Bella, I know it is a tough time for you. I really do get it but we need info from you to help out Lady. Please be as honest as you can. I have not worked first hand on campaigns but have been there to see what the experts said needs to be done. I find point forms easier for me so here goes.

1. We need a write up of the facts. Dates, times witnesses etc.

2. Also need copies of all documents related to this.

3. Do you have legal council?

4. Some people do chip ins to help with costs of legal council

5. Contact The Lexus Project. They have helped people get dogs off death row. They will only give you advice as they don't help in Canada but they have managed to save dogs. They are on Facebook

6. We need a Facebook page for Lady with people to contact to help. Email addresses phone numbers etc. PETITIONS DON'T WORK.

7. Do you have a behavior analysis of Lady?

8. We need to share this story on web pages against BSL I need your permission and to have the Facebook group up and running

9. Don't believe the lie about keeping it quiet that has hurt more dogs then helping.

10. Do not accept the dangerous dog level fight it. That causes so many problems.

I know I can't give you my email on here but Alty has it. Lets get this dog home to her family. Come on AMHD lets do it.

Any lawyers on here that can chime in please do lets do this now !

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cat1864

Bella, if this happened while you were at work, was Lady out of the fenced area when you got home? If she was in the fence, who put her back in or is this woman claiming that after attacking the cat Lady jumped back over the fence?

What proof does this woman have that Lady attacked her cat? Was there an eyewitness who is not a realtive or 'close' friend of the cat owner? Are there any bite marks on the cat?

This is starting to sound very fishy.

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Apparently the lady who was so terrified of my blood thirsty pit-bull came and put her back in the fence after it all happened. The cat owner rents an apartment in a house next to me, it was the land lords son who saw what happened. Confusing I know.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mogrann

Bella, I know it is a tough time for you. I really do get it but we need info from you to help out Lady. Please be as honest as you can. I have not worked first hand on campaigns but have been there to see what the experts said needs to be done. I find point forms easier for me so here goes.

1. We need a write up of the facts. Dates, times witnesses etc.

July 31st at approx 11:00 am. One witness, the nighbors landlords son, we can call him "D"./

2. Also need copies of all documents related to this.

So far nothing is in writing aside from the vet bill

3. Do you have legal council?

Spoke with legal aid briefly yesterday, said they would brush up on their animal by laws etc and get back to me today.

4. Some people do chip ins to help with costs of legal council

This has been mentioned (the part about getting assistance for costs, not sure about asking for money, but when the time comes....), as of now I qualify for legal aid, all though LA said this might be out of her hands, would get back to me today.

5. Contact The Lexus Project. They have helped people get dogs off of death row. They will only give you advice as they don't help in Canada but they have managed to save dogs. They are on facebook

I am familiar with Lexus, as of now Lady is a fugative and is in hiding. I don't care I will pay th fine as long as that means Lady stays safe. I have contacted the bully rescue, brought them up to date, things are still up in the air, and there are a lot of questins going unanswered.

6. We need a facebook page for Lady with people to contact to help. Email addresses phone numbers etc. PETITIONS DON'T WORK.

I agree.

7. Do you have a behavior analysis of Lady?

Lady has her level 3 obedience and her good neighbor certificate, in a sense, yes.

8. We need to share this story on web pages against BSL I need your permission and to have the facebook group up and running

I have started sharing with "The Truth About Pitbulls" I agree again, great idea.

9. Don't believe the lie about keeping it quiet that has hurt more dogs then helping.

No one could ever shut me up when it comes to my (or any) dog's life.

10. Do not accept the dangerous dog level fight it. That causes so many problems.

Here's the catch, Lady was aleady listed as a dangerous breed when she was slated to be euthanised in Ontario, I paid for her to come to NS, it doesn't matter if it was a squirrel she attacked, she is listed as a dangerous breed.

I know I can't give you my email on here but Alty has it. Lets get this dog home to her family. come on AMHD lets do it.

Any lawyers on here that can chime in please do lets do this now !

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Thank you Morgrann, the support I am receiving is unbelievable. I am overwhelmed, and can not thank you ladies enough.

If anyone would like to share this, please do.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aurora_Bell

If anyone would like to share this, please do.

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Bella, anything you need, anything I can do. In my area there is great difficulty obtaining homeowners insurance when there's a GSD, Rott (and I have one of each), "Pit" in the home. That's step #1 to banning a breed.

