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Quote:

Originally Posted by califdadof3

I understand they arent for everyone and respect that.

Hello again, dad:

My story:

My dad managed Dave Cooks Sporting Goods in Denver, and brought home two brand new 22's every weekend during the summer... I was 12. We'd go jack rabbit hunting in the eastern plains... One day, when my dad I were taking a breather, a little bunny ran up to us and stopped. My dad pulled his .45 and blew the tip of his nose away. The bunny just stood there bleeding, so he shot him again...

I grew up being a hunter, and hunted for years.. I loved it, and then I didn't. That damn bunny kept cropping up in my memory, and hasn't gone away since.

Yeah... An excon and his bunny. Whoda thunk it? Now, let some sonofab!tch break into my house, and I'd have no trouble blowing him away. Do I need a doctor?

excon

No problem... Hunting isn't for everyone. You have the options of buying ready to cook meat these days.

I don't believe in killing animals just for the sake of killing them either. But things like vermin... and things like Deer and these have to be culled or overpopulation causes a host of secondary problems. Rabies, property destruction.. diseases for the surviving anmals.. etc. Which is the more humane path when you consider the alternatives?

Plus Deer make for good eating. But I'd have to be damn hungry to eat coyote.

Quote:

Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, dad:

My story:

My dad managed Dave Cooks Sporting Goods in Denver, and brought home two brand new 22's every weekend during the summer... I was 12. We'd go jack rabbit hunting in the eastern plains... One day, when my dad I were taking a breather, a little bunny ran up to us and stopped. My dad pulled his .45 and blew the tip of his nose away. The bunny just stood there bleeding, so he shot him again...

I grew up being a hunter, and hunted for years.. I loved it, and then I didn't. That damn bunny kept cropping up in my memory, and hasn't gone away since.

Yeah... An excon and his bunny. Whoda thunk it? Now, let some sonofab!tch break into my house, and I'd have no trouble blowing him away. Do I need a doctor?

excon

Actually your head is in the right place. No worries man.

Some people do eat coyote though. *shudders* which I don't think I could... I know there's people around here that do eat it.. they make the meat into peperoni type ugg..

I hate hunting! I especially hate it when people hunt just for the sheer fact of killing. Not for warmth, food or to stay alive. I also think snaring and trapping is disgusting and cruel. Wow, you out smarted an animal! I don't understand what satisfaction someone can get from that. But that's just MHO. I found a snare with a dead rabbit in it once, and the rabbit was only caught by his foot. So how long was he there before he suffered and died? My neighbors dog also got caught in a snare, he did die instantly, but I will NEVER get that image out if my head.

Hunting; whether for sport or survival, in my own opinion is an act of genetic dna, a sense of empowerment, a strategic situation with conflicting skills.

Genetic DNA- We have hunted for thousands of years, with the sole purpose of providing food, clothing and tools. This has been a way of life passed down from our fore-fathers and their fore-fathers and so on and so on... I believe we still have this ingrained in us to hunt and kill for the sake of meat, for the sake of clothing and tools. We as now-a-days these items are obtained in much eaier ways it's still in us to take part in hunting.

Sense of empowerment- The human moral is set to want to feel successful and victorious. When you hunt and successfully bag an animal this feeling is obtained. I don't beileve this is the sole purpose of hunting but it adds to the affect.

Strategic Situation- We are taught how to handle a firearm, we are taught the skills to track animals, understand their way of life, predict situations beased on animal tendencies and presumed actions. Hunting allows us to use these skills taught to us by mentors or our parents. Using a skill that is so nomadic yet important in our way of life. Eat or be eaten if you will.

The above are in now way the sole purpose of hunting. They are a collective thought from me on justifying why I hunt, why I feel it OK to kill an animal.

I do not agree with snaring as it presents torture to the situation. That same rabbit caught in a snare, I would have no problem shooting with a 12gauge shotgun.

Animals have did this for thousands of years as well. Do you disagree with a coyote who hunts and kills a white-tail? Granted it's for food but I eat the deer I kill. The only question I see here is the purpose behind humans hunting, our intentions and what drives us to do so. Do we have to have a reason? Do I need to justify myself?

Now, if someone was to just go shoot an animal and leave it there and not care to go get it and skin it, eat it, etc... then yes, I disagree.

I live in rural Nova Scotia, I grew up on wild meat, my daughter has grown up on wild meat, I guess I am not so opposed to hunting and eating, using the skin for a lively hood etc.. As I am just killing to kill. I don't want to get into this too much, because I don't want to insult someone I DO consider my friend on here. To kill coyote's because they have attacked is just wrong to me. It's like those people who have tigers and wild animals and make them do circus tricks, and when the animal lashes out, the animal gets killed. How fair is this? I think it's sickening. It's a wild animal, how do they expect it to act? I'm sorry I'm just venting...

