I agree with tally in that even though there has yet to be a good solution to come around, we are figuring out exactly what we want to work towards and throwing up ideas and ways to possible get to it. And I know that valinor didn't say it, but just to make it clear, because it's kind of vague, I haven't done anything illegal in vegas. I know you didn't accuse me of anything, but I just want to throw that out there :). I agree with valinors that prostitution is not a one trick pony.
*Side note, thanks talaniman, I realized the word I was looking for was nympho maniac, not necrophiliac(I was definitely wayyyyyy off on that one)

I don't think however though that this has anything to do with intelligence, as the same number of high class business men that probably went to a good college practice prostitution if not more just as much as some high school dropout(because they can pay for it.) I also agree that it could be a "feeder" problem, because it definitely makes sense that domestic violence, sexual abuse, etc. has a large part to due with prostitution. I don't know however exactly how the high tolerance correlates, maybe you could explain that better, or maybe I am slow I just don't think how that translates to wanting to pick up a prostitute. Either way if it is a feeder problem, than how(now I am asking all of you) do you think we should stop the things that are feeding it.

It seems that we are not looking for one solution but many that lead to the same direction getting people to make healthier choices and it seems to start right their at home with the way children are brought up. Way off thread I know but it is related I think!

You have a point, but I am just curious to how you would accomplish this. Like would you sit your kids down tell about the birds and the bees than break it to them that prostitution is bad? Or would we give our kids little quizzes, such as a blond girl in hot pants walking down the street in front of the super eight at three in the morning.Do you:
a) Pick her up
b) Ask her if she needs a ride, then drive off
c) Ask for drugs
d) all of the above
e) Go home

In all honestly I agree with you it just seems that maybe you could put it in the school system, like they do with the d.a.r.e. program.

I was thinking along the lines of what Val wrote that domestic violence and sex abuse where keys to bad behavior later in life and its said that most prostitutes and runaways that get into the life are abused at a young age so they seek drugs as a way to cope.

Yeah I know tally, I was just messing with you...

I'm deep in thought and waiting on my first cup of coffee, Not a good combination at 5AM. And what are you doing out a 3am?? Does your wife know where you are?? :cool: :D

I'm a sucker for early east coast sports radio... lol

Eeek! My apologies Whizz - I have amended the post to reflect that too.

I'm trying to get a few things done before the grandkids get up and the heat sets in its already 85 degrees in Dallas and we'are looking for 105.

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Originally Posted by Cgirl

I am not saying there is an immediate solution to the problem, I am simply stating that just laying down and letting it happen is what this country is CURRENTLY doing. I am saying that it seems that some people and polititions think money is more important then solving the problem. I know that everyone ON HERE is not that way, I didn't mean to sound condesending at all. It just burns me up the way this country has let morals flush down the toilet, greed is much more important. The rich are gettting richer and the poor are getting poorer...and maybe if that was changed, including a better educational system for ALL, then maybe there wouldn't be as much prostitution and drugs and gangs, ect. I was not trying to say anyone on here didn't have morals, I was just saying I don't think that making Prostitution legal is the solution. I guess I should choose my words more wisely. No harm intended.

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I'm agreeing with you on the educational system as I think what they teach kids today is junk, and your comment about the movie "Pretty Woman" was Right On and sent the wrong message. I also noticed the ideas pick-up on this thread when the ladies start making their thoughts known. HMMMMM probably just a coincidence.

Your are right, but add the $1,000 a night call girl for the rich.

I am certrainly not for legalizing prostitution, and I hope I have not come across that way. I am only making statements and putting some thoughts and issues out there. I am not for legalizing anything that is immoral and harmful to anyone.

I think in order for a woman to sell herself as a prostitute, she has to have some issues of low to no self esteem. She does not value herself as a person, will allow herself to be used and abused. She has had to get this feeling while growing up. She was either unloved, abused, or even taught by her mother to sell her body. At any rate she has no respect for herself.
There is the male who has no respect for a woman and will look for a hooker for his needs. He was not taught to respect a woman. Then we have the men who use women as hookers to make a living for them. Again, no respect for each other or themselves. How do we solve that problem, how would you incorporate that in the schools? Those are issued that really need to start at home. I wish there would be a class in loving yourself, loving others, respect yourself and others. It is difficult for children that are not loved at home. They make up their own rules and get by as best they can. They learn to use others and some allow themselves to be used. Then they get into drugs. If they need drug money they turn to theft, prostitution, anything to get that next fix. Then there are the true sickies out there. Then the rich, remember the Hollywood scandel... Heidi Fli(can't remember the spelling) Anyway, I pray there is a solution for all of this.