At any rate - it truly is a shame you're so far away. I'm a damn good investigator (if I can use the "d" word and praise myself) and I guarantee someone with expertise could turn this somewhat around. You have a single mother with a child whose best friend is a dog; you have a witness who probably has some loyalty (and not to you); you left and your dog was in your yard; you came home and your dog was in your yard. So the blood thirsty dog killed the cat - and then someone led the dog back into the dog's yard? Problematical at best.

All of the other suggestions are good ones, including Vet statements and the like.

If you read my blog about Andi (gone from me 4 months this week) you know how much money I spent keeping her confined - this could have been her. I don't think she ever saw a cat face to face, but she did hate squirrels. I fenced an acre and a half. Ching, ching, ching.

I know you have to re-home Lady for the short term, but I'm not terribly sure about the long term. Have you tried any of the animal rights associations?

Is she part "Pit" (and I know it's a "one size fits all" category) or not? Cats in my area are free roaming and nothing can be done about it - but if my dog puts a toe on someone else's property...

What is the cat owner's argument - that Lady is dangerous to everything and everybody, just cats, just her, something else. I hear the "Well, it COULD have been me; well, it COULD have been worse" arguments all the time. "Could" is meaningless. "Did" is not meaningless.

Hmm - you need somebody to gather info now, particularly before anything "legal" starts, when the cat owner will still talk.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JudyKayTee

Bella, anything you need, anything I can do.
Thank you, and you know I truly mean it from the bottom of my heart.

In my area there is great difficulty obtaining homeowners insurance when there's a GSD, Rott (and I have one of each), "Pit" in the home. That's step #1 to banning a breed.

I'm afraid to contact my home owners insurance....

At any rate - it truly is a shame you're so far away. I'm a damn good investigator (if I can use the "d" word and praise myself)

You can, because you are.

and I guarantee someone with expertise could turn this somewhat around. You have a single mother with a child whose best friend is a dog; you have a witness who probably has some loyalty (and not to you); you left and your dog was in your yard; you came home and your dog was in your yard.

Not to mention that my dad lives literally across the the street behind me, our yards are almost adjacent, he can see everything, and if he were to leave his house, he comes and puts Lady in my house.

So the blood thirsty dog killed the cat - and then someone led the dog back into the dog's yard? Problematical at best.

She was/is terrified of my dog, but admitted to my face she called my dog over, my dog came happily and friendly and she took her by the collar and put her in the fence.... Scared? Terrified? Where??

All of the other suggestions are good ones, including Vet statements and the like.

If you read my blog about Andi (gone from me 4 months this week) you know how much money I spent keeping her confined - this could have been her. I don't think she ever saw a cat face to face, but she did hate squirrels. I fenced an acre and a half. Ching, ching, ching.

Tell me about it, I paid heavily for the 1/4 acre fence....

I know you have to re-home Lady for the short term, but I'm not terribly sure about the long term. Have you tried any of the animal rights associations?

I am e-mailing several pit-bull organizations.

Is she part "Pit" (and I know it's a "one size fits all" category) or not? Cats in my area are free roaming and nothing can be done about it - but if my dog puts a toe on someone else's property ...

[B]A pit bull type dog is a combination of dog breeds that includes the American pit bull terrier, American Staffordshire terrier, Staffordshire bull terrier, American bulldog1 (1- 1.Progressive pit bull legislation includes the American bulldog in its definition of a pit bull.) Lady is a boxer Am Staff mix http://www.dogsbite.org/dangerous-do...ull-faq.php/B]

What is the cat owner's argument - that Lady is dangerous to everything and everybody, just cats, just her, something else. I hear the "Well, it COULD have been me; well, it COULD have been worse" arguments all the time. "Could" is meaningless. "Did" is not meaningless.

She fears for the safety of her kids, and I quote her "Once a dog gets the taste of blood, it won't stop at cats, I have two small kids, your dog COULD have attacked my kids and I fear she will now".

Hmm - you need somebody to gather info now, particularly before anything "legal" starts, when the cat owner will still talk.

How do I do this? Legally, and for it to stand up in court?

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I never thought it was going to be me. I knew BSL, breed escrimination and the sorts affected EVERYONE, but I thought I took all the proper steps to ensure something like this would never happen. I don't want to see the cat hurt, but I don't want to loose my dog over something most dogs would do as well.

Bella, how old is 'D'? How much do you know about him?

