I called a breeder in October of 2011 and wanted to put a deposit on a malamute puppy due in the spring of 2012. The breeder said that she also had a litter due in November so I had the choice of which litter I preferred. I talked to my husband and we decided the November litter would be great timing. I sent a $100 deposit to be on the waiting list. Well, there were no puppies in November, the dam was not actually pregnant. There were no litters in the spring; although between December and July there were 5 occasions that she thought one of the females might be in heat or expecting. Each time my hopes of a puppy were raised and then dashed when puppies were not born. In November of this year I received an email saying they had recently bred one of the females and to expect puppies in about 7 weeks. It’s been 9 weeks to date and no puppies or any further information from the breeder. I have not contacted her this time because I just wanted to see how long it would take her to contact me. In the past, I was extremely excited and would ask for updates as time went along. Now I want to just get my money back after too many false hopes. There is no signed contract other than an email stating there is a $100 deposit required to be on the waiting list; it is non-refundable but does go toward the purchase of the pup. I think this is a little ridiculous by now. Does anyone think I have grounds for asking for my deposit back?

Probably; just ask. If they say no, then file small claims. If you win, you get the filing fee as part of the award. If you are in different states, you have a problem, although many courts allow for the case to be resolved without appearing in court - IF the defendant agrees to pay.

Have you done online research on the reliability of the breeder?

The breeder is in the same state. I researched as much as I could and couldn't find anything negative. Of course website has a great selection of testimonials.
I guess one of my concerns is, if I ask for the deposit back, for the said reasons, does that seem as though I'm backing out of the deal which would indicate I lose the deposit? I had never done this before so I didn't think to ask about time frame. Live and learn.

Many courts consider a time frame that was unstated to be no more than a year.
Small claims anyway, where judges have leeway to make judgments without necessarily quoting statutes - I've seen it. This is $100 after all, and I can see you winning this in a heartbeat. A 'deposit' that doesn't result in delivery is no longer considered non-refundable. I would write a firm message to the breeder saying this. If the filing fee is $50 in your state, they stand to lose $150. Don't wimp out on this. For all you know, they are running a scam and all the testimonials are fake. Or if not, they are strapped for cash and are taking more deposits than they have pups, and giving them to the most threatening buyers first.

I'm not a legal expert, but I have dealt with breeders before. The main issue I see here is that you don't seem to have a fixed date for when you'll get a puppy. In other words, the contract says $100 deposit which goes towards the purchase of a puppy. It doesn't say when you'll get that puppy. If the contract had clearly stated "One hundred dollar deposit for puppy to be born November 2012", and no puppies were born, then I think you'd have a case to get your money back. As it stands, it's a grey area, since she could still fulfill her end of the contract, since there's no set date.

In other words, I agree with Joy. Find out what time frame she has to fulfill her end of the contract. November 2012 was only 2 months ago. You may have to give her at least a year in order to produce a puppy for you to purchase.

Actually the initial deposit was given in October of 2011 for a puppy that was due in November of 2011. So it's been 15 months. Still I can see some difficulty since a time frame was not specified.

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Originally Posted by Sherwinkle

Actually the initial deposit was given in October of 2011 for a puppy that was due in November of 2011. So it's been 15 months. Still I can see some difficulty since a time frame was not specified.

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So initially you put a deposit on a puppy due in 2012, but she told you she had a litter due in November of 2011?

Sorry, Since you mentioned 2012, I thought you meant November 2012.

If it's been over a year and no puppy, then I would say yes, ask for the deposit back. If she says no, you can take it small claims, and hope that you win.

If you tell me your general location I may be able to help you find a legitimate breeder in your area. I don't need your town, just your state, or province, or other (since this is an international site), and the breed, malamute? I would also urge you to check out your local shelter, or breed specific shelters. You may be able to find a purebred puppy to rescue, instead of going to a breeder. There are breed specific shelters all over the world, all purebred dogs looking for a home, many of them under the age of 2, some even puppies.

