Like you say there is only a picture to go on, not knowing his back ground or home life, apart from the fact that his Dad's in jail and his Mum's sat beside him in the street it's a bit difficult to comment on the whole situation.

He doesn't look dirty or undernourished and his clothes- as does his Mum's- look perfectly acceptable, maybe it's a status thing like street cred' if he goes into jail it perhaps makes him appear hard, a man to his mates, respect from the street kids or something similar.
It could be in his eyes that his Dad commands respect for doing time when he comes out he takes no s... from anyone so he's looked up to.
Maybe the lads being bullied and feels this is what he has to do to gain that same status.

I think it's a phycological thing which you would need to be on his wave length before he opened up to you.

Prison is not the answer for this lad for I am sure that he would learn further crime ten fold, maybe patience and understanding or time out with someone other than his Mother ( no disrespect intended)

I'm on the fence.

Personally I think he's lucky that he's standing on the street with a sign and not in a jail cell. Mom could have gone about this differently, but how are we to know she didn't already try other avenues?

A picture says a thousand words, but it doesn't tell the entire tale. All we see is a 13 year old with a sign and a women in a chair having a drink. We don't know the details that led up to this action, we don't know if this was a last resort or if this was the first attempt at discipline.

Personally I would rather embarrass my kids then see them go to jail or juvy, that would be more damaging than what this mom did.

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Originally Posted by Altenweg

I'm on the fence.

Personally I think he's lucky that he's standing on the street with a sign and not in a jail cell. Mom could have gone about this differently, but how are we to know she didn't already try other avenues?

A picture says a thousand words, but it doesn't tell the entire tale. We don't know the details that led up to this action, we don't know if this was a last resort
or if this was the first attempt at discipline.

Personally I would rather embarrass my kids then see them go to jail or juvy, that would be more damaging than what this mom did.

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:D greenie: Exactly why I say it depends on the circumstances!

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Originally Posted by bushg

I hope that I never make my children be ashamed of who they are. I hope I never say or do anything that makes the world view them with disdain, disgust or fear.

I know what it is to grow up having your fathers / his families failures thrown up in your face. Everytime you do something that is negative, "your just like that bunch".

Look at this young boys face, eyes downcast, wonder how many times the fathers failures have been thrown into this childs face.

Yes, he should be punished for stealing, but I think it could have been done in a more loving way. He needs somebody to wrap their arms around him and show him that even though he did something wrong he is worth loving.

To me this picture does not show love.
I have 3 children and I would never dream of doing something like this to them, and yes we have a few skeletons in our families closet but that is for our families to know, not for the world to judge my children by.

I bet if he stole something in school and the teachers/principal made him stand with this sign (inside school or outside of school) There would be a lawsuit filed lickety split.

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The theme running through this thread is that, we don't know what led up to this picture, that's all we do know. Each of us is making assumptions, possibly based upon our own experiences.

So here are mine;

To take such a dramatic stand of symbolism had to hurt her also.

Maybe this is a final effort of "tough Love" on the mom's part to save her son and possibly the mom's last hope for him. I can also see this type of parent giving her son credit for the good things he accomplished and hugs and much love also. OR, he would have rebelled in a strong way against doing this. She had some control over this child and that means she started teaching him a long time ago.

I feel she wants much better for her child and she probably has a big battle on her hands against peer pressures that she can only imagine.

I say terrific, God bless her. If my scenario is half true I would be proud to call her my friend.

Stringer

His Mom is trying to save him. I respect the lady for that. So what if he is taunted and teased. Maybe that will make him stay home and do his homework instead of roaming the streets and stealing.

I think good. His mother wants to teach him a lesson. I'd my punishment for doing something was humiliation, I wouldn't make the same mistake again. And I'd much rather see parents humiliate their kids for a day to teach a lesson than to hear about how another kid was beat to death or starved for a week or something awful like that.

Interesting enough, I fell upon a show last night, " Lock down behind juvenille jail" I think it was . And I have to say, Mom doing this is far better then what goes on in those jails. The kids were babies, in my mind, but their actions, in jail, are far worse, then some of the adult prisons.

Mom, bless you for loving your son so much, to not want this for your child.

I think it is kind of good. Putting the, 'be with daddy' part could be a little emotional if he misses his father and is a little cruel. I wonder what he thought when someone came by and took a picture of him.

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Originally Posted by Izannah

Not to jump on your case or anything but... How easy would it be for YOU right now to just go out and get "some more income," a "better environment," and date a "better" man/woman? (Even if you don't "want" to, but "had" to...how would it be? Someone out there just waiting to hand you a few million, a palatial estate and whatever your equivalent of Brad Pitt would be?)

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I definitely don't rely on anyone to "hand me" anything good in life, I would suspect I would have to work for it. Regardless of your background, location, government, setbacks in life, etc... people have choices. People can make their lives better. You just have to want it. You don't have to be rich, have a mansion, and Brad Pitt to have a good life. Brad Pitt and a jailed father are two extremes by the way.

