What is your criteria for allowing freedom to a person to choose for themselves?
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What is your criteria for allowing freedom to a person to choose for themselves?
How about someone under 18 years old should not be having sex because it is bad for their mental health and possibly bad for their physical health. Tell them what the laws are in their state; what is illegal. That sex, even protected sex, is not without risk, and that disease can result from sexual activity even with a condom. However when you are older and finally decide to have sex use a condom and birth control and should both those methods fail you remember that the morning after pill is available. Talk about STDs how you get them and what STDs a condom helps guard against and which ones it doesn't help guard against. Talk about abortion with facts and figure stress that it is a woman's right what she does with her body but at the same time stress that it's one of the last things that you want to put your body through. Talk about other options instead of abortion, adoption and what is the process for that. Talk about what happens if decide to keep the child. Talk about groups that can help. Give them more knowledge until they just don't want to hear anymore about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by ETWolverine
It is getting off topic, but there is a big difference teaching girls and boys about healthy lifestyles and calling them "fat". Insulting someone about their weight doesn't motivate them to change, instead, you teach them to love themselves and treat their bodies with respect by putting good things into it. And for the record, I agree 100% that we should be teaching young girls to not have sex at a young age; it can have more than just physical effects that last long into their adult life.Quote:
Originally Posted by ETWolverine
I think sex ed programs should be age appropriate. An instructor should not stand before a group of school kids of ANY age and tell them how great sex is; they should stick to medical data. When kids are young, teach them about human anatomy as they get older, their sexual organs, as they get older, what sex is, the consequences it can have, and so on. So the "truth" to me, is to provide the kids with factual information; REAL STD statistics, REAL teen pregnancy rates, REAL failure rates of condoms and the pill, all the while reinforcing that if you simply don't "do it" NONE of that stuff will happen to you. To me, kids that age who are having sex or who plan to have sex are going to find out it feels good; but the ones who are on the fence about it might be swayed by an authority figure telling them how great it is. So leave that part out. My teachers never mentioned it. As far as 12 - 13 year olds, in my opinion they should be taught about their sexual organs, what sex is, and what the consequences are if they have sex at this young age. Instructors at that age should rely mostly on reasons NOT to do it, things to do instead of having sex, and reinforce that they have their whole adult lives to be sexually active, enjoy life without it, as it can complicate things especially at such young ages.Quote:
No question. Knowledge is power. But what do you call truth?
It is definitely true that sex is fun and feels good. It is true that sex can make a couple very happy. It is also true that one can have sex with condoms and birth control and avoid the consequences of their actions, ei: disease and pregnancy. And finally, it is true that if these fail, there's always abortion to fall back on. All true. But is that the truth that we want 10-13 year old girls to know?
Or do we want them to know the truth that 10-13 year olds should not be having sex, that it is bad for their mental and physical health to have sex so young, that it forever changes a person to have sex, that sex, even protected sex, is not without risk, and that disease can result from sexual activity?
I'd prefer that kids that young get the latter version of the truth. Along with my moral/religious teachings, of course.
As a side note, I was a virgin on my wedding night at the age of 29, and so was my wife at 27. It CAN be done, and in fact, in our religious community, it is the norm. Pre-marital sex is the exception to the rule in the Orthodox Jewish community, and that is the result of an ongoing cooperation between teachers, parents and religious leaders to spread the word about abstinance to the youth of our community. It is an ongoing campaign to teach abstinence to kids, and it works to stem the tide of ALL pre-marital sex in the community, not just teen and pre-teen sex. It is not 100% effective, but it is a lot more successful than the public school system is at preventing teen sex. And it is virtually 100% effective at preventing teen pregnancy and STDs in the Orthodox Jewish community.
And by the way, I can guarantee that Orthodox Jewish kids know as much about the biology and physiology of reproduction and about adolescent changes in human physiology as any kid who has taken sex ed in a public high school. Probably more. They are living in the real world and come about their early sexual knowledge in the same ways as other kids do... from peers. They are not deprived of knowledge about sexuality because they have been taught and practice abstinance as a way of life.
So I don't really buy the idea that kids need to be taught how to have sex safely in order to keep from being confused about their bodies. There are whole communities out there that practice sexual abstinance before marriage and still seem to be well educated on the subject.
Elliot
Congrats to you for waiting until marriage; I know one couple who did the same, so yes, it can be done. I think you've hit the nail on the head when you mention the Jewish community, the parents and the teachers being involved in sex education and reinforcing that waiting is best. Kids learn from example; it's hard for a young girl who's mom sleeps around her older siblings sleep around, and her school provides her with mis-information to make the decision to not have sex. But you also mention that the kids in your community know about biology and physiology, so it's fair to assume your community isn't telling teens that HIV is spread via sweat and tears (which some "abstinence only" programs claim)? That's the difference - the teens in your community are given accurate, factual information, with a strong emphasis on how important it is to wait. The reason I think kids need to be taught about safe sex to avoid confusion about their bodies is because so many kids out there don't have a strong community backing, or active parents. In many households sex is something you simply don't talk about. So if the school only teaches abstinence, with no information about prevention methods, and a teen has sex anyway, they are ill-equipped to make that decision. You have to know what a condom is in order to use it; you have to know the pull out method is HIGHLY unreliable in order to NOT use it. Kids and their peers put out all sort of bad information, and since many parents won't teach their kids about sex, the schools have to, and they should go about it factually and with cold, clinical detail, so it doesn't come across as being this wonderful passionate thing that you should go do behind the bleachers.
