Quote:

---

Exactly! And much of that goes back to how they were parented and what they were taught, how they were made to feel.

---

That's the way to hold your moral ground, Miss Conservative WG!! Yes indeed. Life was not perfect, so women should go out immediately and get pregnant. That will solve the problem for sure.

You have to decide. Either women have a backbone and can make wise decisions, or you can regard them as merely weak little females and incapable of making good choices. I am choosing the former position.

And no one has made the ridiculous suggestion of passing a law. That's yet another fantasy world suggestion.

Quote:

---

And no one has made the ridiculous suggestion of passing a law. That's yet another fantasy world suggestion.

---

A number of states are making laws they hope will get to SCOTUS and overturn Roe. That's no fantasy. Numerous states have made laws to close PP. That's no fantasy. A woman or man for that matter doesn't set out to get pregnant. It happens, when sex happens, and not always a well planned thought out event. Oft times it's just a feel good grab like an addict trying to feel good. Sex like drugs makes you feel good and if you are feeling bad for whatever reason who doesn't go for the feel good, and maybe you don't realize the consequences, or don't care when you feel THAT bad. Getting hooked on a feel good is the easiest thing in the world for humans, though most can do this in healthy ways, some cannot. As I have been trying to explain, maybe not that well, I think the way to go is treatment for the underlying root cause of whatever pain, misery or condition that makes one fall into that cycle of wanting that feel good, quick fix that so dominants ones life. That may take years with plenty of good help and treatment.

The bottom line is women and men may have issues that renders them incapable of making good choices, and this cannot be discounted and punishments imposed without a very professional expert evaluation BEFORE punishment should even be considered. It is my position that those laws I cited above are punishments, however well intended, only serve to perpetrate the problem, delay whatever treatment may be needed, and only affects the most vulnerable in a very cruel discriminatory ineffective way.

They create more problems than they solve.

Quote:

---

A number of states are making laws they hope will get to SCOTUS and overturn Roe. That's no fantasy. Numerous states have made laws to close PP. That's no fantasy.

---

None of which has anything to do with what we were talking about which was responsible sexual behavior. We have discussed all this before. Killing an unborn baby is a pathetically barbaric solution for a pregnancy. I advocate we avoid "unwanted" pregnancies by employing some common sense, practical ideas. Don't have sex until marriage, for instance, which was pretty much the standard for many centuries until the advent, amazingly enough, of birth control methods. Out of wedlock births are now just accepted as normal. That was far from being the case prior to the last few decades.

Quote:

---

A woman or man for that matter doesn't set out to get pregnant. It happens, when sex happens, and not always a well planned thought out event

---

Which is exactly why we need to change our culture. The free sex, anything goes mentality we have now explains why we kill hundreds of thousands of unborn babies every year and hundreds of thousands of other children are born into fatherless households which we know for certain puts those children into an automatic disadvantage in life. It amazes me that you are so concerned about the children at the southern border but have no concern for children killed in abortion or put into the serious disadvantage of being raised without a father. Why can't we be concerned about both?

When it comes to sexual behavior, no one has suggested changing laws, but changing attitudes.

And you think the fed government, now already trillions and trillions in debt, is going to start giving psychiatric treatment to millions of women and men for years at a time? Wake up, Tal, Stop drinking the kool aid. It's time to change our culture.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

That's the way to hold your moral ground, Miss Conservative WG!! Yes indeed. Life was not perfect, so women should go out immediately and get pregnant. That will solve the problem for sure.

---

No, life is not perfect, so teen girls and adult women go out looking for the love that they're not getting at home from parents or spouses. Because the male realizes this, he offers his brand of "love" as he unzips his pants. Too often, a pregnancy results.

Obama care gives them the mental emotional and physical care they need and would change the culture and help people be responsible productive citizens, through health and education and continue to bring those abortion numbers down as they have been falling, especially teen pregnancy and abortions. I should have known you couldn't see the coorelation between what I presented and the discussion we are having, and can only suggest you try some of my Kool-Aid.

Changing the culture by force through stupid a$$ cruel laws never works bud! Makes more enemies than converts.

Quote:

---

No, life is not perfect, so teen girls and adult women go out looking for the love that they're not getting at home from parents or spouses. Because the male realizes this, he offers his brand of "love" as he unzips his pants. Too often, a pregnancy results.

---

It's interesting to me that you manage to frame this so that all of the blame falls on the man and none on the woman, but even at that, what is your solution?

