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Morganite,
I Don't Know Where You Draw The Line Between The Two. It Seeeems We're Using Two Words To Describe The Same Action. There Is A Town Near Where I Live Called Cassadaga, Fl.
The Entire Town Is Nothing But Mediums Ans So Called Spiritualists. The Heart Breaking Fact Is, This Town Will Not Allow A Christian Or Any Other Church To Be In Their City Limits. So, It It All Innocent Or Are Dark Forces At Work Here? Just An Observation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by STONY
Psychics and mediums. True, there might be an overlap and they are not mutually exclusive terms. The activity you mention seems to indicate that there is a sinister force behind this type of activity since it seems to be aimed at people who are pro Jesus. That's not to say that there might not be some type of convoluted reasoning in which the mediums claim to be pro Jesus. Simply that the official policy you mention appears to be anti Jesus and because of it one is forced to view it as sinister.
BTW
About mediums in the town, how are they legally getting away with this?
Of course I wouldn't want to live there even if the rent was free.
So what really separates one who does it in the Name of the Holy Spirit from one who does not? How are we to know?
We hear of psychics all the time... but when is the last time ANYONE has neard of a prophet? Could it be that we are so quick to call modern day prophets psychics, mediums, occultist, etc that we shun them before ever knowing if they are truly working for the Lord?
I know I'M not in danger of confusing a prophet of the Lord with a psychic.
My former pastor had the gift of prophecy. Here's a way you might tell:
1 JOHN 4:1-3:
Test the Spirits. Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God.
So when Sylvia Brown comes on, does she ever say Jesus' is speaking through her? No, because she can't. Her practices & predictions are contrary to the Bible. She could lie but God doesn't put up with that. There are examples of God's retribution on these folks who try to call on God with idols in their hearts, they don't last long. Who would go against God's word? No, they are prophesing out of their own spirit & not the Holy Spirit. They are false.
As Christians we are guided by the scriptures and they tell us that the gifts of the spirit as manifested during the infancy of the church during the first century would cease. In fact there is evidence that the gifts ceased during Paul's lifetime since he began leaving people unhealed.Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJizzle
The gifts were provided because the church was in its infancy was in its and needed spectacular displays of power in order to convince people that this was indeed God's new way or new covenant. Once that was firmly
Established, the gifts would cease.
So in view of this, and to answer your question, all a Christian really needs to know is that someone is claiming to have supernatural powers from God
In order to conclude that the person thgough well-meaning, perhaps, is being misled. Of course the scriptures tell us that even though the gifts would cease we could still request things of God in prayer. So in view of the dangers involved that is the safest route to take.
The Gifts of the Holy Spirit
BTW
The use of Jesus' name doesn't guarantee that those doing powerful works derive their powers from God. Jesus warned us of this not in some difficult to understand parable but in simple clear language.
As Christians we are guided by the scriptures and they tell us that the gifts of the spirit as manifested during the infancy of the church during the first century would cease. In fact there is evidence that the gifts ceased during Paul's lifetime since he began leaving people unhealed. The gifts were provided because the church was in its infancy and needed spectacular displays of power in order to convince people that this was indeed God's new way or new covenant. Once that was firmly established, the gifts would cease.Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJizzle
So in view of this, and to answer your question, all a Christian really needs to know is that someone is claiming to have supernatural powers from God in order to conclude that the person thgough well-meaning, perhaps, is being misled. Of course the scriptures tell us that even though the gifts would cease we could still request things of God in prayer. So in view of the dangers involved that is the safest route to take.
The Gifts of the Holy Spirit
BTW
Jesus told us that there would be those misusing his name and performing powerful works while doing so but who would not be his followers but his enemies. Also, not every Christian had the gifts. The gifts seem to have been limited to the Apostles and to those upon which they laid their hands upon to convey them.
