No, I don't agree at all. Most beliefs are not based on logical reasoning. That's why they are called "beliefs." A belief is the opposite of fact (logic).Quote:
Originally Posted by Hope12
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No, I don't agree at all. Most beliefs are not based on logical reasoning. That's why they are called "beliefs." A belief is the opposite of fact (logic).Quote:
Originally Posted by Hope12
Hello Hope:Quote:
Originally Posted by Hope12
I'm a man of science... There simply is NOTHING on the horizon to indicate the end of the world...
Frankly, I'm sooooo glad I don't believe the religion BULLSH*T. That way, I can wake up every day KNOWING that it's going to end with a nice sunset... Plus, I don't have to run around being scared...
Look. If religion gives you comfort, then I can understand it... But, when it makes you fearful, it SUCKS bigtime..
excon
I like this quote - well said.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Another quotable quote.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
Hope,
Feel free to pipe in on your thread.
Hello Wondergirl,Quote:
No, I don't agree at all. Most beliefs are not based on logical reasoning. That's why they are called "beliefs." A belief is the opposite of fact (logic).
It is a fact one has faith in their beliefs and therefore must havein their mind and heart, why, what informatin or facts have they based their belief on? Otherwise they are puttuing their faith and trust in something they do not understand. The bible refers to Hebrews 11:1 Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities though not beheld."
Faith is, therefore, the basis for hope and the evidence for conviction concerning unseen realities.
Faith is based on concrete evidence. The visible creative works testify to the existence of an invisible Creator. So the fact that our faith is based on evidence such as the creative works, in our mind and heart we believe God exists. Some people who profess religious faith give little thought to why they believe what they do or to whether there is a reasonable basis for their faith. No one can have faith without a reason for why they believe the way they do.
Quote:
World English Dictionary
Belief (bɪˈliːf)
1.a principle, proposition, idea, etc, accepted as true
2.opinion; conviction
3.religious faith
4. trust or confidence, as in a person or a person's abilities, probity, etc
So in a persons mind their belief becomes a fact which gives them basis for faith because what they believe has now become s fact in their mind.
My question again is why or what basis do you have to believe or not believe in the end of the world?
Peace,
Hope12
What is/are "creative works"? I have never heard that expression before.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hope12
Hello again, Hope:Quote:
Originally Posted by Hope12
CHOOSING to believe the world is ending has NOTHING to do with your religion...
I've not read much of your good book, but I remember parts of it saying that NOBODY knows when the end is going to happen, and those that SAY they DO, are FALSE prophets...
Why don't you CHOOSE to believe THAT part? Why doesn't THAT belief become fact in your mind?
excon
In the book of revelations it says NO MAN will know the day or even the hour it will happen. (don't ask me where it is, I can't tell you) but religious scholars are unanimous on that point.
Hello Excon,
Nice to hear from you. Could the world the Bible speaks about be different from the literal earth? If so, then maybe the reason why so many are in fear of the end of the world. The word the bible speaks of is not the literal earth!
Definition: When translated from the Greek word ko′smos, “world” can mean:
(1) humankind as a whole, apart from their moral condition or course of life,
(2) the framework of human circumstances into which a person is born and in which he lives, or
(3) the mass of mankind apart from God's approved servants.
The bible speaks in literal tense about things as well as symbolic.
2 Peter there is speaking of te flood of Noah's time, and yet if "the world"spoken of there was literal, we would not be here today. Some to not compreend the bible and therefore draw the wrong ideas.Quote:
(2 Peter 3:6) and by those [means] the world of that time suffered destruction when it was deluged with water.
I too can wake up every day knowing there will Always be a sunrise and a sunset!
Peace,
Hope12
Well 30 posts in and we get to what you really wanted to say. :)
Hello again, Hope:
Well, then if it's a metaphorical end of the world, I'm cool with it. In fact, I'm waiting for the next enlightenment. That's where the chains of religion are thrown off..
THAT may be what's coming.. Okee doakee.
excon
Huh? That makes no sense. "Faith" and "belief" are the same animal. One believes; one has faith, but one does not have "faith in their beliefs."Quote:
Originally Posted by Hope12
None, What they base their faith on are not facts as we think of facts. Faith cannot be proved by facts.Quote:
what facts have they based their belief on?
Faith comes about from non-fact situations -- believing what your parents believe, believing in spiritual occurrences that cannot be proved, believing what an authority says.
Yes, that's what faith is, believing the unbelievable or unproven or the unknown or the unsure.Quote:
Otherwise they are puttuing their faith and trust in something they do not understand.
Exactly! -- "expectation" (not a surety that has been delivered) and "hoped for" (again, not a sure thing, not set in stone) and "evident" (but not sure, just "seems to be") and "realities not beheld" (no surety for them through actual observation and from the evidence of the senses) -- in other words, faith in what is not reality, not a sure thing.Quote:
The bible refers to Hebrews 11:1€‚Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities though not beheld."
You just disproved that by saying, "Faith is, therefore, the basis for hope and the evidence for conviction concerning unseen realities."Quote:
Faith is based on concrete evidence.
Do you mean we observe Nature and believe in God's existence? That's not why I believe, have faith.Quote:
So the fact that our faith is based on evidence such as the creative works, in our mind and heart we believe God exists.
There is NO reasonable basis for faith.Quote:
Some people who profess religious faith give little thought to why they believe what they do or to whether there is a reasonable basis for their faith.
True, we all have a "reason" for something we believe. I believe my doctor will spend quality time with me at my next appointment. I believe that only because that is his way of interacting with his patients, with me. But maybe he will be having a bad day or be feeling ill the next time I see him, and will be brusque with me -- and I won't know or understand why. Then what happens to my faith in him? The "concrete evidence" is not so concrete; the reason for my faith in my doctor has been shaken. Faith is not a concrete thing, but waxes and wanes.Quote:
No one can have faith without a reason for why they believe the way they do.