I wasn't trying to argue with you specifically. Just providing my opinion on this matter. I also don't want to get into it with a friend, but I don't mind debating :)

Hello again:

Let's debate this: Utah has introduced legislation to have a state gun, just like a state flower or state tree. Is that a good thing?

excon

Oh, I didn't think you were arguing with me :) There has been an on going debate, and I just didn't want to have any hard feelings with a member here. Debate away! I was more specifically talking about the killing to kill issue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by excon

Hello again:

Let's debate this: Utah has introduced legislation to have a state gun, just like a state flower or state tree. Is that a good thing?

excon

Sure why not, Utah is known for their weirdness :p

I will answer with a question?

"Is it a bad thing?"

The society is so eager to pronounce something as good or bad without asking if it's bad or good at all.

Before asking if an idea is good. Ask if it is bad. What are the bad outcomes of having a State gun? Usually by answering the "is it a bad thing?", you usually get your answer for "is it a good thing?"

I don't think it's a bad thing, but then I grew up with and around guns. Maybe it will confirm to all us Canadians that you Americans really are gun lovers ;)

Edit: What I really wanted to say was gun yielding yahoo's, but I decided against it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ITstudent2006

"Is it a bad thing?"

Hello again:

I think it's a bad thing for government to glorify guns.

excon

I don't think it does. Budapest has a national dog, but I don't see it as glorifying dogs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aurora_Bell

I don't think it does. Budapest has a national dog, but I don't see it as glorifying dogs.

Hello again, Bella:

Of course, THAT is the question... If the state DIDN'T want to glorify guns, why mention them at all?

excon

Hmmm... I guess I would think it's just being patriotic, you know, the amendments or what ever, being able to bare arms... etc...

I think people need to be more responsible for their own actions, be responsible...

So if a state or Province mentions something they are automatically glorifying it? Why does Utah say they want a state gun? What does it represent to them?

Go Utah!. tell the paranoid gun grabbers where to stuff their opinions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aurora_Bell

Hmmm.... I guess I would think it's just being patriotic, you know, the amendments or what ever, being able to bare arms... etc...

So if a state or Province mentions something they are automatically glorifying it? Why does Utah say they want a state gun? What does it represent to them?

Hello again, Bella:

Well, it's MORE than just mentioning it. They're going to enshrine it as their state gun. If they just want to be patriotic, and pay homage to an amendment, why don't they make a state newspaper?

The Browning automatic in question, is made in Utah. They say, and I don't doubt it, that it is responsible for saving MORE lives during WWII, than any other gun. That's wonderful. I'm still not sure if that qualifies for the making of an entirely new category of state honored items, like trees and flowers.

excon

Hey there Exy:

After explaining that it was made in Utah and saved more lives, I am more for it then before. That to me, would be something to be proud of. But you are talking to a military brat here...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aurora_Bell

After explaining that it was made in Utah and saved more lives, I am more for it then before. That to me, would be something to be proud of. But you are talking to a military brat here...

Hello again, Bella:

And, you're talking a Vietnam vet, and gun lover. Plus, I LOVE history too, and I LOVE that Browning did his thing.

I'm just not sure that it's appropriate for a STATE to glorify a gun. I thought about that word "glorify" too, before using it... But, it's the right word.

Should New Mexico make the A-bomb its state A-bomb? It was invented there. It saved a bunch of American lives during WWII. It's STILL saving lives.

excon

Touché Exy. Touché.

Saved more lives... took more lives!

I think that the State should worry abut something more important as should the residence of the state.

I personally think glorifying this weapon will open a whole new can of worms! A can the state under-estimates.

Quote:

Originally Posted by excon

Hello again:

Let's debate this: Utah has introduced legislation to have a state gun, just like a state flower or state tree. Is that a good thing?

excon

Personally speaking I would be against it. It only highlights it and elevates it to a point where it becomes focused on. Don't get me wrong it's a great gun and yes I own one. But I also believe that gun ownership is a sacred right honored in our constitution and that in owning a gun its as individual as anything else someone might own. Its not for everyone. And the ones someone may choose is not for the person next to them. Its is choice to make that your comfortable with.

And if you don't know or didn't know what ex was talking about like me, here is an article on it.

Utah lawmakers propose M1911 as official state gun - Yahoo! News

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aurora_Bell

sure why not, utah is known for their weirdness :p

I don't think Utah is known for this 'weirdness', unless you have been reading something I haven't and that is unlikely because I read three nespapers a day, Toronto Star, New York Times and National Post (which is known for their wierdness). And several other magazines currently on the newstand which I subscribe too (not everyday but monthly when they come out).

