Ask Me Help Desk - Child support and an open debate.

Out of greenies I cannot agree more witth Sinnen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Synnen

EXACTLY!!

But it's not that simple, either. My husband and I together make a very decent salary. It's not six digits, but it's far above the poverty line. We're FINALLY pregnant after 10 years of trying---and we're trying to figure out how we'll afford day care. For an infant, it is nearly my entire take-home salary every month for day care. How can ANYONE who makes less than we do afford it? We're talking about $300 a week, and that's for 40 hours. Any more than that (and since most people WORK 40 hours, they need that extra time to get to work or get to daycare on either side of their work day) is extra---and when you go over your time, they LOVE to charge you more in fees. It's absolutely insane. And we're MARRIED and living together! How can a single parent possibly do it?

And yet we see questions all the time about people not being married but having 3 kids together---what the hell is wrong with people that they don't make that committment to each other when they've already got the committment to the kids?

And the people getting pregnant on purpose when they KNOW they can't afford it just makes me sick.

That's why I want to see welfare disappear, honestly---people would be a LOT more careful if they didn't have government money to fall back on, and they'd be more likely to NOT have kids without a committment to each other. Which all things considered would be better for the kids in the long run.

This is all true.

The problem is that when these cuts are made, it is the children who suffer most.

Can't afford daycare?
The kids stay home alone and do what they will, and learn from the kids on the street how to survive.

Government money or not , "those" people will have sex and never once think about the possibility of children , but if it happens...
And if there is no government money to help you get enough education to get a job.. you sell dope or steal or become a prostitute because those are the choices with no education which most of theses people lack.

How many pregnant women will tell you they thought they were in a committed relationship until they got pregnant?

How does a single parent do it?
For the most part they don't. They and their children go without.

This is not going to be stopped by throwing money into the problem or taking it away.
But when we are throwing it in at least the kids have a better chance.

Take it away and the "parent" faces the choice of feeding the kids or buying alcohol , crack, or getting their meds,. the kids are going hungry.

The major problem with kids today is that they were raised in the street while the parents or parent try to feed them.
They embraced the gangs and the gang attitude for the security that families used to give.

And I will throw in another scenario - Grandparents raising grandchildren because parents either can't or won't.

And I'll throw in ANOTHER option:

THOUSANDS of parents waiting to adopt.

There's no excuse for hungry children, and there's no reason to throw good money after bad in trying to maintain the Welfare system.

All this and no welfare.

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/family...ds-570346.html

Im floored they are even asking about this.

/shrug... I'm surprised her rights were NOT terminated, honestly.

Kids that young taken by the state are almost never recoverable, because they ARE so adoptable---and the bonuses are determined by number of kids adopted out of the system.

I'm all for forced sterilization for anyone that is incapable of permanently leaving the welfare rosters after a predetermined period (I'm not setting that time but it should be fairly short).

That way... while you may be supporting ONE deadbeat... they aren't breading other deadbeats.

Now I am saying that with a tiny dose of sarcasm... but firmly believe new children should NOT be paid for under welfare while their parent are on welfare. If they put the effort into finding a job they put into procreation... they would have three jobs.

It should be a temporary aid... not a permanent lifestyle.

Oh, but the bleeding hearts out there swear that the welfare program is ALL about helping the CHILDREN! You can't PUNISH the CHILDREN for the sins of the parents!

At what point do we draw the line? Maybe it IS heartless, but sometimes you have to do the hard, bad, mean thing to make the long term effects better.

You know... like not punishing children for doing something bad when they're five, then wondering why they're a gang banger doing drugs with two kids of their own at 15.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Synnen

Oh, but the bleeding hearts out there swear that the welfare program is ALL about helping the CHILDREN! You can't PUNISH the CHILDREN for the sins of the parents!!

At what point do we draw the line? Maybe it IS heartless, but sometimes you have to do the hard, bad, mean thing to make the long term effects better.

You know...like not punishing children for doing something bad when they're five, then wondering why they're a gang banger doing drugs with two kids of their own at 15.

Its no more heartless than telling everyone go out and work... or go hungry. Which is life for everyone else on the planet that's not mooching off mom and dad.

I just don't see it as punishing the kids. If the parents can't provide for the kids, there are PLENTY of people out there willing to take those kids away from the parents and raise them as their own.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Synnen

I just don't see it as punishing the kids. If the parents can't provide for the kids, there are PLENTY of people out there willing to take those kids away from the parents and raise them as their own.

Me either... if you can't afford them... then don't have them... if you have them... then support them. Even if that takes 2 or 3 jobs. Work 3 jobs to pay for your demon spawn... and you won't be as eager to have more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by smoothy

Me either.....if you can't afford them...then don't have them...if you have them...then support them. even if that takes 2 or 3 jobs. Work 3 jobs to pay for your demon spawn...and you won't be as eager to have more.

So it seems your idea is to have no visitation for the NCP because they should be busy working to pay the custodial parent ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by califdadof3

So it seems your idea is to have no visitation for the NCP because they should be busy working to pay the custodial parent ?

How much visitation would you be talking about? That's an important distinction. And of course both parents should be off their butts earning an income to pay. Not just one parent.

With IUD's, the Pill, Condoms... injections, subdural implants... not to mention tubal ligation and vasectomies excuses for having kids one can't pay for are few.

Incidentally... MEN should have an equal chance at gaining legal custody... IMHO. Not the system that's stacked against them as it is now.

Here's the thing: I'm ALL for nearly all couples to have JOINT physical custody, and child support going out the window.

I also think that those paying child support shouldn't have MORE kids if they can't pay their child support, though. Having a family and three other kids isn't an excuse for not paying for the kids you don't live with.

/sigh... just sterilize everyone, and make people appeal to be able to have children so that there are NO accidents.

Quote:

Originally Posted by smoothy

How much visitation would you be talking about? That's an important distinction. And of course both parents should be off their butts earning an income to pay. Not just one parent.

Idealy, it would be best for both parents to raise the child. There are ways to create a 50/50 split in timeshare and still have consistency in the child's life. It doesn't have to be as most think it as day on day off type of thing. The courts "Standard" is only every other weekend and a few other days with visitation one or more times a week.

In California for example. If a parent works nights and takes care of the child during th day. Then turns the child over for bedtime at the ex's house. The courts figure that at 100% to the ex and 0% to the one raising the child during waking hours. The system is broken.

Also if a parent is paying current and doing what they can on arrears then penalties should end rather then continue punishment for good behavior.

I rather like the idea that child support isn't money.

The NCP pays in---and the CP gets coupons for specific items. For instance, a coupon to put into the electric bill, one for clothing at WalMart, specific grocery items, etc.

The CP can't abuse it as easily, and the NCP knows exactly what they're paying for.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Synnen

I rather like the idea that child support isn't money.

The NCP pays in---and the CP gets coupons for specific items. for instance, a coupon to put into the electric bill, one for clothing at WalMart, specific grocery items, etc.

The CP can't abuse it as easily, and the NCP knows exactly what they're paying for.

They could do the same with a debit card and a stipend for rent. That way there is a receipt for every purchase. But it will never happen. Its already passed through the courts that mommy can use it to buy a new car and daddy has nothing to say about it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by califdadof3

They could do the same with a debit card and a stipend for rent. That way there is a reciept for every purchase. But it will never happen. Its already passed through the courts that mommy can use it to buy a new car and daddy has nothing to say about it.

And if they allow that... then exactly what is Alimony for?

Screwing over the person who makes more money at the time of a divorce.

Duh.

So is child support in a lot of cases.

Its usually far in excess of what they ever spent on the child BEFORE the divorce.