"Truth does not depend for it's existence on anyone knowing what it is. What went up came down before Newton formulated the law of gravity. If he had not believed in it, then he would have been wrong, but the truth of the principle he defined remains true."

We have faith until we believe and we believe until we know - then the thing is created... It becomes a reality.

Newton had faith in his idea of there being something which he would call 'gravity' until he believed it and he believed it until he knew, then he shared that fact with the rest of us and we accepted it as fact. Not truth.

"There have to be absolute truths, for if there were not there would be nothing but chaos and flux."

Nothing is absolute. The world and everything in it is forever changing - even when we are unaware of it. Nothing stays the same.

A fact is something we are all agreed upon - like 2+2=4.

Truth is not fact. Truth is variable. Truth varies with each individual's perception of the world and everything in it.

And if you look around you... You will see that there is much chaos in this world of ours and men are dying for something that does not exist.

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Originally Posted by bluerose

Truth is not fact. Truth is variable. Truth varies with each individual's perception of the world and everything in it.

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I agree and facts can be "arranged" to make many different small-t truths. However that is why a big picture point of view is necessary to protect against such distortion. The one of which you speak is particularly terrible - "reasons" for war. Thanks to certain things beginning to happen now in the world, acquiring a really big point of view is becoming more and more possible, accessible. This is the dawn of the Age of Information (or misinformation if we aren't discerning enough LOL). Facts that tell big-t Truth are totally universal and timeless. It is our own prejudices (nationally, religiously, culturally, racially, from gender, etc etc) that get in the way of acknowledging and implementing them. Humans have a great deal of trouble giving up a small truth for a larger Turth. I believe we will learn or we will perish failing to -- that this (meaning all reality for all of us) is set up that way.

All things in the universe are on both continuums and cycles here -- change is not as random as we tend to think. When we began to see some of that by adding each of our points of view together to get a really really big one, it revealed that some of the chaos is not chaos at all. Its more like a piece of a fractal you didn't realise was connected to a much much much larger part. Viewed in only segments, fractals looks like chaos, viewed in its entirely is not possible since they are infinity, but a big point of view will certainly change what you see and what you would call it. This is why while it's a goal we can never attain (at least not in our present state of being or evolution unless you are a Buddhist of course LOL) attempting to adjust our small-t truth closer to Truth is a very very worthy goal.

And welcome back Rose!

"And welcome back Rose!"

Thanks - I found my lost password lol


I agree with the above. There is so much more to the bigger picture. We will never know what it is all about. We will never know the real story. We will never know the truth.

It is all speculation... My belief that we create our own reality from the thoughts we entertain, that the world we live in is but one world, we each live in a world of our own making... So on and so on.

And now…… I have a headache... lol lol lol

Who started this thread anyway? Lol

I still think that the truth is that Morganite is the alter id or ego of Starman! My request for the truth in this matter has been passed over to make it appear as a nontruth or non issue.
AND, who is that movie star pictured there. I can't remember his name.

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Originally Posted by magprob

I still think that the truth is that Morganite is the alter id or ego of Starman! My request for the truth in this matter has been passed over to make it appear as a nontruth or non issue.
AND, who is that movie star pictured there. I can't remember his name.

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I am sure that Starman will be flattered. A little research will show that Starman and I hold discrete opinions on a variety of subjects although we are both extremely well mannered.

What request for truth, and made to whom? Did you send a private message to me? If not, then you are at the mercy of the time I have available to scour through the many posts as I do not read everything that is posted. My life is much too interesting and sltimulating for that. I am also goping to be absent from the board for some little time, so if you have asked something of me that I have not seen, I might never see it unless it comes in a private message, even then it will be something over two weeks before aI can sit at my keyboard again.

But whatever the situation is - do you see that I am at a complete loss to know what it is? - then you really ought not to take it so personally. My neglect of you - if indeed I have neglected you - is a sin of omission rather than a deliberate act of ignoration.

Now, what is it you want of me?


M:)RGANITE who is NOT the stellar expert STARMAN

PS - It has been remarked that I look singularly like Jeffrey "Jeff" Chandler.

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Originally Posted by bluerose

"And welcome back Rose!"

Thanks - I found my lost password lol


I agree with the above. There is so much more to the bigger picture. We will never know what it is all about. We will never know the real story. We will never know the truth.

It is all speculation......... My belief that we create our own reality from the thoughts we entertain, that the world we live in is but one world, we each live in a world of our own making..... So on and so on.

And now…… I have a headache.......... lol lol lol

Who started this thread anyway? lol

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How depressing for you. Are you uncertain of everything? Can you, by creating your own reality, make it so that being hit in the head by a .45 magnum bullet does you no harm, or are you subject to the certain truth that it will hurt you whether you believe it will do so or not?

Now I have a headache! Stop it!