Welcome To The Washington Street Church of Christ - Warrensburg, MO 64093 - (660)429-6608
Mr. Starman,
God Gave Jesus Believers A Power Of Discernment As To What Spirit Is The Holy Spirit And What Spirits Are Evil. In Your Heart You Will Know Who Is A B.s. Artist, And When The Holy Spirit Is Moving On Your Behalf. Hope This Helps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by STONY
Well, Stony, I guess we simply disagree in this area. There is nothing magical or mysterious about discernment. Discernment is a deep understanding based on knowledge of the scriptures attained with the aid of God's holy spirit. The reason why such discernment must be solidly based on knowledge garnered from study of the scriptures is to prevent us from letting our own ideas mislead us. If we do, then we might be victimized by anyone who chooses to utter Jesus' name for the sake of profit. Such men as: Jimmy Swaggart, Jim Bakker, Oral Roberts, Peter Popoff, Robert Tilton, Benny Hinn, Pat Robertson, and Jim Whittington, obviously took advantage of the scriptural misunderstanding of the flock they were supposed to guide but instead fleeced. Undoubtedly, the flock felt secure in its discernment until it was too late. Of course the magical type of discernment you speak of would have never allowed this. Yet, there it is.
Christian televangelist scandals - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Philippians 1:9
And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and all discernment;
bTW
Christians automatically discern those who dabble in the occult as sinning because the scriptures tell us to discern such activity that way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by STONY
Just for the record, Spiritualism is another religion with its orgins in Christianity.
Spiritualism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Cassadaga is a town that has attracted ones of the same faith, much like a "Christian" town might also do.
Cassadaga Spiritualist Camp'
I have visited it within the last three years and found it to be a mildly interesting place, with nothing dark about it, other than what might occur in any town. PS, I went with my Christian friend and he was fine too. ;)
Again, the problem comes from what you may believe is an occult and what you may not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Starman
I do not claim any Religion although, I associate more with Christianity. I am Saved... I believe that Jesus Christ is my Saviour. However, I believe that there is a lot more to this Life than the majority of Christians do. I believe Jesus portrays Himself in more ways than most Christians believe. I believe that Jesus is no different than we are, just as He said. I believe that there is much to learn in this world and there are many ways to learn it... the secret is learning it or practicing it with the right mind... for the right reasons.
Things that you may see as occult, I may see as opportunity. You may claim it to be evil, I may claim it to be Holy.
Valinors sorrow -
You are not talking about true Christianity. And it looks like it might have been something that evolved from the Quakers in the U.S.
Spiritualists "depend on the spirits" they come in communicado with! :p Here's your Spiritual Discernment for you... Spiritualists & Christian Scientists are straight from the pits of Hell. Yeah, evil spirit... eat my dust!
Exactly what part of that post do you consider Sin?Quote:
31pumpkin disagrees: No. I don't think that's a good excuse for sinning. Gotcha!
"Things you may say are occult. I may see as opportunity. you may claim it to be evil . I may claim it to be Holy."
Jesus said if you loved me you'd obey me. THAT PART. :(
Pumpkin: "You are not talking about true Christianity. And it looks like it might have been something that evolved from the Quakers in the U.S."
Val: I respectfully disagree with you Pumpkin. I have several friends who are Quaker and one who is Mennonite. Quakers are considered Christians - have a look for yourself... Religious Society of Friends - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Pumpkin: "Spiritualists & Christian Scientists are straight from the pits of Hell. Yeah, evil spirit....eat my dust! Sell your "religion" to the bats."
Val: It is definitely not my religion although my open mindedness and religious tolerance might be mistaken for that. Better to ask me directly than assume though - just a thought.
Pumpkin: "I need no losers here! Fool."
Val: While I may politely or even pointedly disagree with a member here, I have never considered a single one a "fool". I believe you owe an amends here. It might be wise to make it a public one since you stepped in the public diparaging pool yourself. That fits with Christianity, doesn't it?
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/faq.ph...aq_disparaging
I respectfully await your reply.
Although Quakers throughout most of their history, and in most parts of the world today, have considered Quakerism to be a Christian movement, there are some Friends today (principally in the unprogrammed Meetings of the United States and the United Kingdom) who consider themselves universalist,agnostic, atheist, or pagan, or who do not accept any religious label. This phenomenon has become increasingly evident during the latter half of the 20th century and the opening years of the 21st century, but it is still controversial and the subject of much discussion and debate among Friends.
Thus sprascht Wilkipedia following your link.
