Hello again, Sanjay:

I see exactly where you're coming from. People who live inside a bubble have no idea how they're viewed by people living outside.

When I hear about "responsible" and "rational" spanking, I'm reminded of Mayor Giuliani when he talked about waterboarding... He said it's NOT torture depending on how it's done and who does it.

The people INSIDE that bubble all furrowed their brows, and nodded their heads in agreement. To people OUTSIDE the bubble, their mouths dropped open. To them, waterboarding is torture, plain and simple.

To those outside the spanking bubble, hearing those inside say that it's NOT abuse if done by "responsible" parents, makes ones mouth drop open.

excon

Just this one thought, spare the rod, spoil the child.

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Originally Posted by Sanjay Persad

Who decides who are responsible are rational parents? The parent would not say that i'm irresponsible etc...so i can't beat my child, if u see where i coming from.

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In my house I'm the responsible parent, along with my wife. Do you think the government can do better? Do you have an example of that. Granted, some parents are not as good as I am, but I have never seen the government do much of anything right so, I as a rule keep them out of my house, and away from my kids. If you are a responsible parent, and have your kids best interest at heart, you would keep them away from your kids too.

I don't agree there are so many children out there that are being abused and with all that laws its very hard for a parent to have consequences when it comes to abuse there are a lot of chainsthat have to happen firt when a child is in danger. My point is that I do not think that anyone has to resort to spanking there child. There are many other effective ways to get through to your child instead of having them fear you because that's all that it is they may not do something again but not because they have learned that it wrong but because they fear getting spanked I think making your child understand what they did was wrong why it was wrong and implementing a punishment to the effect is more effective and that child will understand that what they did is wrong because of this. When kids who were spnked grow up tey are more likely to get in fights at school or use anger instead or ration and that's a proven fact I don't think it's a matter of opinion I think that there are so many thick headed parents out there that have the attitude that its my child I will do what I want and I do not agree it is your child but they grow up and can easily leave when they are older and when they start getting into trouble the parents sit back and wonder what happrned

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Originally Posted by Sanjay Persad

Who decides who are responsible are rational parents? The parent would not say that i'm irresponsible etc...so i can't beat my child, if u see where i coming from.

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I do see where you are coming from. That is why at the beginning of this whole thing, I noted if it meant less children being abused, then yes, it should be illegal. You know people, sometimes it's OK to "ride both sides of the fence" and still be a great person. Excon, I admire you and you know that , but seriously? Do you think I, should be brought into court for giving them a swat on the butt? Never would I harm my kids, they are healthy silly and smart... Oh crap if you brought my kids with me they would be like what? I deserved that, I was an inch away from getting run over by a truck and I needed to learn my lesson not to run it the road. OR, I threw rocks across the drive way and after 3 times of being told no, I hit the window and all the glass fell on my kitty, I needed a spanking... yes I did, and that my friends is how a spnaking was used in my house.
I just don't see how discussing this any further will do any good. Not unless we help someone here to NOT abuse their child... Or a child that is being abused. So, good parenting to you, hugs!

Tough parents make tough kids who become tough adults. Some who defend our country. I would never want an army of passive soldiers trying to put the enemy in the corner for being bad... lol. (Fit Via Vi) a french term that describes how we have won many wars.. "Way by Force"

Lets face the fact that some kids are different, some are going to require an whipping every now and then. Or you could just dope them up on lithium, ritalin or concerta to calm them. Some kids early on (naturally) start testing and manipulating authority, one step at a time they will take it to the limit too. When all else fails sometimes this is all they will respond to.

Ive spanked my son a few times when he was young and he got the message. I have not spanked any of my kids since. I have spanked my neices on a few occasions for being deiant. (but swatts only) No one was tramatized.


I DO NOT think spanking should be compared to physical abuse. I mean when my son messes up I don't tell to go to the laudry room, turn the iron on and wait until I get there... lol. If you feel that spanking is that wrong then maybe you was abused (or have seen abuse) and that's understandable. Or maybe you've crossed the line ans are guilty of losing control when you get angry. Or maybe you are just a bit more passive than the rest of us.