I would also start some serious research into the reputation of this breeder, since you give no indication of how you found them, or how far away they are. Scams are indeed prevalent. Some people call all the vets in the area of the breeder as a start, but you can also keep googling, and sooner or later blogs appear if there are scammed people.
And I would tell them this too. If you aren't firm they will walk all over you (if they are scamming) and even start telling you they don't like your threatening tone, etc, to get you to back off.

That was part my fault. It was apparently harder than I thought to write clearly about a chain of events. When I sent my deposit in October of 2011, I thought her first litter was due in the spring but that's when she told me they were expecting a litter the following month (Nov. 2011). We hadn't planned on getting one quite so quickly but were happy about it.

I've never written on a forum before so I appreciate everyone's responses.

Do you know if her puppies sell quickly? The reason I ask, even though there are no puppies, people purchase puppies by specific breedings and sometimes they will be sold before they are born. Maybe you are dead last on the waiting list? That also would be worth looking into.

Apparently my lengthy answer on the other thread concerning contracts and dog breeding didn't satisfy the OP?

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Originally Posted by JudyKayTee

Apparently my lengthy answer on the other thread concerning contracts and dog breeding didn't satisfy the OP?

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Sorry, after I posted my question on the other thread I saw it was an other one so I thought I had to start a new thread. Forum newbie. Anyway, I just read your response on the other thread. I'll probably just give up on the deposit and find a shelter dog. Thank you!

I wish you wouldn't, for the sake of others who might be scammed.
Or tell us who this breeder is, if you don't mind.
One of hundreds of us might know people who know people who live next door...

Joy, I've come across this before in the scope of my "job." The way the contract is written is the problem and, yes, there are scammers out there. It is SO important to know the background, the history of the breeder if a person decides to buy from a breeder.

These contracts routinely say that the deposit is on a list of people "eligible" to purchase a puppy from the next litter. I have a male and female, both neutered/spayed. In theory I could hand you a contract and take your deposit on their next litter - you'd be waiting a very long time. Could you prove fraud? In my case (with two neutered dogs), yes. BUT if you are in another State it would cost you more than $100 to get $100.

And we all know how I feel about breeders.

But, yes, this is a scam, including in my area.

The breeder in this case didn't violate the contract - the deposit is to be placed on a list. The OP is on a list!

And to the OP - sorry if I jumped on you. This happens all the time. People don't like one answer so they post again on another Board. You are the exception - and I appreciate the explanation and, again, sorry I jumped on you.

Aside from one person taking a breeder to court (I have twice seen a court award a deposit back if it was more than a year old), there is the cumulative reporting to local law enforcement and blogs. Why not stop this?
This breeder might be a grey area scammer who does have pups, but who takes 100 or more deposits for each one, and who counts on a good number of people giving up. 100 x 100 = 10,000, not small change.

I appreciate the sincere responses that I've received. I'm a bit conflicted here. I don't feel right in naming the breeder online since I don't think she's a scammer. I visited her kennel and saw the dogs that she has and they seem well taken care of and have had litters in the past. My main question was if anyone felt I had grounds to ask for my deposit back after such a long time with no puppy. My opinion now is that, since there was no time frame determined up front, my deposit keeps me on the waiting list for as long as it takes to get a puppy. Not the best arrangement but one that I can understand now from all the points of view you have all offered.
Thank you all.

"Joy," here's the legal hook. The $100 was, as I understand it, the fee to be placed on the waiting list. If/when the OP purchased a puppy, that $100 went toward the purchase. I do not believe it was a legal deposit - it doesn't appear that that is how the contract was written. And, again, the OP was placed on the list - probably not worth $100 but I don't see that the contract was broken.

And Sherwinkle, yes, I agree with you - you are on the waiting list for life!

Judy made the contract part very clear. I do have to ask, and Judy, you know I'm not a legal expert, but, since the breeder did give a specific date to the OP for a puppy, and it's been over a year since that date, does that help the OP at all?

Maybe court isn't the answer, but surely the OP can at least ask for her deposit back, and hope for the best? If not, then cough it up to experience and either find another breeder or go the rescue route.