For the record, my school taught abstinence and prevention methods. We were told abstinence is the only way to prevent pregnancy and STDs, and that while condoms prevent most STD's, they don't prevent all. Then they showed us pictures and went into detail about the diseases you can get even if you do use a condom. There was heavy influence in my class about STDs, how they are painful, embarrassing, and some are incurable. We were taught that condoms are good, but not perfect, and the pill only prevents pregnancy, not infection, and only pregnancy if you take it correctly. We were not given lessons on how to perform oral sex, anal sex, or any sort of sexual positions. We were not told that sex is great, we were told that at our ages it can cause a lot of problems and there are alternatives to having sex when you are in a relationship. I remember clearly the teacher saying that statistically she knows some of us in the room (about 30 kids) have had sex, but most have not. She said for those who have, this is info you need to know if you are going to continue to have sex, but it's never too late to tell your boyfriend or girlfriend you don't want to do it anymore. My school also had a "baby think it over" I think it was called; it was an electronic doll that behaves in similar fashion to a real baby. It cries and needs to be soothed, it's head must be supported, it must be "fed". There is a computer which tracks how long the baby cried, if it was shaken, if it was neglected and so on. A girl in one of my classes as a freshman talked about how badly she wanted a baby; the teacher let her take this "baby" home for a weekend. She came back on Monday and said she was never having kids! :) More schools need those dolls...
Jillian,
I have seen similar things to the dolls as you describe. I have also seen schools give kids a "pregnancy belt" to simulate what it's like to carry around the weight of pregnancy on your stomach. Kids had to wear that over a weekend to simulate pregnancy. (In one case, it was given to a group of guys as an experiment to highten their sensitivity for what women have to go through in life. :) That must have been some experiment.)
I think it's a great idea. I think that letting the kids understand the consequences of their actions makes them more responsible and better educated and less likely to do something incredibly stupid. I'd love to see those dolls become a regular part of a 9th-grade sex-ed curriculum.
Elliot
ETW, I forgot about the pregnancy belt, those are a good idea too. I agree that the dolls should be present in every school, and making them a part of the sex-ed program isn't a bad idea. I bet you'd change a lot of kids' minds just from letting them take the baby home overnight...
My senior year I took sociology; we were required to carry a 10lb sack of flour around for an entire week, sharing our duties with our "spouse" (we also had to plan our weddings). It sort of drives the point home about always having something to lug around, but it doesn't cry, poop or eat. Still was a big pain in the rear though...
You can't just teach a student just abstinence. I mean there was a study in Africa done about this and all the did was teach their students abstinence and the rate of teen pregnancy, and spread of HIV/AIDS rose. So apparently JUST teaching them abstinence doesn't work. Also, the sex-ed classes don't work, but its not like they are promoting sex. They are installing that STDs are probably going to be in your future if you don't have safe sex or no sex at all. The whole point of sex-ed is to install health sexual habits, whether you're having sex or not.
Now to get back to the actual topic, I've heard that the student has to have parental consent to get into the place where the pills are being given. It is the parents duty to know what is in the place, so that they can give consent or not. And anyway its not like the student is going to get the parent's signature anyway. Most likely the student will forget about it, and then just forge their parent's sign. Which is basically giving the student the rite to have the pill without parental consent. Is it not?
Dr Ernest Rietzschel (Ghent University, Belgium) reported the findings at the American Heart Association (AHA) 2007 Scientific Sessions last week
Otherwise healthy young women who are past users of OCs have a 20% to 30% increased risk for carotid or femoral atherosclerosis vs women who have never used OCs. The investigators suggest that women should avoid using OCs for longer than needed and that clinicians should educate women using OCs about cardiovascular risk.
Has anyone looked at the potential side effects of oral contraceptives
For example
Ortho-Novum side effects (Norethindrone and Ethinyl Estradiol) and drug interactions - prescription drugs and medications at RxList
Thrombophlebitis
Arterial thromboembolism
Pulmonary embolism
Myocardial infarction
Cerebral hemorrhage
Cerebral thrombosis
Hypertension
Gallbladder disease
Hepatic adenomas, carcinomas or benign liver tumors
This is a medical issue, not a school issue. Therefore it requires parental consent.
How is it that girls and young women are put at potential harm, and same age boys are not?
I remember it the mid eighties when airbags were mandated. They made intuitive sense.
A couple of years later small people [ women and children primarily ] were being killed or maimed by them. Now we have the warnings.