If my kid turned me in swatting his butt because he (lets say 'Stole stuff again') and I had to pay fines and do time for it. That would put me at the disadvantage as an authority, as a teacher & as a father. I don't believe I would want to be a father in these circumstances.


When I was young and my pops hit me I wish then I could have had them arested. But I don't think I would have learned my lesson for some of the stuff I did. I was a neighborhood terror and contantly had the police at the door before the age of 10. (Thanks dad for getting it into my head on how to act right. Even though I know you held back a lot.)

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Originally Posted by hossbonnam

If you feel that spanking is that wrong then maybe you was abused (or have seen abuse) and thats understandable. or maybe youve crossed the line ans are guilty of losing control when you get angry. Or maybe you are just a bit more passive than the rest of us.

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Hello hoss:

Soooo, I've been abused... Or, I'VE been the abuser... Or, I'm just not interested... Dude!

What about simply thinking that hitting your children only produces hitters,

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Originally Posted by hossbonnam

Tough parents make tough kids who become tough adults. Some who defend our country. I would never want an army of passive soldiers

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which, according to you, is a GOOD thing. Sheesh!

excon

Scenerio: Well if my town was getting shot up by terrorists I DO NOT think id call on the pansies to help defend. I would call on a 'hitter' first. If someone jumped on you with a knife in public, what kind of people do you want around. I would certainly pull him off you and strike him in order to take him down to keep you alive.

I knew a man personally who was on the flight 93 during Sept 11. He was the passive man. And from what was gathered, my friend Mickey tried to reason with them before he was slit up with a carpet cutter.

I don't think its "good" it's merely observation. If I had my way I would rid all violence all at once. We all want peace. But I don't have that say, Im in it and this what I see and this is how it is. Don t try to change things that you are confused about.


Yin Yang Theory:
For everything in existence there is an equally opposite & for every action there is an equally opposite reaction. If there was no pain, then there would be no pleasure. No love , no hate and so on. If there was no mean people their would be no pansies... lol. I mean what would you compare them too.


As a last resort people get sent to jail for being bad. Do you think people go to jail to be around and learn from fellow nice people. They go there because it's a hard violent place and if you got any sense, you don't want to go back.. ever. So you act accordingly and obey authority or well put you away again. (people get abused in prison). If I had to I would whip my sons to keep him from acting up so he does and ot end up in prison when he gets older.


FACT: Physical punishment is effective

The very threat of it keeps people from harming one another each day.

I bet if you were babysitting my neices you'd be whipping them the first hour... lol

Hello again, hoss:

In your view, you have to BE hit in order NOT to be pansy. I don't subscribe to that viewpoint.

I do agree with you, however. If you want your children to grow up to be bullies and bad a$$ soldiers or cops, then I think you're doing the right thing by abusing them.

Me?? I raised adults - not soldiers. You're free to call them pansies if that floats your boat. You're also free to think that everybody in jail is "bad". I can't correct ALL your wrongheaded thinking.

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Originally Posted by hossbonnam

Physical punishment is effective. The very threat of it keeps people from harming one another each day.

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In your world, I'm sure that's true.

In MINE, however, I don't hit people because it isn't civilized. I'm also equally sure, that you haven't a clue what I'm talking about.

excon

I don't have a separate world as you keep describing.
I still don't think spanking should be illegal.

Even civilized people spank their children when necessary.

I also let my son play sports even though I know he's going to get hurt from time to time.
I love competition and camaraderie. He will learn much. I will teach my son to be the Alpha and you show yours to be the Omega.

Historically:
Lest we forget the methods to which our provisions have been made.

I only here because of the caring people before my time were effective (not passive).
In early time it was necessary for even the kids to do their part in order to survive. If they did not do there part RANDOM EXAMPLE: wood piles ran low and people froze to death. Ill be damned if a boy didn't get his assed whipped for being defiant not doing his choirs.


"Spare the Rod and Spoil the child" used to be a common phrase and very true back in the day.