Something I think both you and the cat owner need to think about is how reliable 'D' is. Would he be the type to cover his own mistake by blaming someone/thing else? Are you both being played?

What is D's story? That Lady without warning jumped the fence and pounced on the cat? No barking? No working herself up? No behavior that would have had your father coming over to check on her?

How did the cat owner find out that her cat was injured?

Any investigator with experience in dog bites, particularly “dangerous breed” dog bites, can turn this around to some extent. I can only speak for the US, but it can't be very different. I get assigned a case, usually by an Attorney. I then talk to the people who are/might bring charges, make the complaint. They either talk or they don't. I photograph the property or properties. I talk to ALL of the neighbors. I talk to the Vet. I don't talk to you, obviously, because either your Attorney already knows what you know and what you're going to say.

My report - and any transcribed statements - are admissible in Court. I testify fairly often. I don't take a side. I find and report facts. Sounds like “Joe Friday,” but it's true. No Attorney wants to take a case, get to Court and find out the client isn't truthful or the investigator slanted things.

Someone who questions the cat's owner can discredit the “taste of blood” statement in a heartbeat. There is absolutely nothing written/printed ANYWHERE by a reputable source that states “once a dog tastes blood... it will attack kids.” Borderline hysteria like this is going to hurt her, hurt her credibility a LOT. I LIVE for people who make statements like this! She made the statement - based on.. It boils down to sheer emotion and makes her look like she's over reacting.

How I question, the direction I take, depends on her general attitude and demeanor - do I mention it's a child's dog, the child cries herself to sleep at night, the dog owner is more than sorry, the dog owner would feel the same way if it were her cat, the dog owner is not happy with the dog and will take steps to ensure that this will never happen again. Sometimes I just come on tough. Depends on the situation.

I don't mention that if the cat owner had, in fact, safeguarded her cat by keeping it inside this would not have happened. I leave out coyotes and other dangers. It is important that I be sympathetic to the plight of the cat owner who now owns a three-legged cat and thinks it's all your fault.

I might go in the direction of “How did it happen that the dog didn't kill the cat? Who interrupted the event? Did someone have to pull the dog off the cat? Did the dog jump on the cat and then back off? Gee, my dogs catch rabbits all the time and shake them to death. Sounds like the dog chased the cat and injured it and then backed off. The dog didn't pick up the cat and shake it or anything, right? Poor cat. It must have been frightened to death. I can't imagine what it's like to see your cat with a mangled leg.”

I carry “The Lost Dogs,” the book about Michael Vicks, in my briefcase. Sometimes I pull it out with my notebook. I've never had one person NOT ask what it is. Opens up a conversation about Vicks, his dogs, how he tortured them, how he personally killed at least one (by beating it against the ground - his cohort helped the Police locate its body, so it's true, not rumor). By the way, I don't recommend the book. It's actually sickening. I know the book backward and forward - want to talk about bully dogs? I know something about them, how they're rehabbed, all of that.

I go to where your dog is. I have some background, some experience in rescue, have taken in abused and abandoned dogs, I see what I think of the dog. I address whether the dog frightens me.

I look for whether the dog has escaped (for lack of a better word) in this manner before and whether the dog owner should have been more careful, taken more steps to ensure that the dog was secure. For example, my dogs have a doggie door and free access when I am home. When I am NOT home they are inside. I never have to wonder/worry what they're doing. I do it as much to keep them from being bothered (kids and dogs can be a bad mix) as I do to protect the public from them. Did you have any reason to believe the cat incident could happen? Did the dog have (and here's the key phrase) “vicious propensities”?

You need someone to ask the right questions on your behalf, someone who is not directly related to you, someone with experience in interviewing people.

Needless to say, I do a lot of dog bite cases. I don't go through all this prep for one case a year. In the long run it's beneficial to the Attorney to hire me.

Sorry if I rambled.

Thank you JKT, and this is very useful, even for myself when dealing with the woman. D is is 18, as far as I know he would have no reason to lie. But then again...