M:)RGANITE
Edit Curlyben: User has been warned about these and other comments in this thread.
Valinors sorrow:
Here is my answer for my disparaging comment -
Your whole post won't work because you are still promoting Spiritualism, regardless of it's roots. I don't care. Mediums are the work of hell. They worship all kinds of spirits. If they are not from the Holy Spirit of the living God, then they are evil. I don't care what kinds of healing they may offer. They are frauds & they prevent their members from finding the real Savior.
I'm not some kind of Christian Apologetic. All I can say is that I accept you. God gave freedom of choice to all & you have that right. I didn't say I was going to" kill" you for that!(that would be offensive) But I can't say "Peace Brother" either because you are not my Brother in Christ. Seems like you actually agree with mediums, etc.
I could never listen to it, but I accept the fact that people in this world may have different beliefs.
I just don't tie a lot of extra baggage unto mine.
We don't live by our feelings. The Holy Spirit controls our will.
They shall mount up with wings as eagles - Isaiah 40:31
Pumpkin... when at Church, have you ever called out "Amen" during a sermon? Have you evr been so moved that you raised your hands to God? Have you ever listened to music that is NOT Christian music? I can show you MANY Christians that believe that if you have done ANY of these things, then you need to repent and ask the Lords forgiveness, for it is blasphemy!Quote:
Originally Posted by 31pumpkin
What do you think? Things that many Christians deem to be evil, you may claim to be Holy! Is it evil to raise your hands to God or is it Holy? What makes you think that the exact version of Christianity that YOU believe in, is the one true way?
You also went on to say:
How do you know what is from the Holy Spirit and what is not? Many peoples beliefs are exactly that. Just because you feel it is not, because you were raised in such a way to believe that if someone is doing something in the name is the Holy Spirit that you don't know about, don't agree with, or don't do that they are "evil," "losers," and "fools?"Quote:
Originally Posted by 31pumpkin
Why do you think Chrisitianity has gotten such a bad name? So many people of my generation are completely closed off to Chrisitianity because of people like you. Peoiple who judge but preach that thou shalt not judge... people that shun others for their sins when they are sinners... people that believe there is a methodigy for being a Christian. Sure these types of people have been around for all of time... but with the day and age we live in now, you are likely to die being the last so-called "Christian" on this Earth.
I still believe that He sent his Son, Jesus Christ, to die for my Sins.
Are you trying to tell me that even though I believe that, that I am not a Christian?
Pumpkin: "Your whole post won't work b/c you are still promoting Spiritualism, regardless of it's roots."
Wow!
And here I thought all along I was promoting open mindedness, respect for other religions or lack thereof, solid intellectual development through the tools of good research and logical debate and general goodfellow forum camaraderie.
My mistake Pumpkin, lol, for being a "loser", a "fool" and now apparently an "agent from hell"! :eek:
Funny thing is I don't really agree with the mediums but sadly you never bothered to ask.
And I wonder how long this goes on before a forum administrator considers it to be the very stuff that is warned about in the written guidelines to this forum. Any admin out there care to comment?
DRJ -
First of all I am judging your words/actions. I'm not judging your heart. That's the bigger issue. God judging your heart.
Second You got it wrong anyway. Your not supposed to be in that kind of repentance where you are raising your hands up to" sinful" music in the present tense. One's sins were forgiven in the receiving of Jesus. If you are in conviction about it now, hey that's your business.
What? I don't even understand what you are trying to say here.Quote:
Originally Posted by 31pumpkin
I have no idea what you mean by that post but when I mentioned raising your hands, I said during a sermon... not "sinful" music. And when I spoke of music, I said "non-Christian" music... not necessarily "sinful."
As for my words and my actions, you don't know what I am saying or what I am doing. You are awful quick to pass judgment.
Do you really think I am Satan trying to persuade you? I believe in the same Jesus Christ that you do and I believe that He died for us. Again, despite this, you feel that I will burn for eternity?
I don't know if you are really upset when your in this thread, but you not reading things and taking them out of context. Just so you know, I am not trying to attack you at all and I hope that you understand that. We are only here for good, clean discussion, right? :o
Right on!
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