To sum this up -- I will be long dead when and if the world ends, so it does not concern me at all.
Qouted from Excon:
]Look. If religion gives you comfort, then I can understand it... But, when it makes you fearful, it SUCKS bigtime.. [/QUOTE]
Hello Needkarma,
I quoyerd excon, because you seemed to agree with him. Please take comfort knowing I do not fear the end of the world, for I welcome it. The world the Bible speaks about is hateful, wicked persons no longer existing. That is nothing to fear, but to take comfort knowing =that God will do away or bring to non existence all wickedneess and the one that causes it Satan the devil. That is 'the end of the world' the Biible speaks about. In faact the literal earth will remain forever.
The Bible says:
Quote:
Psalm 104:5 He has founded the earth upon its established places; It will not be made to totter to time indefinite, or forever.
Quote:
Ecclesiastes 1:4 A generation is going, and a generation is coming; but the earth is standing even to time indefinite.
Quote:
Proverbs 2:21-22 For the upright are the ones that will reside in the earth, and the blameless are the ones that will be left over in it. 22 As regards the wicked, they will be cut off from the very earth; and as for the treacherous, they will be torn away from it.
(Any righteous persobn can not possess the literal earth if it is burned up with fire.)Quote:
Psalm 37:29 The righteous themselves will possess the earth, And they will reside forever upon it.
Jesus prayed:
( can God's will take place on earth if the world the ible speaks of be the literal earth?)Quote:
Matthew 6:10 Let your kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also upon earth.
So you see, I do not live in fear, the literal is not going to end, but wicked people will end. The end of the world means the end of wicked society.
Peace,
Hpe12
So you'll be surrounded only by good happy people? Sounds like a nice story. I'm glad it brings you comfort.
Where do you see this wicked society and all these wicked people? (Most people I deal with all day are pretty nice.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Hope12
Do you mean those who don't agree with your beliefs?
Hello exconQuote:
CHOOSING to believe the world is ending has NOTHING to do with your religion...
I've not read much of your good book, but I remember parts of it saying that NOBODY knows when the end is going to happen, and those that SAY they DO, are FALSE prophets...
Why don't you CHOOSE to believe THAT part? Why doesn't THAT belief become fact in your mind?
,
The world of the Bible excon is not the literal earth. The end of the world the bible speaks about has erverything to do with religion. As to when the een of the world (the end of wicked mankind) is going to be,
The bible states nobody knows, the day or the hour. As to this I firmly believe. As to the world of wickedness and any who practice wickedness willingly, the bible over and over says the end will come for them.
Failing human governments will end.“The God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite.”—Daniel 2:44.
War and pollution will end.
Quote:
Psalm 46:9 states: “He is making wars to cease to the extremity of the earth. The bow he breaks apart and does cut the spear in pieces; the wagons he burns in the fire.” The Bible also teaches that God will “bring to ruin those ruining the earth.”—Revelation 11:18.
Crime and injustice will end. God's Word promises:Quote:
“The upright are the ones that will reside in the earth, and the blameless are the ones that will be left over in it. As regards the wicked, they will be cut off from the very earth; and as for the treacherous, they will be torn away from it.”—Proverbs 2:21, 22.
Jesus said:Jesus and his disciples did, however, foretell what conditions on earth would be like just before God brings the end. The end is imminent when all the following events are happening at the same time and on a global scale.Quote:
“Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.” (Matthew 24:36)
“Nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom” (Matt. 24:7)
“The“There will be great earthquakes” (Luke 21:11)
"There will be food shortages . . . in one place after another” (Matt. 24:7)
“In one place after another pestilences” (Luke 21:11)
'Increased lawlessness accompanied by a cooling off of love on the part of the greater number' (Matt. 24:11, 12)
Men become faint out of fear and expectation of the things coming upon the inhabited earth” (Luke 21:25, 26)
'Christ's true followers to be objects of hatred by all nations on account of his name' (Matt. 24:9)
'This good news of the kingdom preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness, and then the end will come"(Matt. 24:14)
Luke 21:31, 32: “When you see these things occurring, know that the kingdom of God is near [that is, the time when it will destroy the present wicked world and itself take full charge of earth's affairs].
Peace.
Hope12
Hello wondergirl,Quote:
Faith comes about from non-fact situations -- believing what your parents believe, believing in spiritual occurrences that cannot be proved, believing what an authority says.
If faith come from non-fact situation like believing in something because your parents believed in it, then won't that be like becoming a robot or a puppet. I believe we all have the God given gift to be abe to think fort ourselves. If a parent believes in curising or steeling does that mean theirt child should beieve in cursing and steeling. Would it not make sense to search your on heart felt feelingws and ask yourself "what do I believe?" Otherwise or faith is blind because we would not be able to erxplain why we have faith in God, Jesus or anything else. This kind of faith has no backing. We need to gain knowledge of why we believe in something. What makes you or motivates you to ghave faith in God. Don't you have to bwelieve in God in order to put faith in him?
Again my question what motivates a person to believe the end of the world will come, even though we don't know when?
Peace,
Hope12
Are you sure? This is your translation of the bible. There are many different translations. Funny how the book that's supposed to be inspired by God leads to millions of different translations. I'm betting that you're all wrong. It's just a book, and nowhere in that book does it give an exact date for the end of the world. That's human deduction. Humans have been known to be wrong.Quote:
The world of the Bible excon is not the literal earth. The end of the world the bible speaks about has erverything to do with religion.
Well we are having our end of the World party at work tomorrow, the entire office and field people are all going to lunch together. That has never happened before, so it may be the end of the world the way we know it.
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