My biggest mistake was leaving her outside. I'll take pics tonight of what my yard looks like to give you an idea. My house is like 34c degrees, it's fuming hot in there, I thought it would be better for her to be outside, it's shaded, lots of water and a fan, yes I plugged in a fan outside pointing at the dog bed in the shade for cool off, not to mention E's pool which was filled at the time. When I read this I see how stupid I sound. Leave a dog outside? Unattended? What was I thinking? I would have torn a strip off someone else who posted that. The only thing is that my dad was there. As soon as he heard the commotion he was out there. Also, D said the cat was walking around minding it's own business and Lady from a standing point leaped over a 5ft fence. No growling, no barking, just leaped and pounced and mercifully let it go? I don't know. I have seen her catch squirrels, and like the rabbits she shakes them to death. She doesn't pounce on them and let them run away. Lady did have a scratch on her nose, and according to the vet bill it was only the leg that was broken, no puncture wounds etc...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aurora_Bell

. No growling, no barking, just leaped and pounced and mercifully let it go? I don't know. I have seen her catch squirrels, and like the rabbits she shakes them to death. She doesn't pounce on them and let them run away. Lady did have a scratch on her nose, and according to the vet bill it was only the leg that was broken, no puncture wounds etc...

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Does anyone know 100% that the cat was not injured before your dog went over the fence?

My first impression was that something chewed off the cat's leg or mangled it enough that it had to be amputated, but it was only BROKEN because the cat had been pounced on by a heavier animal? Why amputate a broken leg?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JudyKayTee

Does anyone know 100% that the cat was not injured before your dog went over the fence?

---

Excellent point! Like I said earlier, cats can easily outrun dogs, climb a tree. Certainly there are trees around? Why didn't this cat -- or couldn't it?

I want to drive to Judy's, pick her up, and go to Bella's to do some PI work!

Judy your input is what we need. You are experienced hands on at cases like this. I am sick of losing dogs based on a measuring tape or normal dog behaviour. We need to fix this so E and Bella can have their family member back home.

Apparently the bone was jutting out of the leg.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JudyKayTee

Does anyone know 100% that the cat was not injured before your dog went over the fence?

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Not to my knowledge.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aurora_Bell

Apparently the bone was jutting out of the leg.

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Doesn't mean your dog caused the injury. I'd be really curious about the Vet's opinion on how the injury happened. Bruises? Bites? I honestly think you've got a legal argument here.

I would tell you if I didn't think so.

PM me if you're more comfortable. Where exactly are you?

I'm mulling this over - it's summer. I could use a weekend trip. Just wondering how far, how much. I'd LOVE to put on my big white hat and spurs and dig into this. And, yes, I can work in Canada, particularly if I'm a friend and not taking a job away from a Canadian.

You and Lady MAY be getting railroaded. I'm not saying that closer examination of this won't be damning - but I'm not sure it will be damning.

I wonder if the witness "D" had something to do with the cat's injury and is blaming Lady. Dogs bite and chew, not squish and smoosh. I'd love to get him into an interview room.

What do you know about him, Bella?

Nothing, he seems like a good kid, he smashed up my car once by accident and his dad charged me to replace the rocker pannels... not sure how that worked, but it did. (I took the car to dad to fix rocker pannels, and D drove the car into the side of the garage, and I STILL had to pay $70!) I don't know what to think, I mean Lady did have a scratch on her nose, but what I don't get is it happened in MY yard, D said he was working on his 4 wheeler and he saw Lady jump over the fence, there is still another yard space between where my fence ends and my yard ends.

Hi Bella, sorry to hear your going through all this, you, E and Lady are in my thoughts.

I'm just spitballing here, sort of on the same angle (because a cat is hard to catch)
Are you familiar at all with this cat? Does it have any physical issues that would have made it difficult for him to get away from a dog, like being grossly obese or deaf perhaps?
I don't know that it would make an difference, just throwing it in.

I really don't think the cat has any issues, like I've seen it pooping in my plants, and he seems fine.

The more you tell us the more upset I get.

I know I didn't see what happened, but all the accounts from people that supposedly did, sound like a load of bull.

So Lady was in your yard when you left, and in your yard when you came home, and the only person that claims that Lady jumped the fence is some 18 year old that says Lady didn't give a warning, nothing, but just jumped the fence and attacked? Bull! It doesn't make sense. If it doesn't make sense, it's not true.

Fight this Bella. I'm not a legal expert, but I really believe you have a case. In fact, if you fight it, I'd sue this Lady for your lawyer bills, and the trouble she's caused.

I'd love to see her explain to a judge how she put Lady, a dog she's terrified of, back in your yard after she was done attacking her cat. Bull! I'd never approach an animal I'm terrified of. If an animal was attacking one of my animals, I'd be kicking, clawing, biting, punching, anything to get that animal off mine. I would not be approaching it, grabbing it by the collar and putting it back in it's yard. Hell no!