I know what you mean about the heat, even though my house is airconditioned thank god, but I work out, and my equipment is at my house, and without really thinking I set it up outside. IN THE SUN. I can't use it now, because if I touch it, it's pure metal, it's scolding hot, so I am pretty pissed I can't really work out till late in the day which is throwing off everything I do, but hey what you going to do. The East Bay isn't as bad as dallas, we do usually hit tripple digits every day but there is no humidity, and I know the indian summer you are talking about because I use to live in the midwest, and the humidity blew. It just feels like you are in a sauna. The worst I ever had it though, was I was flying into chicago, and it had been pouring all night, like the streets were flooded, but it was during the summer and it was about 95 degrees out a night! It was like walking into a steam room.

Anyway, I was going to leave cassie some rep, can't do it though got's to spread it around to some peoples apparently, either way I agree with everything you said. And I think there should be classes on respecting and loving, and slowly schools are starting that because I have seen it in the last few schools I attended. They are these little 20 minute classes either before school or after and they talk about personal stuff with everyone and teach respect, it's pretty cool. South dakota has been doing it for years, it's called homeroom, and now the East Bay out here in California is trying to get that to come around. Either way I fully endorse a home room, because it is solely focused on the needs of children and their lifes outside of school and I feel the educational system has been missing that for a long time.

As for the east coast sports radio, I do actually stay up for it, it's called Mike and Mike in the morning... if you know anything about that it's on espn for like an hour, it's techincally radio but it's gets like taped on TV for about an hour, and I like to watch it, because I don't usually listen to sports radio, I usually rock out when I have the radio on so I don't get time to listen, anyway it's fun to watch.

This is one big 'A' problem and as hard as my brain has worked ,or not worked, I see no quick fix. Its been going on so long that is a complicated monster with a life of its own, so the only solution that I can figure out is to get a whole lot of people (millions) to raise hell with the politicians to make some long term changes and in the meantime (as I look at my grand son and daughter) make sure MINE don't fall through the cracks in this society.

I agree with you that it will take a lot of time and manpower, but you have to start somewhere, and yes definitely teach our kids that it is not right, because they are our future.

You got that right

Teach the children and help reclaim the adults who are lost. We cannot afford any more "them versus us" mentality. We are clearly all in this together, as I see it. At the risk of sounding like a 60's song: its going to take a lot of love.

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Originally Posted by valinors_sorrow

Teach the children and help reclaim the adults who are lost. We cannot afford any more "them versus us" mentality. We are clearly all in this together, as I see it. At the risk of sounding like a 60's song: its gonna take a lot of love.

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I agree fully with you! All We Need Is Love. . :)

All we need is a lot of love

Children are our future so true we need to teach them well

I am so glad to hear they are having classes in school. I believe we have got to get a grip on this generation.

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Originally Posted by Cassie

I think in order for a woman to sell herself as a prostitute, she has to have some issues of low to no self esteem. She does not value herself as a person, will allow herself to be used and abused. She has had to get this feeling while growing up. She was either unloved, abused, or even taught by her mother to sell her body. At any rate she has no respect for herself.

There is the male who has no respect for a woman and will look for a hooker for his needs. He was not taught to respect a woman.

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WOW.

I totally and completely disagree with you.

If a woman needs some money, why not have sex? It is big business, and people are willing to pay for it.

Granted, there are some dangers to it, but if you are short on cash, the money is good.

If I was a woman and strapped for cash, I might consider doing it.

I guess it is all about how you view sex. Is sex something special only between a man and a wife, or between anyone: friends, dating couples, prostitutes, etc.


And I disagree that any male who uses a prostitute doesn't respect women.

If a guy is horny, sex is just that…sex.

Again, I believe it goes back to how one views sex.

I respect women, yet I wouldn't be opposed to hiring a prostitute. (Although I haven't ever had used one….but in 50 years from now, who knows?)

I don't think having sex demeans anyone…

Just me 2 cents…

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Originally Posted by CaptainForest

WOW.

I totally and completely disagree with you.

If a woman needs some money, why not have sex? It is big business, and people are willing to pay for it.