And if you've worked in the juvenile justice system, I would like to see the stats on the effectiveness of shame as a means of punishment. In many cases, even when corporal punishment is concerned, kids tend to be a bit more bitter, have lower self esteem, and act out more.

Say for example, that kid is standing there holding that sign... he goes to school the next day and kids start making fun of him for stealing, his jailed father, whatever... chances are the kid's going to get defensive, act out. It will no doubt hurt him mentally, his school work might take a turn for the worse, etc. It's a domino effect. There are better ways of handling it.





"Do not let the hero in your soul perish, in lonely frustration for the life you deserved, but have never been able to reach. Check your road and the nature of your battle. The world you desired can be won, it exists, it is real, it is possible, it's yours.” ~Ayn Rand

I love it! Looks like she took a tough stance, as he is in a tough place.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

I love it! Looks like she took a tough stance, as he is in a tough place.

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Agreed Tal, she took a stand, good for her. So what if the kid gets embarrassed, the point is she probably did what she thought was right. AT LEAST she is doing something, unlike so many other parents.

AWESOME!! If he doesn't like being ridiculed he better not break the law again. WAY TO GO MOM!!

This kid doesn't need his mom to only be his friend, he needs her to be a parent. And that is what she is doing, again bless her. She is not physically or mentally abusing him, at 13 he wants to act like a "man", then take it like one.

Stringer

I LOVE IT!! You put a kid in Juvi and he is going to come out worst. This is great he gets to be embarrassed maybe more people should do this. I was Extremely poor growing up and I never stole a Damn thing. I got my @$$ a job when I was 12 and I have been working ever since.

Hey Rick, have you formed an opinion one way or the other as yet?

Stringer

A little embarrassment might just make him a productive citizen yet. Stealing, drug abuse, and gang-banging is just around the corner for many youths unless the parents care enough. She's a good mother for caring. Good for her!

Hi everyone
I know we're all saying best thing for him etc. etc. but there's something not quite right about this picture, I 'm not sure what it is though, it just seems a bit odd that this lad is standing in the gutter making no attempt to run for it, which lets face it most lads would have said in no uncertain terms up yours I'm off.
Mum is not exactly holding him down- now is she- in which case it's something he's decided to do on his own and she's just there for the observation of it, probably saying, "i've got to see this", or such like.

If you look at it from another angle- his Mum has forced him to do this- then lets face it he's not exactly a small lad, what could have been said to him to make him remain stood in the gutter against his will!!

Something just doesn't sit right all the lads I know around that age who I deal with daily, would have given probably a bit of sign lauguage and would not have been seen for dust...
Perhaps I'm just being to analytical

What could have been said? How about "You stand there with that sign or I'm reporting you to the police for stealing." or "Stand there and take your punishment or pack your stuff and leave!" or many other things that would work. Strong kid or not, obviously this mother is a responsible caring mother who puts her foot down, otherwise he wouldn't be standing on the sidewalk with a sign. Nope, I think this is exactly what we think it is.

Okay... for those that think that humiliation is a form of "abuse"--look at it this way:

His "friends"--the crowd of people that he's hanging out with that could get him to steal--are probably going to shun him from this point on.

That is NOT a bad thing. I've seen over and over again where the group of kids is the issue, not the individual kids in the group. The kids are great kids, and smart, for the most part--they just spend too much time trying to impress each other.

So--Mom is standing there, and if you think about it, it's not exactly NON-humilation for HER--her son is a thief and her baby-daddy is in prison. What does that say about HER?

So--she embarrasses the poor kid, and herself by extension. So what? At least she's doing SOMETHING. And she's not beating the kid, and she's not wanting to "sign her rights away because she can't control him". She hasn't given up on him, like so many of the parents we see coming here on AMHD. Just the fact that she's there, with him, to me shows that she loves him, and wants him to do better than his daddy. The fact that she hasn't washed her hands of him and called the cops and sent him to juvy is as good as a hug, in my opinion.

And I bet when the day of standing in the street is done, she DOES give him a hug, and tell him that she loves him, and that she just wants him to do better than she has, and his daddy has, because that's what parents who love their children DO--they want their kids to do better than they have.

I say ---Good for her! In the long run, this won't hurt the kid. Some of my worst punishments growing up were the most humiliating--but guess what? They were also some of the best lessons learned for life situations!

Know what the biggest problem I see with this entire thread is? The fact that ALL of us have judged this situation by one picture, one minute of this family's life. (and yes, I know that's been pointed out previously).

To those that are horrified and think that this is a form of abuse, I have a question for you: if you, personally, saw this happening, would you call CPS? Would you think this is a horrible enough punishment, that will scar the kid for life, that you would call in some form of authorities?

If so--would you try to get more info first, or would you just report what you're seeing, the way you'd (not you personally, but you in general) would call about a parent hitting a child in a shopping mall?

If not--why not? I mean you think this is horrible, awful, terrible, and scarring--why the heck Wouldn't you call the authorities? And if you wouldn't call the authorities, is it really THAT bad?

Great answer Synnen, right on the nose. I wish I could have expressed myself as well as you have. Wonderful, truly wonderful! :)