Quote:

---

Obama care gives them the mental emotional and physical care they need

---

Yeah. Right. That is flatly untrue, but even if it was true, do you think that someone manages to plant money trees in the capital to pay for all of that?

Quote:

---

and would change the culture

---

Obamacare has been changing the culture??? Stop drinking that stuff!

Quote:

---

continue to bring those abortion numbers down as they have been falling, especially teen pregnancy and abortions.

---

OCare is responsible for none of that.

Quote:

---

I should have known you couldn't see the coorelation between what I presented and the discussion we are having

---

, There is no correlation.

What are you conservatives proposing to replace it with like you and the dufus promised after working so hard for almost a decade to repeal it, while the dufus isn't defending it at the SCOTUS level.

I would propose the government get out of the healthcare business. I would also propose we begin, as a nation, to look hard at why health care costs are skyrocketing which is the real problem we face.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

I would propose the government get out of the healthcare business. I would also propose we begin, as a nation, to look hard at why health care costs are skyrocketing which is the real problem we face.

---

Last year I survived severe anemia. Once a hematologist got it under control with several blood transfusions, I developed DVT resulting in several blood clots in my right calf. I was given a medication to take daily. The cost of the meds was over $1,500 a month. Big Pharma at its biggest. Am so glad I have good health insurance!

There aren't in the health care business. They do regulate it as they do any business, and make it affordable for the poor. You seem to want to do away with anything that benefits the poor. It save taxpayers money, so what's the problem? Everybody's health care and everything else has been increasing so why is that?

I take it you have no replacement ideas and no clues about what to do with the 20 million or so who depend on insurance for their health issues, like we all do. I hate to be a poor diabetic in your country. Or have cancer. So while you ponder why should people suffer as they did before Obama Care.? Kind of cruel of you.

Quote:

---

Last year I survived severe anemia. Once a hematologist got it under control with several blood transfusions, I developed DVT resulting in several blood clots in my right calf. I was given a medication to take daily. The cost of the meds was over $1,500 a month. Big Pharma at its biggest. Am so glad I have good health insurance!

---

We need to figure out why so many script drugs are so expensive.

That's easy, Big Pharma sets the prices and the goal is to make big bucks. The same goes for the insurance company hospitals and doctors. Mo;Money is the American way and you don't get rich without it.

Quote:

---

That's easy, Big Pharma sets the prices and the goal is to make big bucks. The same goes for the insurance company hospitals and doctors. Mo;Money is the American way and you don't get rich without it.

---

Competition in pricing is supposed to be the answer to that. How to get that to work in medicine is tough.

There is also another factor involved also, a common one. Companies collude with each other. Competing is expensive, and when two or more giants of equal strength want to avoid a costly fight, they cooperate. Pretty much like two countries with the ability to destroy one another, but have to destroy themselves in the process. Much more profitable to agree on boundaries and territories.

Gangs in big cities do it too.

Quote:

---

Companies collude with each other.

---

It might happen, but it's against the law so the answer to that would be to enforce the law.

I don't think that's as big a problem as you think. The big problem is that when a company develops a new drug, they get rights to that drug for a long time, many years. So there is no competition until that period of time runs out, and then the generics kick in and the price falls off a cliff. I don't know the answer to that. I do think we need to do something to reduce the development costs of drugs because it is a long, expensive process, but I don't know what that something would be.

It's a national conversation we need to have.

Big Biz has many resources to skirt laws and even write them in their favor, and as long as they have that kind of influence they will do whatever they have to do to keep the dough rolling in. Private planes and politicians ain't cheap. I think without a doubt THAT"S the biggest problem.

Quote:

---

Private planes and politicians ain't cheap. I think without a doubt THAT"S the biggest problem.

---

It's a contributing factor with both parties and always has been.

Absolutely and once that dynamic relationship changes we have a chance at bending the cost curb dow, or slowing the rate of growth. It's not going to happen if capatalists have all the good cards to play, because the will, and do.

Then how do you explain the incredible drops in prices (taking inflation into account) and astonishing increase in quality of things like calculators, computers, cars, motorcycles, and televisions, just to name a few? The gov had nothing to do it. It was the amazing competition produced by a free enterprise, capitalist system. That is what we lack in medical care.

I guess it's similar to a fast food environment in which only McDonald's sells hamburgers, only Wendy's sells milkshakes, only Burger King sells french fries, and only Taco Bell sells Tacos. You can be sure that all of those products would cost a great deal more than they do. Why? No competitive pricing.

Okay smart guy, you tell me why health care is so expensive and why the capitalist market hasn't solved that and why the price goes up and up and up where only the rich can afford it and the poor go without!