Granted, there are some dangers to it, but if you are short on cash, the money is good.

If I was a woman and strapped for cash, I might consider doing it.

I guess it is all about how you view sex. Is sex something special only between a man and a wife, or between anyone: friends, dating couples, prostitutes, etc.


And I disagree that any male who uses a prostitute doesn’t respect women.

If a guy is horny, sex is just that…sex.

Again, I believe it goes back to how one views sex.

I respect women, yet I wouldn’t be opposed to hiring a prostitute. (Although I haven’t ever had used one….but in 50 years from now, who knows?)

I don’t think having sex demeans anyone…

Just me 2 cents…

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I would agree when the choice is made freely, but between abuse and drugs I hardly think you could call it free choice more like a desperate act of hopeless survival and that's what changes it from a victimless crime to a tragedy. When all your efforts are to lie cheat and steal to feed a habit, that's demeaning. Why should we as men care what hookers go through since all we want is to trade a few bucks to get our rocks off and adios, no harm no foul. Next!

There are definitely "low end" and "high end" women working as prostitutes.

Once again... drawing back on experiences from my youth... I can tell you that there are plenty of women who willingly choose the work simply because the money is excellent. They have standards as to who they accept as clients, have limits on what they are willing to do, and are otherwise very "normal" - with the exception of their "exotic" job.

That kind of business like approach is a complete turn around from the desperation we have focused on.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CaptainForest

WOW.

I totally and completely disagree with you.

If a woman needs some money, why not have sex? It is big business, and people are willing to pay for it.

Granted, there are some dangers to it, but if you are short on cash, the money is good.

If I was a woman and strapped for cash, I might consider doing it.

I guess it is all about how you view sex. Is sex something special only between a man and a wife, or between anyone: friends, dating couples, prostitutes, etc.


And I disagree that any male who uses a prostitute doesn't respect women.

If a guy is horny, sex is just that…sex.

Again, I believe it goes back to how one views sex.

I respect women, yet I wouldn't be opposed to hiring a prostitute. (Although I haven't ever had used one….but in 50 years from now, who knows?)

I don't think having sex demeans anyone…

Just me 2 cents…

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You have a right to disagree. My points are valid for a lot of prostitues, and the men looking for one. I guess it came across as ALL prostitues and all men looking for one have issues. I did not mean it that way. I know people that sex means nothing to them. Everyone has different views and morals. Thanks for your input.
In my life, sex has always meant something, therefore I have a completely different view of it.

Good point. With prostitution and drugs is one thing, but when women make conscious choices is another?Ǫ

Yes, people do view sex differently. Thanks for clarifying!

Good points

In thinking about this post a little more I've come to the conclusion that no matter what laws or morality say their will be those that will choose to do whatever they want regardless of what is appropriate or not. We all make our own choices and have to live with the consequences of that choice. TRUE, some can be helped and we should want to give help to those that want it. Those that do not, so be it, their choice not mine. In the end as caring humans we can only do the best we can with what we have, so where as I can have compassion for others misfortune I am not responsible for the choices people make. That is up to them as individuals what they want to do with their lives, as well it should be.

Very good point ! Some people will always want to be outside the BOX

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Originally Posted by talaniman

In thinking about this post a little more I've come to the conclusion that no matter what laws or morality say their will be those that will choose to do whatever they want regardless of what is appropriate or not.

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Very good point Talaniman ! Some people will always want to be outside the BOX regardless of the effects.

Your thoughts are right on

I agree with you talaniman, I do everyword you said, and that's why I am convinced that like the problems with drugs and what not, the only solution that would yield the most productive results would be education and rehabilitation. Because like you said, there will be people who live to go against the grain, they want to be unlike everyone else and will pursue certain interests to make that happen, so whether it is legal or illegal those people will exist and those you cannot help.

I agree with both of you talaniman and whizz kid. There will always be those that feel there is nothing wrong with an addiction and do not want help. There will always be those who feel sex means nothing. The female may as well sell it to make a living and the male who feels that way will pay. I do not know that it is so much as to go against the grain. I think they feel it is their life and sex has no meaning to them. In my thoughts there is something missing in the lives of people that feel that way, but it is free love to them. (well actually, paid love). Someone I worked with left her husband because he visited the "houses" and she found out. He could not understand why she was upset, he said it meant nothing to him. It meant everything to her. So there you have it.

