If you need a book to give you morals then there may be another problem present. I really don't need anyone to tell me not to murder or sleep with my neighbour's wife or respect my parents.
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If you need a book to give you morals then there may be another problem present. I really don't need anyone to tell me not to murder or sleep with my neighbour's wife or respect my parents.
For me to say that them teaching of any other God than mine- the God the of the Bible, Jesus Christ, then I would either be saying "I dont believe what i say i do"
Or "I do believe everything in the bible, I just dont care if youre going to hell"
And I do.
But so many Christians settle, and compromise, and submit, which really makes you wonder, doesn't it?
So in answer to your question: Our schools should teach of the God of Jacob and Isaac.
For me to say any different would mean I don't care
-When I do
I wish prayer was back in school, also. I remember Bible study when I was in school - although it was gone by the time I was in second grade.
But, I think the way the world is today - it wouldn't work - just because, we would all argue about "Who's God - your's or mine". And nothing would get accomplished.
We teach our child about God, we are proud that at age 6 she has asked Jesus into her heart as her one true Saviour.
I believe the Bible is a guide on how to live your life. I wish more people did also.
excon brings up a good point.
Which God should we pray too? And in choosing one God, are we then saying that that is THE only God? I am not sure if that is the message we should be sending.
Besides, religion is a personal choice and each personal has a different relationship with their God. To place it in the classroom would generalize religon. Making it far less a personal relationship, and more a mandated action
I'm going to play devil's advocate with you, Snave.
Prayer in public schools is a violation of the separation of Church and state. State meaning "my taxpayer money" and Church being "a select church, usually Christianity".
If you want your kids to pray, send them to a parochial school. I'm not paying taxes to teach kids to pray. Better yet, teach them to pray at home! Teachers are overworked enough as it is, without making them pray to a god they may or may not believe in. *Teachers* should not be the ones teaching kids morals. That's the job of *parents*.
Also... I think that fewer people would have a problem with prayer in schools if it weren't for the fact that the people pushing for it are predominantly Christian. How about... we pray to Hindu gods on Monday, and have Buddhist prayers on Tuesday. Wednesdays would be for Muslim prayers, and Thursdays for pagans. That would leave Fridays open for atheists to just have a moment of silence for non-prayer. How does that work for you? It's prayer!
Your statistics are skewed. There's a huge decline in parental responsibility in the timeframe that you're mentioning as well.
As far as the rest goes... here's a quote for you:
The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they allow disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children now are tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers. `
That quote is usually attributed to Socrates. Socrates was around before Christ was even reputed to be born. The problems you're listing aren't new problems. They're not even problems that were fixed for a while by the conversion of half the world to Christianity. Heck, people who call themselves Christian have murdered and abused and disrespected authority for hundreds of years!
Personally, I'd pull my kid out of any public school that did have prayer. That, or I'd fight to have my non-majority (and any other religion I could think of) prayers heard as often as Christian prayers.
And this is why we won't live to see prayer back in school...
I agree with you Syn.
Agreed 100% with Synnen. The culprit is not lack of prayer in school it's the steady decline in quality parenting.
No one can agree on anything. Religion is just one of them. As a Christian - I would have a problem if my daughter was asked to pray to Budda or any other god. Her one true saviour is Jesus Christ. So, I would pull her out of a school that required her to pray to anyone else but Him.
We are so divided.
Look, me offending 1000 people is worth it if one believes. A persons soul is always going to be more important. People are going to get offended, especially in this country, where ever word is tact filled and people never really convey the message they want.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuscany
Something I know is that you can never argue anyone into your belief system, you can never force it either...
But to say that its completely against the rules?
Christianity is not cigarette smoke...
Its not going to hurt you
Let the kids pray, and read their Bible.
If you want to say don't let the teachers preach to the kids
That's fine.But don't condemn a child or teen for loving their God, or wanted to let someone else see what they have found
I am a devote Catholic. But, I agree with Syn. School is a place for learning, not for worship. UNLESS you chose to send your child to a school that combines both together. I would be personally offended if any person told my child how, when, or who to worship. It is not fair to ask those who do not believe to pray. Just as it is not fair to ask someone to pray to a God that is not their God.
I don't think pushing religon on anyone, in schools or door to door, or any other way is right. Religon is a personal choice.
Well at least you understand where we come from. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by NowWhat
School districts cannot offend people like an individual can. And they cannot chose one religon over another. That is a form of prejudice.Quote:
Originally Posted by SnaveLeber
Im not saying take a particular time and devote it to prayer, Im saying that locally 3 teens have been suspended from schools in my region because they were reading their bible or praying. Granted parents are not doing their jobs...
But don't punish the kids who do have good parents
Hello again, snave:
Offending me is a hell of a way to enlighten me. In fact, what you want to do is indoctrinate me. I don't like being offended. I offend back.
excon
Last year, in kindergarten - my daughter would pray at snack time. Ask God to bless her food. Her teacher told her not to because it wasn't "allowed". (some of you may have heard this story before) We told her to just say it in her head - we didn't want to go toe to toe with the school.
At Thanksgiving this year we had a "feast" in the classroom - her teacher was going to have them say grace - but there is a muslim child in the class and she didn't want to offend anyone. So we didn't.
My daughter did however say her grace.
She asks people all the time if they go to church or if the believe in Jesus. Keep in mind she is 6 - if they say no, she tells them they are going to go to hell.
That is how she has been taught. That is what we believe. And kids are brutally honest - I do not tell her not to say these things - because if I tell her not to, does it tell her that she should be ashamed of what she is learned or that what she has learned is wrong?
I am not sure where you live, but where I teach if students read a bible during lunch or study hall that is their personal time and they can do what they want.
Snave, how could they be suspended? All they were doing was praying and reading? Out loud or to themselves? Were they attempting to preach?
I don't get it.
Is that a lawsuit waiting to happen?
I agree with you too Synnen. I was thinking along the same line.
Separation of Church and State is one of the basic founding priniciples, and considered the most important one to the founding fathers, of the United States. It is part of the First Amendment to our Constitution.
Our religions, our values, our moral code of conduct, must be taught at home.
Snavelover, I think the problems you are pointing out are problems because we seem to be lacking in parental skills more than anything else. People expect teachers to be babysitters and teach children right from wrong. That is the real problem. Some parents are not spending the time with their children necessary, or others are lacking a moral compass themselves. I have seen supposedly religious people, lie, steal, cheat, covet,. all the sins. There has been a breakdown in traditional values, not from lack of religion being taught in schools, but from parental guidance and teaching. Parental responsibility seems to be in crisis in this country.
The problem with that is you don't have a monopoly on what saving a soul is about. You think you do, but you don't. I don't either, NO ONE does!Quote:
Originally Posted by SnaveLeber
I've said this before. I do not believe that the teachings of Jesus Christ, teachings that spoke about love and peace, about the golden rule, can be reconciled with a teaching that says either you worship this way or you will be damned.
Yes, let the kids pray, but at an appropriate time in an appropriate place. A PUBLIC school is not such a time or place.Quote:
Originally Posted by SnaveLeber
I agree, but aren't you doing just that? Aren't you saying we should condemn someone for loving their god if it isn't the one you believe in?Quote:
Originally Posted by SnaveLeber
Again I agree as long as the person is interested. But too often its trying to force what they found.Quote:
Originally Posted by SnaveLeber
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