Sherwinkle, my offer still stands. If you want a purebred you don't have to get one from a breeder. There are literally thousands of breed specific shelters all over the world, purebred dogs, sometimes even puppies. Unless you yourself are planning to breed, you don't need a show quality dog. You can get a dog in the breed of your choosing at a fraction of the cost you'd pay at a breeder, and you'd be saving a life. If you'd like me to help you find those shelters, I'm more than willing.

Thanks for your offer. I'll just keep looking locally. By the way, what is an OP?

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Originally Posted by Sherwinkle

Thanks for your offer. I'll just keep looking locally. By the way, what is an OP?

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OP = Original Poster. That's the person that posted the question. :)

Alty, I'd need the exact language in the contract. Certainly if it gives a time frame there's a chance the breeder is in violation. On the other hand if it's a deposit to be put on an open waiting list the OP is on the waiting list.

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Originally Posted by JudyKayTee

Alty, I'd need the exact language in the contract. Certainly if it gives a time frame there's a chance the breeder is in violation. On the other hand if it's a deposit to be put on an open waiting list the OP is on the waiting list.

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That's a very valuable lesson to learn, not just for the OP, but for anyone else looking to get a dog from a breeder. Thanks for explaining it Judy. :)

Alty, I've seen it and, as I said, I could write up similar contracts and get deposits. Is someone not in my area going to take me to Court for fraud? Probably not.

Breeders. Sigh. More importantly, people who choose to buy from breeders but don't do their homework.

Sigh again.

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Originally Posted by JudyKayTee

Alty, I've seen it and, as I said, I could write up similiar contracts and get deposits. Is someone not in my area going to take me to Court for fraud? Probably not.

Breeders. Sigh. More importantly, people who choose to buy from breeders but don't do their homework.

Sigh again.

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I agree. That's why I prefer the rescue route, or buying from a farmer that is just as good as a breeder, but isn't in it for the money.

My last pup, a great dog in every way, cost less than the deposit that the OP put down for a breeder pup. In fact, I could have adopted 3 puppies and had money left over. Just because he's not from a breeder, doesn't make him any less a great dog. Although when he's nosing through the garbage, I sometimes wonder. ;)

The farmer offered a money back guarantee if anything was wrong with the dog, and told me he'd take the dog back if I could no longer care for him. Just like a breeder. I'm still in contact with this man. I send him pictures of Rascal all the time. He sends me pictures of his farm, his dogs, and frankly, we may get our next puppy from him, after we buy an acreage. :)

Can I also suggest, before putting a deposit down on a puppy, go and see the actual litter and if possible, both parent dogs. Do not put a deposit down on a "potential" litter because a lot can go wrong and such a litter may never materialize.

It is pretty customary in my experience in buying dogs from breeders (I've bought three), to visit the breeder and see the puppies and at least the , if not the sire. The breeder should have a clean facility and the dogs should appear healthy and well cared-for as should the parent dogs.

Depending on the breed, some breeders will test the puppies and categorize them for particular purposes. For example, when I bought a golden retriever, the breeder reserved some of the puppies to be trained as service dogs, some for hunting, and some for family pets. I wanted a female and wanted a pet. She had three puppies fitting this description, and she accepted deposits from three families.

When I put the deposit down on this and my subsequent puppies, I was just guaranteed a female from a particular litter. All of these breeders asked me to wait to choose a specific puppy until the puppies were ready to go home. Then, new owners got picking priority based on the dates on their deposits. I still expressed my preference, which paid off twice. Both times, other families were picking before me and had trouble choosing. The breeders said, "well, if you can't decide, the other lady really has her heart set on this one" and in both instances, I got the ones I wanted.

I had a bad experience when I bought one puppy though because I was not educted enough about the breed and found it to have major health problems. I got emergency vet care before finding I couldn't keep the dog. The breeder refused to refund my money or cover the vet bills when I returned the puppy. I should have taken her to small claims.

I think it's a good idea to have a clause in your contract that you have up to 72 hours to take the dog to the vet, and if it has any serious medical problems, to return the dog for a full refund from the breeder. I did not insist on this and it cost me almost $1,000. The dog was both blind and deaf and I could not care for it properly given that I worked full time, so I had to give up the money and spend more for another dog.

Enjoy your puppy... once you find the right one, it will be great!