M:)RGANITE

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Originally Posted by bluerose

"Truth does not depend for it's existence on anyone knowing what it is. What went up came down before Newton formulated the law of gravity. If he had not believed in it, then he would have been wrong, but the truth of the principle he defined remains true."

We have faith until we believe and we believe until we know - then the thing is created... It becomes a reality.

Newton had faith in his idea of there being something which he would call 'gravity' until he believed it and he believed it until he knew, then he shared that fact with the rest of us and we accepted it as fact. Not truth.

"There have to be absolute truths, for if there were not there would be nothing but chaos and flux."

Nothing is absolute. The world and everything in it is forever changing - even when we are unaware of it. Nothing stays the same.

A fact is something we are all agreed upon - like 2+2=4.

Truth is not fact. Truth is variable. Truth varies with each individual's perception of the world and everything in it.

And if you look around you... You will see that there is much chaos in this world of ours and men are dying for something that does not exist.

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Truth is never variable. What a person believes to be truth may be variable, because they may waver and prevaricate, but what a person believes or does not believe does not affect truth, because truth is what is, whether it is believed to be so or not.

Remember the chant: "Red China does not exist!" That was the foreign policy attitude of the US during the fifties and sixties. Was it true? Was it true then? Is it true now?

BTW - these questions - like nmost of the questions here - are strictly rhetorical. I do not expect an answer. But if you do answer, I will not be disappointed.

M:) - who might or might not exist.

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Originally Posted by magprob

WOW! The thought just occured to me. You are really Starman, are you not. Starman never posts when you do and visa versa. I know you are in two different states but, could starman travel a lot? You sound just like starman. Tell me the truth. Are you Starmans Alter Ego or Alter ID or what ever? Tell the truth Morganite!

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You insist that I tell the truth. But you also hold that there is no truth!

I am not Starman. I have noticed that Rush Limbaugh never posts when you post. Are you...

You do not know what I sound like because this is a graphic not a sonic medium. However, I will tell you this. Were you to hear me speak, you would not know where I came from. Guaranteed. Wots ta thenk abooaht that, eh?

M:) of a different religious persuasion that SM. - Look for ideas, concepts, notions, rather than garmmatical constructions. Yours, Sherlock Holmes (Or am I?)

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Originally Posted by valinors_sorrow

I agree about ego, Maggie... but I don't think just because ego forever traps us in small truth doesn't mean that big Truth not worth acknowledging or pursuing. What Mulder said about it is true. The Truth is out there -- its just much much bigger than he ever imagined LOL. Discovering Truth has benefited many very well in terms of bringing success of all kinds and satisfaction on many levels.

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There is no Mulder. He is a fictional character!

Well thank you for clearing that up Starman... I mean Morganite. So, is that a picture of you or Jeff Chandler? By the way, I don't want anything, I'm just curious.

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Originally Posted by Morganite

There is no Mulder. He is a fictional character!

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Well even a fictional character can speak the Truth... that's how mavelously transcendent Truth is! LOL Besides a fictional character is really just an alias for who creates him. Shhh I won't tell, Puppetmasters, that there is a real person pulling the strings. :rolleyes:

Well, you see, it happened like this, the puppet came to life all on its own. It pulled out a machete and hacked loose from its strings then just went to hackin everyone in the place. Hack, hack, hack! Then, out the door it ran, hack, hack, hack.

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Originally Posted by magprob

Well thank you for clearing that up Starman...I mean Morganite. So, is that a picture of you or Jeff Chandler? By the way, I don't want anything, I'm just curious.

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I have been told that I bear a striking resemblance to Jeff. :)

I am still not the delightful Starman, and I never was. Ask Starman. We disagree on some points so we cannot be the same person.

Second after second the universal clock has been ticking since the beginning. There is only one way we got here one moment after another and that is truth.
You can have an opinion on many things but the truth is the way it happened.

Two people in a traffic accident have two different sides of truth, however it happened the way it happened.

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How depressing for you. Are you uncertain of everything? Can you, by creating your own reality, make it so that being hit in the head by a .45 magnum bullet does you no harm, or are you subject to the certain truth that it will hurt you whether you believe it will do so or not?

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Better late than never.

You misunderstand what is meant by creating our own reality. I don’t have a lot of time just now but it’s more to do with cause and effect. Action follows thought. We think about the things we want, the things we should be doing and then we take action…..

I'm sorry, if you say that truth is subjective, you are taking a relativist view... however, by saying that 'objective truth does not exist', you are being absolutist, and what you have just said is a truth because it is absolute and you have just said it. Thus, truth must exist because denying it forms a cyclical argument that only proves that it does indeed exist. An example of a truth that everyone will hold is that, 'all spinsters are female'. There is no way to possibly say that this statement is not true, and nobody holds a different perception on this truth... haha just read Kantian ethics, all is explained :)

The Truth exists... problem is some people so delude themselves with their own rejudices they refuse to accept it when its presented to them.