Birth control at this young age may "make sense " to some people, but lets look at all the potential consequences.
I am from Maine - moved to CT at the beginning of 2007.
I am on the fense on this one. I am all for the entire thought behind it and the reasoning. We were one of the first schools to hand out condoms. Unfortunately, many parents do not talk to their kids about sex. Because of teen-sex we opened a childcare center in the school that was run by a teacher and the students - it became an actual class where students would watch the babies for a period and each period brought a new group of kids to watch the babies - under the supervision of the teacher of course. It was a wonderful program that allowed the mothers to still attend high school. I am all for protecting these kids against pregnancies and diseases.
The only problem I see is dealing with the whole hormonal thing. I am a PCOS educator and developed PCOS at the age of 8. Birth control hormones are not healthy for prediabetics. While it may induce menstrual it puts the user at more risk factors with insulin issues, cysts, etc. The other thing is that using these hormones at young ages can interfere with natural growth. So for these reasons I say no.
But the staggaring truth is, kids are having sex younger and younger. The average age is 9 and does not necessarily indicate abuse. Sadly, we as a society have become so anesthetized to sex - its in our commercials, TV shows, movies, video games, conversations, magazines, books - name it. It's no wonder more and more people, including kids, are having casual sex or experimenting - in fact many kids, in fear of pregnancy, will perform pre-sex, not believing that they are at risk of STD's regardless of vaginal/penal connection. Blame society, not just the parents for lack of education. Sex is unavoidable. A child would have to live in a world without a TV, radio or literature to get away from the sexual influences of our society. It's really quite a shame.
Angi Ingalls
PCOS in ConnecTion
[email protected]
Several other issues, 1. use and not use of birth control is also a religoius issue, so by giving them out and recommending their use do they cross the line of teaching against a religioius belief, crossing the line of church and state.
Since some religious groups teach against their use, does the use of tax payer dollars used to give them to kids violate the rights of the people who do not support their use. Could these pills be privately funded.
What is the schools liablity for giving prescription medication to a minor child, can the parent ( legal guardian) hold the school liable for any medical side effects these can cause.
Religion; unless educating about different religions; does not belong in public school. If a parent is concerned about what is being taught to their child they do not wish their child to learn, there are options for them - private school, homeschooling programs, etc. But just because a set of parents are against it for religious reasons does not make it fair to those that are not religious or who are open. It is a public school and issues should be to accommodate all, it doesn't mean everyone has to participate.
I am not a lawyer but I am willing to be Yes, a parent can hold a school liable if something should go wrong. I am sure this will be evident in the near future and we will see lawsuits on this. If you can sue a doctor for malpractice, imagine what you can do to a school nurse who perscribes birth control hormones to a child.
My answer for a lot of problems? I think every parent should have to complete so-many hours of Parenting Classes per child. It would help our society so much including discovering abuse in the process. I see no downside to this idea. Imagine all the good it would do.
Angi Ingalls
PCOS in ConnecTion
[email protected]
Yes, but the schools ( if the post is even right, did not care to check) the schools are doing this without telling or asking the parents. Also not all parents have an option to private school or home schoolng a working family where mom and dad both have to work ( home schooling only works when only one parent words) or one parent familys.
But the schools to give them out should require the parents permission, and unless the family are below certain income levels the parents and/or the parents insurace should have to pay for it.
As a parent, I know that if a middle school child is being provided birth control pills and it's my child, there are two misjudgement issues to be sorted out. One involves my own accountability and responsibilities as the parent, and the second involves the school that shall be hearing from my lawyer.Quote:
Originally Posted by animedude09
Bobby
The pill is being distributed through a clinic (not the school nurse) the parent has authorized to treat their child, and the child must undergo a medical exam prior to receiving the prescription, just like at a regular doctor's office. So kids can't just walk in an grab a pack of pills from a bowl on the table in the nurse's station; there is a prescription and process for obtaining it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck
So the parent says, "Yes, my child can be treated by the clinic" and then the child can get the pill without the parent's knowledge. So private school or home school wouldn't have to be necessary to make sure your kid doesn't have access to the pill - just don't sign the clinic treatment form.
I'm not sure where the funding comes from for the clinic, but I doubt it comes from the school budget. It might be a county supported thing (like a regular county clinic) or it might be a private institution contracted for space with the school. There's more info about all of this in an article I posted in a similar thread... not sure where it is though!
Here's the article I mentioned, for anyone who wants to read it:
FOXNews.com - School Board Approves Birth Control Prescriptions at Maine Middle School - Health News | Current Health News | Medical News
Quote:
At King Middle School, birth control prescriptions will be given after a student undergoes a physical exam by a physician or nurse practitioner, said Lisa Belanger, who oversees Portland's student health centers.
Students treated at the centers must first get written parental permission, but under state law such treatment is confidential, and students decide for themselves whether to tell their parents about the services they receive.
Five of the 134 students who visited King's health center during the 2006-07 school year reported having sexual intercourse, said Amanda Rowe, lead nurse in Portland's school health centers.
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