Your right free will for all

At the risk of sounding judegemental which is really not my intention as I have no leg to stand on for that here -- there are some things I don't think a human can do without having been previosuly "damaged" in some way. And this may be one of them. I don't think that meaningless sex is just a difference in value systems. I think the majority of reseach in the field has determined that sex is very much meant to be an extension of our affection (that's the psychology of it) and a means to procreate (that's the biology of it) both. Granted there is a big range out there for all of us to fall on one side or the other BUT for it to be reduced to just an appetitual thing is by no means the norm for humans (although men will more frequently claim this than women in my culture).

From what I saw in all kinds of women who sold sex, mostly its affected by something else, something that is getting in the way of intimacy, sexual or otherwise. The image of the "Pretty Woman" is pretty much Hollywood fanatasy. And I would bet those shrewed business women/call girls mentioned here would not hold up under closer scrutiny as being as balanced as they appear.

This is not just another means of making money since it comes with some other fairly "heavy" stuff, like it or not -- risk of the law, risk of societal condemnation, risk of disease despite how careful you are, risk of being ripped off, risk of abuse and violence, even risk of self loathing in that you could wake up one day in immense regret, all this even in the best of circles. So it behooves to ask why would any woman risk all that. I think you'll find it's a complicated answer at best.

I know I am running dangerously close to soundling like I suggesting that lack of morals is an illness of some sort and that isn't what I am implying. But people do damage far easier than we realise and that has its effect, some of which I can directly attribute to feeding prostitution, high society or low.

I totally agree with you Val

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Originally Posted by valinors_sorrow

At the risk of sounding judegemental which is really not my intention as I have no leg to stand on for that here -- there are some things I don't think a human can do without having been previosuly "damaged" in some way. And this may be one of them. I don't think that meaningless sex is just a difference in value systems. I think the majority of reseach in the field has determined that sex is very much meant to be an extension of our affection (that's the psychology of it) and a means to procreate (that's the biology of it) both. Granted there is a big range out there for all of us to fall on one side or the other BUT for it to be reduced to just an appetitual thing is by no means the norm for humans (although men will more frequently claim this than women in my culture).

From what I saw in all kinds of women who sold sex, mostly its the effect of something else getting in the way of intimacy, sexual or otherwise. The image of the "Pretty Woman" is pretty much Hollywood fanatasy. And I would bet those shrewed business women/call girls mentioned here would not hold up under closer scrutiny as being as balanced as they appear.

This is not just another means of making money since it comes with some other stuff, like it or not -- risk of the law, risk of moral condemnation, risk of disease dispite how careful you are, risk of abuse and violence, even risk of self approval in that you could wake up one day in immense regret, even in the best of circles. So it behooves to ask why would any woman risk all that. I think you'll find its a complicated answer at best.

I know I am running dangerously close to soundling like I suggesting that lack of morals is an illness of some sort and that isn't what I am implying. But people do damage far easier than we realise and that has its effect, some of which I can directly attribute to feeding prostitution, high society or low.

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I agree with you Val, but read Captain Forest answer to my post. There are those that think it is morally right for them.

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Originally Posted by Cassie

I agree with you Val, but read Captain Forest answer to my post. There are those that think it is morally right for them.

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I did Cassie and what I just posted was as much in response to some of what he posted as it was others-- just so's you know! ;)

At the risk of going very off topic here, sex with no meaning is really another form of masturbation and one would wonder why the need to have someone else do that for you and pay for it too when you can so easily do that yourself? Its not just out of boredom, trust me. I think I saw a lot more going on there than that... is all I am saying.

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Originally Posted by valinors_sorrow

... sex with no meaning is really another form of masterbation and one would wonder why the need to have someone else do that for you and pay for it too when you can so easily do that yourself?

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A person who view's sex as sport or as a fantasy of their own mind would probably say that the ability to drown in their own self-indulgence with a prostitute makes it worthwhile. No need to worry about pleasing a partner - and the variety coupled with the danger makes it even more exciting.

I think most men - myself included - have a certain duality: We want meaningful sexual relationships that share ourselves with the woman that we love, but we also want the nasty, dirty, quick, meaningless sex that any willing woman can fulfill.

When you are in a committed relationship - you try to have both roles fulfilled by your partner.

Someone that has no relationship, or one where they care more about themselves and "their needs" over their partner's feelings, you have a person that strays off to the "willing woman" - prostitute or otherwise.