?
(I guess that is what gets me going)
And how repeated sex offenders get a little slap on the hand and sent on their marry little way time and time again only to one day abduct a kid (or adult) and do horrible unthinkable things to them... when they should have been lock away in the first place...
But it's all about "their rights"
I say who gives a crap about about "their rights"! What about the rights of the victims!! It seems as they don't have any or that theirs is not as important as the offenders... WHAT IS WRONG WITH THAT PICTURE!
Oh it just makes me sick...
I don't know about all that but I was down in the hood the other day and I saw a baby in a diaper selling weed.
Yeah Mag, that's how they get away with it these days;)
Were you buying? Or was the kid competition, Mag?
Quote:
Originally Posted by magprob
That's lill Joe, he's got the best stuff.
I isn't coppin to sh*#!Quote:
Originally Posted by Synnen
From what I heard on the news just now he came to the US when he was 8 years old from South Korea. Although I'm not and American I imagine that this is a pretty common occurrence? So unless he was trained by your military I don't think that holds up here Matt. But in saying that it wouldn't be the first time someone trained by your military turned on you ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt3046
No problems Ruby... Ill meet you at the Banana Bar in Bangala Rd, Phuket next Tuesday. Ill put you on a boat back here to oz with 200 others immigrants and pick you up somewhere off the coast of Queensland near the Great Barrier Reef. From there it will be a life of bliss with as little guns around as possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by RubyPitbull
I agree with what you are saying Synnen about personal responsibility. Most problems in this world come down to that. They really do. But it is a pretty simplistic view of trying to solve problems to simply say educate your children better. An ideal world would allow that. Everyone would be taught right from wrong and bad things wouldn't happen. But you and I both know that will never happen.
So surely some responsibility must be held by governments etc to provide a level of safety through laws etc.
So no ones is concerned at how simple it is to procure a gun in the US. No one see's that as an issue in this and other similar incidences. Sure they were carried out by whack jobs and maybe they would have happened still, but maybe they also could have been prevented. From an outside view looking in, and I must stress the word outside, I think you'll find most people see gun control laws in the US as a contributing factor to this.
And just so I hope I don't come across as sounding like I am American bashing I will acknowledge that Australia still holds the "record" for the most number of people killed in shooting spree in history. Please see the link below. But I will add that this was carried out in a State that at the time had very "poor" Gun Control Laws. This event was the catalyst for major Gun Control law reform in this country. And one which the majority was happy to see.
If you have time to read all the events that took place that day please do. A horrifying act carried by a complete and utter psychopath.
Port Arthur massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Gun politics in Australia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Yeah well I was going on yesterdays info. And I am sure that he could have been trained by the us military.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skell
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LMAO! Skell, I can see a rewarding career path for you in the "Human Resources" field (similar to "Natural Resources" in the sense that both are extractive industries).Quote:
Originally Posted by Skell
Ruby, you might want to check out his Better Business Bureau bona fides, and his Dun & Bradstreet rating before you write any big checks.
Heeeey :D - What's all this America stuff... hee heeQuote:
Originally Posted by Skell
Yeh, Skell, you are 100% right. I wish all guns here were completely GONE! What are we not getting here??
I just don't understand it, not one bit. It's just awful.
I put that in there especially for you Allheart because I know how proud you are and love your country and I didn't want to look like I was going after it. And you should be proud too. It is a great nation. But all great nations can do with some fine tuning can't they? However, as I have stated I'm from a different land and I know the right to bear arms is a big part of your law. There would be many that see that as a little scary but that is only there opinion which doesn't make it right. Unless it is mine ;)
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