What is your view on spanking your dog when they are disobedient ?
what if they are biting the kids?
what if your child is biting kids?

Hello again, hoss:

I'm really glad you're here. I DO appreciate your being out front about your views. You DO reflect middle America and you are PERFECT for this thread.

You exemplify everything that I've been saying. If you weren't real, people would accuse me of planting you here.

excon

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hossbonnam

when i was young and my pops hit me I wish then i could have had them arested. But i dont think i would have learned my lesson for some of the stuff i did. I was a neighborhood terror and contantly had the police at the door before the age of 10.

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Oddly enough I don't spank my kids and no cops have ever been at my door. I wonder why?

I do spank my child - very, very rarely. But it is an option in our displine, depending on the "crime".
It is the last thing I want to do. But sometimes, it has been warranted.

I was spanked as a child - I have never been in trouble. So, what does that say. I am not sure.

I did a paper on this once. Based on my research I have discovered that:

- It teaches your child that violence is an acceptable way to express anger and deal with conflict. This contradicts the rest of how you are trying to raise your child.

- It is painful. Deliberately instilling pain on your child is cruel (even if you believe it's “for their own good”).

- It's harmful emotionally for you. Have you ever felt wonderful after hitting a child?

- It's harmful emotionally for the child, creates resentment.

- Spanking tells a child she/he is powerless.

- It breaks trust and invades a child's sense of security.

- It halts effective communication.

- Where do you go from there? Once you resort to physical discipline, the only steps “up” are more, or stronger physical discipline. Don't start down that path.
It doesn't work! In the very, very short term, you may stop the misbehavior. The backlash is not worth the very, very short term.

N.B I can't remember where I got this info from so please excuse me as I have not cited a source as this info was conducted out by research.

Hello again, hoss:

I find that I must respond again... You keep referring to pansies and alphas and omegas as though you know what they're all about. You don't. You know about being mean. An alpha male isn't mean, he's a leader.

That's a distinction you don't get.

I'll use myself as an example. I wasn't abused as a child, yet I found the need to defend my country when it was my time. I spent 5.5 years on the battlefields of Vietnam. I killed my share. I'm as alpha as you get, and I don't have a mean bone in my body.

So, with all your alpha bravado, how much blood have YOU spilled for your country?? I spilled PLENTY.

excon

No, it was only because of me that got in trouble. My 4 brothers and sisters were not as ornery. They never got in trouble with cops there whole life. But they did get a well deserved whipping when they were younger for mis beaving around the house.

Im glad for you and your well behaved children, unfortunately some folks are not as blessed. You are only one instance. So if you that not hitting your kids equals them not getting in trouble with the law. That is absurd. You're just lucky at being a good parent.

I living breathing proof that discipline works. Ive developed into a well behaved adult, a good father, a good Christian. I have an excellent career as a concept designer. And Im happy I don't get in trouble any more. Lol


Truth:
Fragile kids break easily.

I was spanked FIVE TIMES as a child. I remember EXACTLY what I did to deserve those spankings.

The spankings were resorted to when a time-out (Standing in the corner, for me), reasoning, and being grounded didn't work.

AFTER the spankings, I NEVER did those things again. EVER.

Spanking should not be illegal. Good lord, the government isn't a NANNY, for crying out loud! They shouldn't tell us how to live EVERY aspect of our lives.

Frankly, if you want them to be THAT involved as to tell us how to discipline our kids, how far is it until the step of telling us who can HAVE kids at all?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hossbonnam

I living breathing proof that discipline works. Ive developed into a well behaved adult, a good father...

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How can you be a good father when you aren't around much?
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/family...ns-146671.html

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I do average 4.5 days per month with one child
And 7 days per month with the other two.

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That is not being the primary caregiver my friend.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

How can you be a good father when you aren't around much?
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/family...ns-146671.html
That is not being the primary caregiver my friend.

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That is kind of a low blow, NK. You do the best you can with what you have to work with.

Possibly. I assumed that when getting on the high horse about parenting one was actually the primary caregiver.