And what the heck, everyone is focused on Egypt now and getting Americans and Canadians out of there. Talk about guns being involved, yes, lots of them. And, what is worse then the Cairo Museum being vandalized for gold. Curator says everything that has gone is gone forever. Guns are involved, yes, most definitely and this is not ended yet, possibly another war we all have to deal with.

Tick

Tick (oops too many ticks here !)

Tick, it was a joke... Hence the :p face.

I'm also working on the weirdness of Utah. I suspect the politicians in Utah have too much time on their hands.

And, yes, I think it glorifies guns to have a State gun.

On the other hand - would it cause anyone to run out and buy one? I don't think so.

And, yes, I have a carry permit and, yes, I would use a gun for personal protection - without a doubt.

I sad Utah is known for their weirdness only because of some of the laws they have, whether they practice them or not, some are just plain strange. It was a joke. Sorry guys. No more joking from me.

Dumb Laws in Utah. Crazy Utah Laws. We have weird laws, strange laws, and just plain crazy laws!

Also I was a HUGE fan of SLC punk when I was a teenager. I specifically remember them commenting on the weirdness of Utah.

I am by no means trying to defend Utah lawmakers. I think they should all wear orange wigs and big floppy shoes to eliminate any doubt as to what they represent.

But I do have a great deal of respect for John Browning , a Utah, native ,who has contributed a vast list of firearm designs and inventions that are revolutionary and a great contribution to our military and country.

In their twisted little minds , the legislators here in Utah chose this as a way to honor Mr. Browning , which he richly deserves.
Could they have done so in a different and more appropriate manner? Of course if given much thought , but that is where they are considerably lacking in almost all their work.

He was a great man, it is a great gun , and we are governed by bonehead wanna-be bonehead cowboys in Utah.
I think they meant well and will leave it at that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aurora_Bell

I sad Utah is known for their weirdness only because of some of the laws they have, whether they practice them or not, some are just plain strange. It was a joke. Sorry guys. No more joking from me.

SLC Punk rocks! I'm impressed Bella!

I live in Utah and have a great deal of my life. And I will tell anyone the same thing.
Utah is weird when it comes to laws and regulations. I live it and I know.

But having the beautiful and unique landscapes here, excellent hunting , fishing, camping, from a desert climate to high alpine all within half a days travel which includes some of the worlds best whitewater rafting , the BOnneville Salt Flats , and Canyonlands National Park... I can live with weird.

Oh I have seen pic's of Utah, looks absolutely gorgeous. Definitley a place I would LOVE to visit.

Thanks Martin :)

Was in Utah about two months ago. Didn't find the laws any more weird than any other State.

NY probably holds the record for weirdness - someone who ran for Governor a few months ago was the head of the (and I'm not making this up) Rent is Too Damn High party. No joke. He debated on TV. That was his ENTIRE party platform. The other candidates had to keep from laughing - and it showed.

I'm not sure ANY State can top that one!

Quote:

Originally Posted by JudyKayTee

Was in Utah about two months ago. Didn't find the laws any more weird than any other State.

NY probably holds the record for weirdness - someone who ran for Governor a few months ago was the head of the (and I'm not making this up) Rent is Too Damn High party. No joke. He debated on TV. That was his ENTIRE party platform. The other candidates had to keep from laughing - and it showed.

I'm not sure ANY State can top that one!

I saw that guy, had a white beard and stash. He was very funny, I enjoyed him he gave me a good laugh.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JudyKayTee

Was in Utah about two months ago. Didn't find the laws any more weird than any other State.

NY probably holds the record for weirdness - someone who ran for Governor a few months ago was the head of the (and I'm not making this up) Rent is Too Damn High party. No joke. He debated on TV. That was his ENTIRE party platform. The other candidates had to keep from laughing - and it showed.

I'm not sure ANY State can top that one!

The rent is too damn high party, I love it.

No state holds the title for weird. It's everywhere you look for it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stringer

I saw that guy, had a white beard and stash. He was very funny, I enjoyed him he gave me a good laugh.

I figured he couldn't be worse than some of the Governors we've already had - and it DID appear he had put some thought into his party platform.

Too bad he lost (but he DID get some votes).

Quote:

Originally Posted by JudyKayTee

I'm not sure ANY State can top that one!

Im not sure if NY takes the top of the cake or not. Lets not forget California is world renown for its weirdness. Not just in the laws either. Did you see the candidate list for govenor when the old govenor was kicked out? The one that put Arnie in the head seat. It was insane.

Need I start talking about Illinois and especially Chicago here... please, I don't want to start.

Canada has some pretty strange laws too.

I still don't agree with this proposed "State Gun"! I think it will cause more issues. Am I taking anything away from Mr. Browning? Of course not, but if we honor every person who's done something good for this country we'd have state guns, state cars, state knives, state this, state that etc...