So mad about this. So very mad.

Judy, if you decide to take a trip, pick me up on the way. I want a piece of this too. :)

So good news, I have the woman I used for obedience classes on my side, she said she would write letters and if need be testify. Not only is she willing to testify on Lady's defense, she is willing to go on record as a behaviorist to talk about the natural instinct of terriers and all other dogs. One small step...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aurora_Bell

So good news, I have the woman I used for obedience classes on my side, she said she would write letters and if need be testify. Not only is she willing to testify on Lady's defense, she is willing to go on record as a behaviorist to talk about the natural instinct of terriers and all other dogs. One small step....

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Yay

Wow, I'm late to this thread. I'm aghast at this situation to say the least. No it doesn't add up at all.

I must have read that wrong, the owner of the cat cat put lady back in the fence?
Well that doesn't say much for her blood lust idea, now does it?
The story just doesn't add up. It makes no sense.
There is something being left out or something completely unknown.
Good, I'm glad you have the obedience trainer on your side.
Lady has a character witness.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LadySam

I must have read that wrong, the owner of the cat cat put lady back in the fence?
Well that doesn't say much for her blood lust idea, now does it?
The story just doesn't add up. It makes no sense.
There is something being left out or something completely unknown.
Good, I'm glad you have the obedience trainer on your side.
Lady has a character witness.

---

From the standpoint of an investigator it is, at best, a confusing explanation from the injury to the cat to Lady being returned to the yard.

I'm still pondering the options.

Judy, write up a list of questions that need answering and scenarios that need investigating and people who should be interviewed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Judy, write up a list of questions that need answering and scenarios that need investigating and people who should be interviewed.

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No problem - if ONLY Bella weren't so far away...

Believe me, I can hit the ground running with no prep and my instincts take over from there. I go where the witnesses lead me.

But, yes, I have a Doctor's appointment tomorrow so I'll sit there, skip the sports magazines and work on a list.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JudyKayTee

From the standpoint of an investigator it is, at best, a confusing explanation from the injury to the cat to Lady being returned to the yard.

I'm still pondering the options.

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Exactly, from the standpoint of someone who sees upwards of 15-20 dogs and cats per day (and that is just me and my Vet, not to say anything of the others) for over 12 years.
I can count on my fingers and toes the number of cats we've had in attacked by dogs.
They are few and far between.
I'm not saying it doesn't happen, I'm sure there are many we don't see.
But cats are pretty formidable opponents, and they are fast.
And the first thing my dogs do when they see another animal is bark.
But yet Lady said nothing?
It just seems that someone is being really dodgy.

Could you take a week's vacation and fly there?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Could you take a week's vacation and fly there?

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Honestly - I need two days. I already looked into air fare. It's too far to drive - 18 hours, give or take.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JudyKayTee

Honestly - I need two days. I already looked into air fare. It's too far to drive - 18 hours, give or take.

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Yeah, I checked that too. Could you fly (in a plane)?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Yeah, I checked that too. Could you fly (in a plane)?

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Sure, one connection if Bella is near where I think she is.

Or I could stand on my roof and flap my arms real fast -

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JudyKayTee

Or I could stand on my roof and flap my arms real fast -

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I was thinking you could dust off your broom and use that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

I was thinking you could dust off your broom and use that.

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No, I pretty much burned it out flying around here all day -

Oh, I thought my neighbor's barn was burning, but it was the straw on your broom

Does this Lady effort need donations?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Oh, I thought my neighbor's barn was burning, but it was the straw on your broom

Does this Lady effort need donations?

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Ummm! Judy, I just tried to send you a PM about this very thing, It wouldn't go because it's full.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LadySam

I must have read that wrong, the owner of the cat cat put lady back in the fence?
Well that doesn't say much for her blood lust idea, now does it?
The story just doesn't add up. It makes no sense.
There is something being left out or something completely unknown.
Good, I'm glad you have the obedience trainer on your side.
Lady has a character witness.

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Yes, the very same dog that she considered a blood thirsty baby killer, she called by NAME and took by the collar and led her back into the fenced yard.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JudyKayTee

From the standpoint of an investigator it is, at best, a confusing explanation from the injury to the cat to Lady being returned to the yard.

I'm still pondering the options.

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Right... She's terrified of my baby killer, but trusts this UNKNOWN dog enough to take by the collar and lead it into the yard?