Quote:

---

Okay smart guy, you tell me why health care is so expensive and why the capitalist market hasn't solved that and why the price goes up and up and up where only the rich can afford it and the poor go without!

---

Again.

I guess it's similar to a fast food environment in which only McDonald's sells hamburgers, only Wendy's sells milkshakes, only Burger King sells french fries, and only Taco Bell sells Tacos. You can be sure that all of those products would cost a great deal more than they do. Why? No competitive pricing.

Think about it. When was the last time you walked into a med facility and prices were posted? Or you walked into a drug store and the prices of the most thirty commonly scripted drugs were posted? We don't pay any attention to price when we get med care. We don't call around to find out where we can get our surgery done at a reasonable price. We pay no attention to it.

Lets try this. What's the purpose of drug commercials? Why would they advertise new drugs to the public? Why are the insurance companies NOT in a competitive price war? I've been to walk in clinics that do post the price of their services.

The question was

why health care is so expensive and why the capitalist market hasn't solved that and why the price goes up and up and up where only the rich can afford it and the poor go without! Please answer that before you blast my theories and opinions.

No we ain't talking burgers here, because there is a very active burger war going on.

Quote:

---

No we ain't talking burgers here, because there is a very active burger war going on.

---

That's the whole point!!! Burgers are competitive. Med care is not. I've never in my life been in a med facility or drug store with prices posted. When was the last time you asked how much an X-ray or other med procedure cost?

Me and the wife have had many procedure, I know what they cost. You want to see my stack of bills? Co pays and deductibles are the killers as well as those monthly premiums, that rise every few years, and those damn out of pocket expenses. That's with GREAT insurance. I mean if you knew ahead of time what difference would that make since they bill the insurance company?

They all seem to be within a range though. That's why I asked what difference it would make. Group insurance runs cheaper. You do get billed though for the difference between what the insurance bills and what they charge on certain things because no insurance covers 100%. That's a huge and unfair problem we can discuss.

Quote:

---

. I mean if you knew ahead of time what difference would that make since they bill the insurance company?

---

That's another huge problem. We tend to care much less since the insurance is really the one on the hook for anything big.

Quote:

---

no insurance covers 100%. That's a huge and unfair problem we can discuss.

---

The insurance, in reality, does not cover anything. They take your money and everyone else's money, put it in a big pot, and pay the bills. if you want them to pay for all of it, then get ready for higher premiums.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

That's another huge problem. We tend to care much less since the insurance is really the one on the hook for anything big.

---

You pay them to care. They aren't on the hook, they offered you a service that you NEEDED. Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. Yeah you may have to be aware of costs, but trust me on this one, you can't affect that cost. No doctor will take you in Texas without signing a financial responsibility clause and they do have ways to collect if you don't cut a deal to pay the difference the insurance doesn't cover, and you have a 90 day window to make that deal.

Even if you like your doctor, he WILL get paid or you will be looking for another doctor. Yes sad to say they are part of the problem.

Quote:

---

The insurance, in reality, does not cover anything. They take your money and everyone else's money, put it in a big pot, and pay the bills. if you want them to pay for all of it, then get ready for higher premiums.

---

Premiums are already high enough and yes anything that raises those premiums they LOVE! Now some insurance is USELESS, be careful trying to save money, definitely read the fine print, but most are a good bet, though could be better. Like I said before group insurance is the best deal because individuals buying their own get down right raped. At least Obama Care helped poor people buy insurance and they NEED it just like anybody else and the repub repeal and don't replace is a disgusting display of pandering to the drug and medical lobby.

LOL, poor people love Obama Care especially when you call it something else. Take it away and what's left? You think it won't affect group insurance through your job? Guess again. You can read the full discourse in the ARCHIVES of this forum.

Quote:

---

but trust me on this one, you can't affect that cost.

---

That's an interesting thought. Let me give you an example of this whole "cost" issue.

I had to have a cyst removed from a knuckle on my finger. I figured it would be done in a doctor's office, but instead it was done in the guy's operating room. At least 3 people were involved including a nurse anesthetist who put me into la-la land. At any rate, when I got the bill, just the operating room was going to be 5 grand, but Blue Cross told them they could only collect 600, so they accepted that. It just strikes me that something is wrong when 5,000 becomes 600. It's like being told that a car is 25 thousand, but they will take 3 thousand for it. I don't get any of that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by talaniman

LOL, poor people love Obama Care especially when you call it something else.

---

So true!

Reminds me of the guy who complained about the government keeping their cotton-pickin' hands off his medicare.